Is RCIA too great a barrier of entry into the Church?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DavidFilmer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
My dear friend David,

I’m a trained; tested, experienced [20+ years], and certified Marian Catechist who studied for many years in order to get certified and teach. I taught RCIA for 3 years too.

Now retired and working from home I have developed a SUPPLEMENTAL to RCIA couse called: BUILDING BLOCKS OF OUR CATHOLIC FAITH, which I mail out FREE of all cost, of course…

WHY?

Because many [perhaps even most] RCIA Curriculums simply lack the time to really TEACH in depth, not only what we Catholics DO believe, but also PROVE and Provide the evidence that verifies it.

Our Catholic Faith is almost – but not quite-

at 310 the catholic faith seperated from the assembly that Jesus and Yawah were part of also saint paul-- but you quote saint paul all the time, how has the Holy Spirit anointing worked for you ?? got any signs and wonders following?

TWO THOUSAND years old:

minus (310ad 1565ad)

D It has numerious Doctrines and Dogma’s and much Sacred Tradition. In these HIGHLY secular times in which we live one MUST be well-informed to survive the Secular Humanisn; MESISM, New Age; Biased media and peer-pressure.

One SIMPLY cannot know “too much.”

And as Father John Hardon often told us: “you can’t share what you yourself don’t have.” [AMEN!]😃

With thousands of differing and competing “christian” faiths;

Actually there really are not "thousands of differing and competing christian faiths–

but the roman catholic religion does offer the most ceremonies and mortal and veinal sins available

and it really is true-- that the Sheep of Jesus’s really do hear his voice…

and some times they are in a catholic church – and some times they are in a christian congaration or assembly

one simply cannot hide form the uniformed; misinformed and aggressive non-Catholic-christian and Fundalmentalist competition. , or catholic tradition

One MUST know WELL our Faith to:
Live it

Share it when God presents the opportunity

& Defend it when necessary.

So your alternative to RCIA is?🤷

My advice David is to thing SUPPLEMENTAL.

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

2Thes.1: 5 “***This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering ***“

hello you are right the roman catholic religion takes a lot of effort to defend, now if we could only figure out what catholic religion Jesus said he was a part of – because Jesus said “if you followed this commands , then his yoke was easy and light”

youtu.be/ofDv99fuFdQ

It Ain’t easy because it Ain’t supposed to be easy. Amen:shrug:

J*esus didn’t say it ain’t supposted to be hard-- he said it was light and easy-- but it is helpful to recognize who the enemy is-- because catholics seem to be trained that it is other bible believers–

and this is a deception of religion and the devil*
 
I don’t think it is too much of a barrier, at least for a 9 month program. It’s a way to be well and truly, though gradually, received into a community.

In terms of the educational requirement, for a given individual, the time may be too long. In terms of the requirements of the heart, to take the time to grow into a faith journey of an entire lifetime, it is very short indeed.

It also works on multiple levels. One of the most important to me was at the end of RCIA I had made several new friends at my parish. As much as I love Mass, it is not a time where we gather to make friends. So, RCIA led me to a deeper relationship with Christ (I was already baptized) and Mary, but also gave me friends and community. I will be forever grateful.

Billy
 
I don’t think it is too much of a barrier, at least for a 9 month program. It’s a way to be well and truly, though gradually, received into a community.

In terms of the educational requirement, for a given individual, the time may be too long. In terms of the requirements of the heart, to take the time to grow into a faith journey of an entire lifetime, it is very short indeed.

It also works on multiple levels. One of the most important to me was at the end of RCIA I had made several new friends at my parish. As much as I love Mass, it is not a time where we gather to make friends. So, RCIA led me to a deeper relationship with Christ (I was already baptized) and Mary, but also gave me friends and community. I will be forever grateful.

Billy
You hit on a key point. RCIA is not just about learning the facts. It is about developing a relationship with Christ and with His Church specifically the parish. It is the sponsors role to help the catechumens and candidates to acclimate the participant into parish life, to help them meet people and get involved. The sponsor is so important.

Many times people are in RCIA just because they are marrying a Catholic. We could make it easy and just bring them in quickly but that doesn’t facilitate real conversion. I have seen people hostile about the length of the process slowly soften and open their hearts. Some of them even stay on as part of the team because they now see the sense of the process.

Another key part is to stay away from the one size fits all model. I have had people who we brought into the Church after a few weeks and others who stayed in the process for two years.
 
Yes. Thank goodness the thief on the cross didn’t have to wait til September’s RCIA class. 🙂
 
Sorry, I hit reply too soon. I am waiting patiently until September to start RCIA classes. What I know with certainty is that I know more about the Catholic Faith than 90% of the Catholics I’ve talked to.

If you really want to make an impact, ask people claiming to be Catholic to attend RCIA. Many never had to, and it shows. And Catholics who claim that RCIA process isn’t a great barrier of entry into the Church? A great many never attended RCIA, so of course they don’t believe it’s a barrier – it wasn’t for them!!
 
