Is Pope Francis reaching out to the prodigals and are some of us feeling like the older brother?

[Cojuanco]

If they are “stunned” by hearing the Pope say that we should live the Gospel message first, that is simply appalling.

Hear, hear. That the pagans misconstrue it is one thing - they don’t know any better. But we ought to know better. I mean this is stuff Pope Benedict has been saying both as Pope and as CDF head in the 80s. Are we going to start doubting Benedict, too?

 

[Brendan_64]

I think we need to be careful not to overly criticise those who do not have quite the same enthusiasm for Pope Francis’s approach as we do.

We are all Catholics, we are all one. We cannot allow, or encourage factions. We must not foster a ‘them and us’ mentality within our own ranks. To do that is to aid the work of satan.

I love Pope Francis and his fresh approach and his emphasis on inclusion, social justice and welcoming the stranger, but others who are perhaps a bit reserved in judgement with regard to his approach are allowed to express their concerns. There is nothing wrong with them doing so. We ought to listen to each other’s point of view as brothers and respect each others views. We are all one family, let’s not turn on each other.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy,

I say this as one who has over the years found your posts to be generally right on and informative. I think perhaps it is your hearing. I can’t understand from reading the interview why you would get the feeling he is telling the prodigal, “No need to repent and come home”.
I just don’t see this. I think he’s saying that for a good portion of people today half the battle is just getting the wounded home so that they can be healed. To strain the example a bit maybe–there are a good number of people who were never home, never took their inheritance and squandered it. They have been deeply wounded by the world and they need to be called their true home and healed–only when they experience the love of Christ and see his sacrifice for them will they understand the need to repent. Additionally, I would think your concerns would be somewhat allayed by the section addressed to confessors where he clearly calls out those confessors who dismiss sin as not sin. I think your taking afront where none is to be found. Isn’t the question how we help people grow in holiness? How best lead them out of their sin? I don’t go to confession to be condemned–I go there to seek forgiveness for my sins–for the ones I continually struggle with–a good confessor helps me to over come these sins helps by providing guidance.

Do you disagree with the Popes analysis that we it is not prudent to treat high cholesterol before we stop the stop the blood gushing from the gaping wound in the leg? Many conservative Catholics have been doing what the Pope suggests all along. Acting in Charity and extending Christs mercy and calling one to a holy life are not somehow contrary to being a “conservative” Catholic. I dislike the labels conservative or liberal–either one is Catholic trying to adhere to Church teaching or one is not. I don’t find the labels helpful.

I guess I just don’t hear the Pope calling us to anything that other Popes have not, indeed to what Jesus and the Apostles called us to. Granted I am not as smart as you but I pray that my ears and my heart are open and that I am not deceived.

The Peace of Christ,
Mark

Mark-

First, many thanks, and I hope you are right about my hearing. As you know, I have been a faithful defender of the Church for a very long time. I’m not taking issue with anything you have said…I’m just using your kind words as a jumping off point for responding to so many others. So, this is not aimed at you.

Second, what I’m saying (and I’m having the same problem as Francis, apparently ), is that folks skim the headlines, hear a soundbite, or draw a quick conclusion based on incomplete information. And then they move on.

Rush Limbaugh uses the term “low information voters” to refer to the masses who really aren’t paying attention to what is going on in the world of politics. Someone else coined the term, but he’s the one I heard using it.

It’s great that the media is all abuzz over Francis. However, my concern is that the low information consumer of religious news (whether Catholic, Protestant or Atheist, etc.), will hear a snippet taken out of context, and that’s the last word they will ever hear. Consequently, that soundbite is really important, and if it is technically correct, but needs some clarification or context, well, I’m not sure a lot of folks are digging beyond the first paragraph or two - if that.

A lot of people have taken me to task in this thread. Okay…but am I wrong? A fair bit of ink is being poured out in explanation of what Francis “really means”. Someone asked me above

Honestly, who are the ones demanding clarification and deeper meaning?

To which I ask, then why are so many people providing clarification and deeper meaning?

Jimmy Akin clarifies what the pope said to an atheist here:
ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/

Michelle Arnold tries to counter the media headlines here:
catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-mission-of-pope-francis-sj

David L. Gray expresses concerns here:
davidlgray.info/blog/2013/09/pope-francis-reformation/

One final point if anyone questions what I have said: just read the articles on Francis’ statements on the Washington Post or any news website and then, more importantly, read the comments from readers about the article.

