Is secularism sinister?

[tonyrey]

Pope Benedict recently talked about the dangers of secularism. Aggressive atheists have denounced religion as a superstition and obstacle to progress. They have already promoted the teaching of NeoDarwinism in schools and demonstrated their intolerance of Christian beliefs and values. Richard Dawkins has stated that religious education is “priestly subversion of child minds” and “a form of child abuse that scars children for life”. Secular regimes in Russia, China and elsewhere have persecuted dissenters. Will there eventually be an “Unholy Inquisition” in Western democracies which imprisons believers in the name of freedom?

 

[Tenofovir]

Pope Benedict recently talked about the dangers of secularism. Aggressive atheists have denounced religion as a superstition and obstacle to progress. They have already promoted the teaching of NeoDarwinism in schools and demonstrated their intolerance of Christian beliefs and values. Richard Dawkins has stated that religious education is “priestly subversion of child minds” and “a form of child abuse that scars children for life”. Secular regimes in Russia, China and elsewhere have persecuted dissenters. Will there eventually be an “Unholy Inquisition” in Western democracies which imprisons believers in the name of freedom?

People in secular regimes of Eastern Europe and the ex-USSR jumped back to their religions as soon as they could. This aggressive atheism which preaches that religion is in some form against progress and root of all evil is a naive, western European notion from people who’ve never experienced Communist, Fascist or other totalitarian oppression where secular man was responsible for all oppression. Then again it’s rooted at some level in Marxism so perhaps this is the way these guys all ultimately want the world to be: a left wing elite ruling over the unwashed masses of serfs with an illusion of equality and tolerance. It is pure stupidity and what gets me is how intelligent people can fall for this nonsense.

 

[inocente]

This aggressive atheism which preaches that religion is in some form against progress and root of all evil is a naive, western European notion from people who’ve never experienced Communist, Fascist or other totalitarian oppression where secular man was responsible for all oppression.

Western European as in the fascist regimes in Germany, Italy and Spain? (OK you can omit the latter as Franco was fervently Catholic). Or Western European as in the counties that were occupied by and/or fought against the fascists?

 

[ManOnFire]

Humanity evolved from anarchy to Catholicism. We were doing just fine until TV was invented and the profiteers realized they could profit from our deconstruction back into weaklings who lust for basic instinctual pleasure via all the sex-for-sport, drugs, etc. We have given in to basic instincts for so long that we are too spoiled and comfortable to want to give it up. The Regressives (progressives) actually have the nerve to call this progress, when it is a regression into childish simpletonism. Either, they have been inbred for so long that they refuse to see it, or they believe that a Reduced people who are addicted to childish pleasure are easier to control. We have gone from fortitude and resourcefulness to an addiction for entertainment and brain pleasurism. It the exact OPPOSITE of progress, but they conveniently own the microphones, so they can LABEL their propaganda whatever they want to the masses and many people will fall for the CON. Many people will still believe them thanks to heaping the “you’re open-minded if you agree with us” propaganda.

Catholicism already has the Social Contract between man and woman, the Rules for Living. No need to become devolved, deconstructed, or tempted away from them. We need to be MORE like them. If media entertainment is the obstacle, then…

 

[JackVk]

Western European as in the fascist regimes in Germany, Italy and Spain? (OK you can omit the latter as Franco was fervently Catholic). Or Western European as in the counties that were occupied by and/or fought against the fascists?

Yes. And there was also Vichy, Hitler’s puppet government in France before it was liberated.
Yes, secularism is doing everything in its power to paint the Church as immoral, even though naturalists claim that all morals are relative.

 

[tonyrey]

Thank you for your supportive replies. The problem stems from the principle of democracy which amounts to rule by the majority who tend to be intolerant of minorities. People have the right to believe what they like but not to inflict their beliefs and values on others. There are supposed to be safeguards against discrimination but in practice the media are quick to seize on those unfortunate enough to swim against the tide. Alas, the herd instinct is alive and well in our society in spite of all the talk of enlightenment and progress. What has happened to the pursuit of moral perfection?

 

[reggieM]

If secularism means a neutral policy towards religion, then that can be healthy. Otherwise, we would have a clash of religions.
But if secularism means silencing and shutting down religion, then we’ll have the persecution that Mr. Dawkins calls for.
But what is overlooked is that atheism is a religious policy itself. So, in a neutral society, atheists should not have any more privileges than religions do.

 

[ManOnFire]

Years ago, when people in the US struggled for survival, there was more competition between ethnic groups for survival (us vs. them), so I can understand how this looks hypocritical to the Church’s teaching. Additionally, in social psychology class, there was a study that showed that people are naturally more comfortable around others who have similar values, appearances, tastes, etc. To deny this might be to deny human nature. As long as we put it in it’s proper perspective, we’ll probably be OK. Church teaches that it SHOULDN’T matter how old you are or what you look like, that Christ’s rules apply to us all, that’s the beauty of it. Now that we are no longer starving in the streets, and we have “more” free will to treat eveyone fairly because we are not paranoid about survival, it has become obvious that the media entertainment’s negative influence toward True Love has become the problem.