I was RCIA director at my former Parish, so I know a bit about it. I designed my own curriculum based on the Catechism (or, more specifically, Peter Kreeft’s Catholic Christianity). The program was six months long, one hour a week. We would start in late September and wrap up by Easter.

I was once at a gathering of other RCIA directors, and it seems the typical program was a year to eighteen months, with some as long as two years. This seems like a high barrier to become Catholic, especially for someone who has transportation difficulties, time constraints (maybe they work evenings and could not ever attend meetings), or personal difficulties (single parents, etc). This also requires a fairly high commitment from the sponsors.

In the old days, converts received instruction from the Parish priest, and this is still an option - that’s how my wife and I were received. Our instruction was brief (but, then again, I could cite Ott, and, besides, we were coming from a traditional Anglican communion, which is like being Catholic without a Pope). But I think typical instruction was only a few weeks.

Then, in an attempt to be more like the Early Church, we implement this big, time consuming process, one-size-fits-all, and run 99% of our converts through it. What next, public confession?

I’ve given it a lot of thought. There are good arguments on both sides, but I have come to believe that RCIA presents an unnecessarily high barrier of entry into the Church. I don’t see why converts need to know much more than the typical cradle Catholics sitting in the pews in order to begin participating in the Sacramental life of the Church.
I entered RCIA in the fall of 1985 and became fully Catholic at Easter 1986.

Compared to many Protestant churches, this does seem like a long time to join a church. However, the time was helpful to me. Even though I had gone to a Catholic high school, I still learned a lot and I used the time to make sure I was certain of my decision to become a Catholic.
 
I’ve always wondered why it takes so long to become a Catholic. I read in scripture how the apostles spoke of Jesus and many were converted and baptized THAT DAY, by the thousands! They didn’t have nine months of study first. They made the choice to enter into relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit was given them in Baptism. The Holy Spirit enlightened the new converts and gave them the support they needed to continue on their journey.

I would like to see converts immediately Baptized when they have the desire. Then they can continue the journey through the rest of the sacraments.
 
I’ve always wondered why it takes so long to become a Catholic. I read in scripture how the apostles spoke of Jesus and many were converted and baptized THAT DAY, by the thousands! They didn’t have nine months of study first. They made the choice to enter into relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit was given them in Baptism. The Holy Spirit enlightened the new converts and gave them the support they needed to continue on their journey.

I would like to see converts immediately Baptized when they have the desire. Then they can continue the journey through the rest of the sacraments.
The concept of waiting a long time, sometimes years to become a Christian happened early in the Church. The idea was to make sure that those becoming Christians really and truly understood what they were doing. Many of those baptized without learning about Christ committed apostasy and were excommunicated. Persecutions had a lot to do with that. St. Augustine was a catechumen for years and years before he was baptized. It should be something you really want. Now most of us were baptized as babies. How many of those baptized babies, now adults, are still practicing Catholics?

RCIA is a wonderful process and in the many years I have been coordinating RCIA in three different parishes I have seen such beautiful changes in people as they go through the process.
 
=Lady Love;10672761]I’ve always wondered why it takes so long to become a Catholic. I read in scripture how the apostles spoke of Jesus and many were converted and baptized THAT DAY, by the thousands! They didn’t have nine months of study first. They made the choice to enter into relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit was given them in Baptism. The Holy Spirit enlightened the new converts and gave them the support they needed to continue on their journey.
I would like to see converts immediately Baptized when they have the desire. Then they can continue the journey through the rest of the sacraments.
Hmmmmm:)

They where Baptpzed and concerted Yes! BUT is that to say they did NOT “have to” be instructed? NO!

Certainly they expected to be taught, and where taught, and did so gladly.👍

'It takes so long to become a catholic" BECAUSE

We are some 2,000 years Old

Have a GREAT many Sacred Traditions; Doctrines and Dogma’s that must be explained and understood as their acceptace is mandated and affirned Freely in the Sacrmanet of Confirmation; and reaffirmed by ALL every easter Season.

Confirmation in effect: established a personal Covenant relationship with the Confirmed and Our God. We say: “I DO BELEIVE” withour room to say “except for this or that”🙂
 
I don’t see why converts need to know much more than the typical cradle Catholics sitting in the pews in order to begin participating in the Sacramental life of the Church.
I went through RCIA in 2011-12 and have a similar opinion. If somebody believes the basics, assents to the authority of the Church and the Pope, and is knowledgeable enough to know how to act as a Catholic to stay in the state of grace, then they should be allowed entry into the Church.

If they cannot do these things then they should stay in RCIA for as long as needed. We wouldn’t want them to lie when they profess their faith in baptism or in receiving the Eucharist, etc.
 
I don’t see why converts need to know much more than the typical cradle Catholics sitting in the pews in order to begin participating in the Sacramental life of the Church.
I’m not sure it is helpful to see things in this way, given how poorly cathecised many Cradle Catholics are. 6 moths doesn’t seem that much to me. I loved RCIA and the months flew by.
 