Lots of folks are having reactions to Francis, and not all of them are so positive.

 

[agnes_therese]

Is it really that simple?

:nope:

Unfortunately, it seems to be exactly that simple for some. A message of “live the Gospel, draw people to Jesus with care and mercy” just isn’t tough enough, doesn’t condemn sinners enough, is a slap in the face to those of us working against abortion, gay marriage, etc. – that’s what I’m seeing in many many posts here since The Interview.

It’s very sad. But Pope Francis knows exactly what he’s doing. As did the Holy Spirit at the conclave.

 

[clem456]

Mark-

First, many thanks. As you know, I have been a faithful defender of the Church for a very long time. I’m not taking issue with anything you have said…I’m just using your kind words as a jumping off point for responding to so many others. So, this is not aimed at you.

Second, what I’m saying (and I’m having the same problem as Francis, apparently ), is that folks skim the headlines, hear a soundbite, or draw a quick conclusion based on incomplete information. And then they move on.

Rush Limbaugh uses the term “low information voters” to refer to the masses who really aren’t paying attention to what is going on in the world of politics. Someone else coined the term, but he’s the one I heard using it.

It’s great that the media is all abuzz over Francis. However, my concern is that the low information consumer of religious news (whether Catholic, Protestant or Atheist, etc.), will hear a snippet taken out of context, and that’s the last word they will ever hear. Consequently, that soundbite is really important, and if it is technically correct, but needs some clarification or context, well, I’m not sure a lot of folks are digging beyond the first paragraph or two - if that.

A lot of people have taken me to task in this thread. Okay…but am I wrong?

Jimmy Akin clarifies what the pope said to an atheist here: ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/

Michelle Arnold tries to counter the media headlines here:
catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-mission-of-pope-francis-sj

David L. Gray expresses concerns here:
davidlgray.info/blog/2013/09/pope-francis-reformation/

One final point if anyone questions my concerns: read the articles in the Washington Post on Francis’ statements and then read the comments from readers about the article.

Lots of folks are have reactions to Francis, and not all of them are positive.

Just sayin’.

So the alternative is for the Pope to be someone he is not, to be afraid of being misunderstood, to be timid due to the distortions that will follow his words. And to be “careful” with his words, so as to not offend that Catholics!!! who cannot tolerate challenges and might somehow get the wrong idea about who Jesus is.
That’s part and parcel of the Christian life. He is not going to shrink from his vocation because he might be misunderstood.

The commentators you list are not apologizing for the pope or trying to make his words fit into their own worldview, they are discussing his words.

 

[Randy_Carson]

So the alternative is for the Pope to be someone he is not, to be afraid of being misunderstood, to be timid due to the distortions that will follow his words. And to be “careful” with his words, so as to not offend that Catholics!!! who cannot tolerate challenges and might somehow get the wrong idea about who Jesus is.
That’s part and parcel of the Christian life. He is not going to shrink from his vocation because he might be misunderstood.

The commentators you list are not apologizing for the pope or trying to make his words fit into their own worldview, they are discussing his words.

:nope:

Over and over and over again, Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers (among others) is having to explain what the Pope actually said and did because folks are not understanding.

Here are a few of Akin’s headlines:

**Did Pope Francis say atheists don’t need to believe in God to be saved? (9 things to know)

Is Pope Francis about to eliminate celibacy? (9 things to know and share)

What should we make of Pope Francis bowing when greeting people?

7 things you need to know about what Pope Francis said about gays

Did Pope Francis poke Protestants in the eye?

Did Pope Francis Say That Atheists Can Get to Heaven by Good Works?

How Should We Understand Pope Francis Washing Women’s Feet?**

Source: ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin

My point is made, and I am done with this.

May the Lord bless Pope Francis and the Church entrusted to his care.

 

[Jon_S_1]

:nope:

Over and over and over again, Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers (among others) is having to explain what the Pope actually said and did because folks are not understanding.

Here are a few of Akin’s headlines:

**Did Pope Francis say atheists don’t need to believe in God to be saved? (9 things to know)

Is Pope Francis about to eliminate celibacy? (9 things to know and share)

What should we make of Pope Francis bowing when greeting people?