 

[inocente]

Yes. And there was also Vichy, Hitler’s puppet government in France before it was liberated.

So when you said “a naive, western European notion from people who’ve never experienced Communist, Fascist or other totalitarian oppression”, could you say which inexperienced, naïve Western European nations you’re talking about?

I’m just trying to understand exactly who in Western Europe doesn’t have grandparents or great grandparents who were affected by or died due to fascism, who doesn’t learn about it at school as part of their county’s history and who doesn’t see reminders of what happened on their soil, that they could be so naïve.

 

[inocente]

People have the right to believe what they like but not to inflict their beliefs and values on others.

Are one billion Catholics powerless, or would you say that the Church is infected?

 

[tonyrey]

Are one billion Catholics powerless, or would you say that the Church is infected?

Catholics are minorities in most countries…

 

[JDaniel]

So when you said “a naive, western European notion from people who’ve never experienced Communist, Fascist or other totalitarian oppression”, could you say which inexperienced, naïve Western European nations you’re talking about?

I’m just trying to understand exactly who in Western Europe doesn’t have grandparents or great grandparents who were affected by or died due to fascism, who doesn’t learn about it at school as part of their county’s history and who doesn’t see reminders of what happened on their soil, that they could be so naïve.

Inocente:

The next generation. Parents and grand parents tell stories. The next generation just hear stories. Mostly, it never affected them or their lives . . . so, they remain just stories. I see that in my kids, now.

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

Catholics are minorities in most countries…

And, churched Catholics are definitely minorities.

God bless,
jd

 

[andyandely1997]

Humanity evolved from anarchy to Catholicism. We were doing just fine until TV was invented and the profiteers realized they could profit from our deconstruction back into weaklings who lust for basic instinctual pleasure via all the sex-for-sport, drugs, etc. We have given in to basic instincts for so long that we are too spoiled and comfortable to want to give it up. The Regressives (progressives) actually have the nerve to call this progress, when it is a regression into childish simpletonism. Either, they have been inbred for so long that they refuse to see it, or they believe that a Reduced people who are addicted to childish pleasure are easier to control. We have gone from fortitude and resourcefulness to an addiction for entertainment and brain pleasurism. It the exact OPPOSITE of progress, but they conveniently own the microphones, so they can LABEL their propaganda whatever they want to the masses and many people will fall for the CON. Many people will still believe them thanks to heaping the “you’re open-minded if you agree with us” propaganda.

Catholicism already has the Social Contract between man and woman, the Rules for Living. No need to become devolved, deconstructed, or tempted away from them. We need to be MORE like them. If media entertainment is the obstacle, then…

You make a good point & I agree completely how our entertainment mentality/culture is debasing our society. The average American knows entertainment/sports like the back of their hand, but little about hard news. Or take the average Catholic, who knows little about their faith & Catholic news within our country. Secularism is kicking God out, and replacing Him with false idols. One thing although, TV is not bad in itself, but with most things these days, it is being used more for evil than for good.

 

[inocente]

The next generation. Parents and grand parents tell stories. The next generation just hear stories. Mostly, it never affected them or their lives . . . so, they remain just stories. I see that in my kids, now.

Still doesn’t explain why Western Europe is said to be the heart of all this dastardliness compared to say the USA or China. Seems to be a global phenomenon.

And, churched Catholics are definitely minorities.

Which seems to be the case here in Spain and is the issue that concerns me most, my friend. Is this slide all the fault of others or are Christians culpable?

 

[JDaniel]

Still doesn’t explain why Western Europe is said to be the heart of all this dastardliness compared to say the USA or China. Seems to be a global phenomenon.

That, my good friend, was not the question I was answering! If I had to hazard a guess, it would probably be that Western Europe seems to be the seat of Catholic expansion, since AD 40 (or so).

Which seems to be the case here in Spain and is the issue that concerns me most, my friend. Is this slide all the fault of others or are Christians culpable?

It is what God expected it to be. It was inevitable. Satan has not let up. Satan has not let any of us off the hook. It does sadden me, though. However, realistically, the numbers of excellent Christians seems to be holding. That said, there are obviously those who are un-churched. But, from what I see, the ranks of the un-churched, at least in Catholicism, may actually be diminishing.

The Episcopalian religious center, in Pennsylvania, (that tracks these numbers) will tell you that it’s not looking too good for Protestants. Also, it appears to me, at least, that while we are losing membership amongst our own, we are gaining from the pious Protestants, especially their clergy. Seems the better they really know Scripture, they succumb to its Truth.

Hope I didn’t offend any one.

God bless,
jd

 

[R_Daneel]

The worry about the possible religious persecution is unwarranted. In the civilized world the freedom to practice one’s religion (or live without one) is firmly established - usually in the countries’ Constitution. There is only a small minority which screams about “persecution” when they are prevented from displaying their religious symbols in the public square. Most people realize that it is their protection to treat all religions equally, it prevents the emergence of theocracies. Only the religious tyrannies (which are not civilized) bring laws against the free practice of religions.

It would be the dumbest idea to try and restrict religious freedom. Nothing binds people more than a persection of their ideas. The Romans stupidly did that. The result is still with us today.