It depends on the individual. For example, my parents came into the Church this past Easter. They went through RCIA at two parishes for a combined total of about 3 years. Frankly, they needed it. On the other hand, before my parents, I came into the Church on a profession of faith. I had spent three years devouring the faith before deciding to convert. Some people need RCIA to learn the faith; others need it as an administrative process of sorts. The Church does say, overall, that formation should not be more than is necessary for any given individual.

Recall that in the 1st century, the form of RCIA would take upwards of 9 years. Seriously.

Anyway, I trust the Church, the Magisterium, and the Holy Father. If they say go through RCIA, then so be it.

In Christ,

Trevor
 
Yesterday I met with a man and his daughter, who became Catholic last year. Since their Initiation, they have had to suffer several tragedies, including the death of their wife/mother. It’s been an extremely difficult year of grief and hardship.

This man said he was encouraging two friends of his, unbaptized, to attend Mass with him and to consider becoming Catholic. He has been talking to them about God. They asked him how long it takes to be baptized, and were shocked it took so long, that they could be baptized in a week at one of the Protestant churches. My friend said he wasn’t sure how to respond to that, but afterwards, realized that even though RCIA was hard for him, he will always be grateful for the process. He said if he had not learned about the faith and become close to Jesus the way he did during RCIA, the faith would not have mattered to him this past year and he would have given in to temptations to give up. It has been prayer, Holy Communion, and Church which have kept him going.
 
Hmmmmm:)

They where Baptpzed and concerted Yes! BUT is that to say they did NOT “have to” be instructed? NO!

Certainly they expected to be taught, and where taught, and did so gladly.👍

'It takes so long to become a catholic" BECAUSE

We are some 2,000 years Old

Have a GREAT many Sacred Traditions; Doctrines and Dogma’s that must be explained and understood as their acceptace is mandated and affirned Freely in the Sacrmanet of Confirmation; and reaffirmed by ALL every easter Season.

Confirmation in effect: established a personal Covenant relationship with the Confirmed and Our God. We say: “I DO BELEIVE” withour room to say “except for this or that”🙂
When does one have the free gift of the holy spirit Indwelling them to enable them to believe all the long Instruction. Before, at, or after baptism in water ?
 
=shaky;10677861]When does one have the free gift of the holy spirit Indwelling them to enable them to believe all the long Instruction. Before, at, or after baptism in water ?
In Christian Baptism ; which can be invalidited by Mortal sin [BUT NOT LOST] as Baptism marks a person “for life”.

Then again In Catholic Confirmation:thumbsup: Which too can be invalidated by Mortal sin.

Because God is Perfect; God resides in those who choose freely to Remain with those in the sate of His Grace.
 
1patterson
Quote:
esus didn’t say it ain’t supposted to be hard-- he said it was light and easy-- but it is helpful to recognize who the enemy is-- because catholics seem to be trained that it is other bible believers–are the enemy

and this is a deception of religion and the devil

PJM

If, as I understand your position; your implication is that anyone can read and interpret the bible and come to there own

*[and by that standard alone…the correct understanding], the preponderance of evidence in the number of non-catholic - christian faiths clearlyproves your in error.So does the bible itself.

thank you-- but as i recognize the working of the Holy Spirit in – the Samaritans purse

The story of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:30-37) gives a clear picture of God’s desire for us to help those in desperate need wherever we find them. For 35 years, Samaritan’s Purse has followed Christ’s command by aiding the world’s poor, sick, and suffering. We are an effective means of reaching hurting people in countries around the globe with food, medicine, and other assistance in the Name of Jesus Christ. This, in turn, earns us a hearing for the Gospel, the Good News of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

or with --Smith Wigglesworth was born on June 8, 1859 in Menston, Yorkshire, England, to an impoverished family. As a small child, he worked in the fields pulling turnips alongside his mother; he also worked in factories. During his childhood he was illiterate.

Nominally a Methodist, he became a born again Christian at the age of eight. His grandmother was a devout Methodist; his parents, John and Martha, were not practicing Christians although they took young Smith to Methodist and Anglican churches on regular occasions. He was confirmed by a Bishop in the Church of England, baptized by immersion in the Baptist Church and had the grounding in Bible teaching in the Plymouth Brethren while learning the plumbing trade as an apprentice from a man in the Brethren movement.[1]

or with John G lake

John Graham Lake (March 18, 1870 – September 16, 1935), usually known as John G. Lake, was a businessman who became known for his ministry as a missionary, faith healer, and founder of the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa. He was influenced by the healing ministry of John Alexander Dowie, and he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in 1907 in the wake of the Azusa Street Revival.
*
Acts.20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God [SINGULAR] which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.”

Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

PJM – you don’t seem to recognize that the Singular Chuch of Jesus has the Holy Spirit-- and as in romans 10" 8,9,10–

jesus said his sheep hear his voice and follow him–

one only need to read the posting in this forum to see and understand the problem of catholics hearing the direction from the Holy Spirit–

i rarely come across roman catholics that can hear the Holy Spirit-- and i’v been going to Mass for over 50 years-- but fortuitously i am familar with the charismatic roman catholics – who are a little bit more mature

and in those years if have functioned in all 9 gifts of the spirit-- as we all should:thumbsup:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top