7 things you need to know about what Pope Francis said about gays

Did Pope Francis poke Protestants in the eye?

Did Pope Francis Say That Atheists Can Get to Heaven by Good Works?

How Should We Understand Pope Francis Washing Women’s Feet?**

Source: ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin

My point is made, and I am done with this.

May the Lord bless Pope Francis and the Church entrusted to his care.

It seems to me EVERY episode of Catholic Answers Live, and nearly every blog post on Catholic Answers, as well as much of the forums is

CATHOLICS ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION ABOUT THE LITURGY SACRAMENTS DOCTRINES ETC!!!

Why the outrage now?

Were you outraged when homosexuals called in confused about church teaching inquiring why they could not receive communion if they were chaste?

Were you outraged when they wrote articles “explaining” Pope Benedict’s teachings?

And yet the same confusion is in this situation. It is in fact in EVERY situation. That is the limitation of language we can’t know for absolute certainty what the teacher is saying unless we are in their head.

 

[Starrsmother]

If you read his comments in America magazine, this is not what he is saying. It’s a long interview but worth the time to read it, so that we can get an accurate sense of what he is saying without the confusion of secular interpretations.
americamagazine.org/pope-interview

I wish I knew the one right way to approach some of these issues. As the mother of a daughter who is living in a same sex relationship–and even plans to marry her partner–I’ve tried everything I know from lecturing to cutting off all contact and even to where we are now (speaking but not about the elephant in the room). So far, all I know for sure is that my daughter would most likely never set foot in a Catholic church in her life unless it were to perhaps attend my funeral, because of her belief that the Catholic church has an anti-gay agenda. I might add that I don’t understand how it would be possible for the Catholic church NOT to have such an agenda, considering that homosexual acts are inherently sinful. I mean, if a young opposite sex couple go out together or date–or even, heaven forbid, were to live together–there is always at least a chance that it could end in their marriage. It can never end that way with my daughter and any woman she dates or goes out with.

At this point, for me anyway, I’m just going to step back and wait and watch. Jesus said that He’d never allow the gates of hell to prevail over His church. If Pope Francis thinks he has a better idea of how to bring someone like my daughter into the Catholic church and ultimately be healed, I will be more than willing to let him give it the old college try. Heaven knows, I don’t have a better idea of my own anymore…

 

[McCall1981]

I wish I knew the one right way to approach some of these issues. As the mother of a daughter who is living in a same sex relationship–and even plans to marry her partner–I’ve tried everything I know from lecturing to cutting off all contact and even to where we are now (speaking but not about the elephant in the room). So far, all I know for sure is that my daughter would most likely never set foot in a Catholic church in her life unless it were to perhaps attend my funeral, because of her belief that the Catholic church has an anti-gay agenda. I might add that I don’t understand how it would be possible for the Catholic church NOT to have such an agenda, considering that homosexual acts are inherently sinful. I mean, if a young opposite sex couple go out together or date–or even, heaven forbid, were to live together–there is always at least a chance that it could end in their marriage. It can never end that way with my daughter and any woman she dates or goes out with.

At this point, for me anyway, I’m just going to step back and wait and watch. Jesus said that He’d never allow the gates of hell to prevail over His church. If Pope Francis thinks he has a better idea of how to bring someone like my daughter into the Catholic church and ultimately be healed, I will be more than willing to let him give it the old college try. Heaven knows, I don’t have a better idea of my own anymore…

I’m sorry for the difficulties you’re facing. I just wanted to say this is a beautiful post, and I think your faith is inspiring

 

[Randy_Carson]

I said I was done, but I just discovered this:

What Did the Pope Say? The Risks (Part 2)
Posted on September 24th, 2013 by Squeaker in Catholicism
By squeaker

Yesterday, in part 1 of this series, we looked at the upside to Pope Francis’ recent controversial statements in the media. As far as I’m concerned, his message is bang on when it comes to the substance: faithful Catholics need to live and speak with less negativity and instead offer a more upbeat message in general.

However, Pope Francis’ approach poses some risks. His off-the-cuff style lends itself to misinterpretation and easy manipulation by the media. Why? Because when you prepare a written statement in advance, you can re-read it and have it proof-read by media-savvy colleagues who can help smooth the language to minimize risks of misinterpretation. Not so when you’re speaking off-the-cuff. This is not a trivial concern, especially considering how most Catholics don’t understand papal infallibility or the difference between Magisterial teaching and an off-the-cuff remark. There’s nothing we can do about his style, other than pray.