The funny thing is that religious freedom of speech is protected even stronger than the freedom of “generic speech”. Maybe it comes from the realization that religion cannot compete successfully in the open marketplace of ideas, so it needs special protection.

But, be as it may, there is no need to worry. The trend is that religion loses ground on its own, there is no need to hasten the process, which may very well backfire. We can safely let religion die its natural death, which will not happen in the foreseeable future, so you and your children and grandchildren will enjoy the safety guaranteed by those secular goverments, and practice whichever religion you wish to practice. Have fun with it. Just don’t get paranoid about a nonexistent persecution.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

The worry about the possible religious persecution is unwarranted. In the civilized world the freedom to practice one’s religion (or live without one) is firmly established - usually in the countries’ Constitution. There is only a small minority which screams about “persecution” when they are prevented from displaying their religious symbols in the public square. Most people realize that it is their protection to treat all religions equally, it prevents the emergence of theocracies. Only the religious tyrannies (which are not civilized) bring laws against the free practice of religions.

It would be the dumbest idea to try and restrict religious freedom. Nothing binds people more than a persection of their ideas. The Romans stupidly did that. The result is still with us today.

The funny thing is that religious freedom of speech is protected even stronger than the freedom of “generic speech”. Maybe it comes from the realization that religion cannot compete successfully in the open marketplace of ideas, so it needs special protection.

But, be as it may, there is no need to worry. The trend is that religion loses ground on its own, there is no need to hasten the process, which may very well backfire. We can safely let religion die its natural death, which will not happen in the foreseeable future, so you and your children and grandchildren will enjoy the safety guaranteed by those secular goverments, and practice whichever religion you wish to practice. Have fun with it. Just don’t get paranoid about a nonexistent persecution.

Indeed, in many ways, I find it funny that the christians who cry foul when they are not allowed to say proselytize to people in apublic square are the first to scream bloody murder when another religion dos the same thing.

IE A school in florida was forced to change it’s rules against religious groups handing out materials on the elementary and middle school campuses after several local churches petitioned the school board and the courts to have the ability to hand out pamphlets that talked about jesus and prayer groups etc that they wanted the kids tyo go to.

SO the rule was changed allowing any religious group to hand out materials or religous nature to small kids on school grounds.

BUT when the first group to use this new rule change was a wiccan group inviting kids interested in Wicca to attend a daytime worship of the sun(or something i forget to be honest) a block or so from the school. parents who had hired lawyers, petitioned and screamed at school board members to change the rule…now screamed exactly the opposite wanting groups such as this banned from handing out pamphlets which “corrupted the minds of children”. he judges told them that the same rule would apply to them and they didn’t care anymore they would rather not be able to proselytize on school grounds than let wiccans do the same. so the rule was changed back only a few weeks after the first change.

so remember christians…be careful what you wish for…you might just get it.

 

[R_Daneel]

Indeed, in many ways, I find it funny that the christians who cry foul when they are not allowed to say proselytize to people in apublic square are the first to scream bloody murder when another religion dos the same thing.

IE A school in florida was forced to change it’s rules against religious groups handing out materials on the elementary and middle school campuses after several local churches petitioned the school board and the courts to have the ability to hand out pamphlets that talked about jesus and prayer groups etc that they wanted the kids tyo go to.

SO the rule was changed allowing any religious group to hand out materials or religous nature to small kids on school grounds.

BUT when the first group to use this new rule change was a wiccan group inviting kids interested in Wicca to attend a daytime worship of the sun(or something i forget to be honest) a block or so from the school. parents who had hired lawyers, petitioned and screamed at school board members to change the rule…now screamed exactly the opposite wanting groups such as this banned from handing out pamphlets which “corrupted the minds of children”. he judges told them that the same rule would apply to them and they didn’t care anymore they would rather not be able to proselytize on school grounds than let wiccans do the same. so the rule was changed back only a few weeks after the first change.

so remember christians…be careful what you wish for…you might just get it.

The story is hilarious! Of course the people who want “special” treatment for themselves go by the adage in Animal Farm: “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others!”.

 

[ManOnFire]

The funny thing is that religious freedom of speech is protected even stronger than the freedom of “generic speech”. Maybe it comes from the realization that religion cannot compete successfully in the open marketplace of ideas, so it needs special protection.

I think you’ve been watching too much TV. Atheists have taken a leap of faith, hope, belief that God does not exist, yet, they have zero scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that He does not exist. If He does exist, then naturally, there will never be proof of his non-existence. If He doesn’t exist, then they’ll claim the philosophical and scientific paradox that one cannot claim a negative. EITHER WAY, regardless of WHY, the FACT remains that atheists have no scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that God does not exist. Atheism is impossible to prove and has no hope of understanding the infinity of time and space in a godless existence.

Wow, nothing like the pot calling the kettle black regarding the lack of scientific evidence for beliefs. You’ve got it perfectly backwards. Ultimate truth is unknowable, so an open marketplace for further advances in cosmology has no practical application to humanity. Good luck wasting your time. It’s just a fun daydream. At least we get some pretty pictures of stars out of it though.