But there’s a longer term risk that we can and must be vigilant about. Listen to this precious insight from Father Z:

Here is an overarching concern I take away from my first readings.

Through interviews – and the coverage of interviews – a “virtual Francis” is being created. An interview, by its nature, can only go so far. Short questions and short responses only go so deep.

We have to make sure that, with all the media attention, with all these interviews, that the “virtual Francis” is not stronger than the real Francis.

That is exactly what Benedict XVI – in his last days as Pope – said and warned about how the Second Vatican Council was interpreted. The media and others created a virtual Council. Remember that? There is a Council of the Media and a Council of the Fathers.

Week by week a Francis of the Media is being crafted.

In other words, if the media have their way, it won’t really matter what the Holy Father really says, because the only message that will reach the people is the mangled version transmitted by the media. One manifestation of this “Francis of the Media” is the postcard produced by pro-choice activists thanking the Holy Father for his statements on abortion. Expect more of this.
​

+++

And read more of this here:

socon.ca/what-did-the-pop…-risks-part-2/

---

 

[choliks]

Why are you guys so worried and afraid? Do you not have faith that God will bring out the good in everything?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Everyone with doubts and concerns. (And everyone else)

Go to wordonfire.org and pick up a DVD of Father Barron’s new DVD “Catholicism: The New Evangelization”

He goes through so many if the issues and will shed much clarity to our role in reaching people.

Yeah it’s $60 bucks but it’s four DVD’s of Catholic Goodness!

Here is a preview:

youtu.be/izK2OEuDTnw

 

[Randy_Carson]

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith must have its hands full putting out clarifications.

I want to apologize for everyone for writing that.

Turns out Bishops and Catholic news organizations all over the world are fielding questions. Here’s the story:

The City Gates
Yet another Vatican PR debacle
By Phil Lawler September 23, 2013 10:13 AM
catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=657

Whether you think The Interview was a coup or a disaster—or something in between—we should all be able to agree that the Vatican’s handling of the Pope’s blockbuster was another public-relations debacle.

Ironically, the Pontifical Council for Social Communications was meeting in Rome when the news broke. Greg Erlandson, the publisher of Our Sunday Visitor, who was at the meeting, observes that Church leaders had no warning about the interview. Secular media outlets received advance copies of the text under embargo. Bishops and their spokesmen didn’t. Then the story broke, and Erlandson reports:

And as quick as you can say “Gotcha,” bishops and communications directors were suddenly fielding interview requests for a story they had not seen and were unprepared for.

The Jesuit journals that published the papal interview did a remarkable job of keeping the story quiet until the day it broke. That’s good journalism; they preserved their scoop. But if they didn’t give fair warning to the Vatican press office (which, remember, is directed by a Jesuit, Father Federico Lombardi), they deserve a scalding rebuke. If the press office did know what was coming, it’s inexcusable that other Church leaders weren’t briefed.​

+++

More from Our Sunday Visitor on being “blindsided” here:

osvdailytake.com/2013/09/communications-blindside.html

 

[choliks]

And yes… subscribing to such commentaries is NOT adding more to the “confusion.”

 

[AndyP2010]

Mother Teresa:

  People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered.  Forgive them anyway.

        If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives.  Be kind anyway.

        If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies.  Succeed anyway.

       If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you.  Be honest and sincere anyway.

        What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight.  Create anyway.

        If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous.  Be happy anyway.

        The good you do today, will often be forgotten.  Do good anyway.

     Give the best you have, and it will never be enough.  Give your best anyway.

     In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway.

For Pope Francis

If you preach the Gospel truth, other may twist your words.
Preach the truth anyway.

 

[OraLabora]

I wish I knew the one right way to approach some of these issues. As the mother of a daughter who is living in a same sex relationship–and even plans to marry her partner–I’ve tried everything I know from lecturing to cutting off all contact and even to where we are now (speaking but not about the elephant in the room). So far, all I know for sure is that my daughter would most likely never set foot in a Catholic church in her life unless it were to perhaps attend my funeral, because of her belief that the Catholic church has an anti-gay agenda. I might add that I don’t understand how it would be possible for the Catholic church NOT to have such an agenda, considering that homosexual acts are inherently sinful. I mean, if a young opposite sex couple go out together or date–or even, heaven forbid, were to live together–there is always at least a chance that it could end in their marriage. It can never end that way with my daughter and any woman she dates or goes out with.

At this point, for me anyway, I’m just going to step back and wait and watch. Jesus said that He’d never allow the gates of hell to prevail over His church. If Pope Francis thinks he has a better idea of how to bring someone like my daughter into the Catholic church and ultimately be healed, I will be more than willing to let him give it the old college try. Heaven knows, I don’t have a better idea of my own anymore…

Not to derail the thread, but as someone with young adult sons who have given us our share of grief, all I can say is that it’s impossible to control another adult.

Our recipe has been: 1) pray; 2) love 'em to pieces anyway, and 3) pray some more.

You have to learn to let go and offer up to God. We had considerable grief over one of our sons in particular, and that’s how we approached it. It seems to have worked, he came home last week, we hadn’t seen him in a year and a half.

 

[clem456]

Not to derail the thread, but as someone with young adult sons who have given us our share of grief, all I can say is that it’s impossible to control another adult.

Our recipe has been: 1) pray; 2) love 'em to pieces anyway, and 3) pray some more.

You have to learn to let go and offer up to God. We had considerable grief over one of our sons in particular, and that’s how we approached it. It seems to have worked, he came home last week, we hadn’t seen him in a year and a half.

And not to derail further, but one thing we learned is that our faith, our way of living, cannot be forced on our children after they are adults. We have two children who do not live the way we would like them to.
I learned that if I want a situation or a person to change, I change ME. If I will allow God to work in me, then his goodness and love can spread through me to others. In our case that meant for me to stop the yelling and preaching and find a more excellent way. They may come around to my way of thinking, they may not, but we will have a loving and respectful relationship.

Maybe I didn’t derail after all. This is a focus of Francis… for Catholics to convert and go “outside the walls”. The word conversion has more than one sense. For some it means a change of denomination. Another sense is to be conformed more fully to Christ and trust God for results.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The headliner story from Catholic Answers today is:

An Opportunity Missed
by Todd Aglialoro, Catholic Answers Press Editor
catholic.com/blog/todd-ag…rtunity-missed

‘[Francis’ use of] this kind of language is also prone to being taken by some as a confirmation that—aha, we knew it!—all those faithful preachers and pastors, the NFP teachers and sidewalk counselors, the heroic family witnesses to Catholic moral teaching, have all this time been just a little out of whack in their law-obsession."

 

[Jon_S_1]

The headliner story from Catholic Answers today is:

An Opportunity Missed
by Todd Aglialoro, Catholic Answers Press Editor
catholic.com/blog/todd-ag…rtunity-missed

‘[Francis’ use of] this kind of language is also prone to being taken by some as a confirmation that—aha, we knew it!—all those faithful preachers and pastors, the NFP teachers and sidewalk counselors, the heroic family witnesses to Catholic moral teaching, have all this time been just a little out of whack in their law-obsession."

Randy,

How many people could you have shared the love of Christ with during the time you have spent dissecting the Pope and researching articles showing what a poor public speaker your pope is.

How many hours looking for ways to build yourself up and your positions.

It would be one thing if this endeavor had at least the possibility of bearing fruit.

But it doesn’t which further emphasizes the fact that you are just missing the point if what the pope asks us to do. You are missing the point of true evangelization.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy,

How many people could you have shared the love of Christ with during the time you have spent dissecting the Pope and researching articles showing what a poor public speaker your pope is.

How many hours looking for ways to build yourself up and your positions.

It would be one thing if this endeavor had at least the possibility of bearing fruit.

But it doesn’t which further emphasizes the fact that you are just missing the point if what the pope asks us to do. You are missing the point of true evangelization.

Jon-

I appreciate your concern, and I think of these things, too. At the same time, you must remember that we all have different gifts from the Holy Spirit.

I am happy to be an evangelist - that is, to share the “what” of our faith when opportunities arise. However, I really see myself as an apologist - one who shares the “why” of our faith.

Both are necessary.

So, you go out and invite them to the banquet table, and I’ll explain why they’re here once they’re seated, okay?