J
Jaguar
Guest
You seek us out to asked our advice … and it makes you sick?
Why on earth did you ask our opinion in the first place?
- Status
Why on earth did you ask our opinion in the first place?
R
RosaryFan
Guest
Yeah, okay. Get back to us in about a year and let us know how this all works out for you. And pardon me, but how do you know you’re not making us sick?
E
Edward_H
Guest
You don’t need any more advice. You need more sincerity with your situation. You haven’t found truth yet, and worse, it sounds like you’re not really interested in the truth, if it’s going to get in the way of your plans, your desires, your hopes, your opinions.
Don’t ever let anything get between Truth and yourself, including your pride, opinions, habits, desires.
You also need more concern for those who know what you’re doing…or planning to do. That’s scandalous.
And if you say it’s none of their business, you don’t understand the responsibility of a confirmed Catholic.
D
ddarko
Guest
There are things you can do and cannot do for a friend. If you can help her out financially to secure her own place, or pray for her circumstance with her parents, those are things you CAN do. Sharing a bed with her or Cohabiting something you CAN NOT do. Even couples who are going to get married are not suppossed to be cohabiting.First, I should state that I’m the man she’s going to be moving in with. Although I understand the concern coming from some of you, and most certainly find it a bit uncouth for two opposite-sex friends to sleep together (which is why I won’t), I don’t appreciate the insinuations of deception, lust, ungentlemanliness, and unrighteousness set upon me by some of you. I simply don’t believe that there is any need to be concerned in this situation concerning two friends living together. Honestly, I’m more concerned about rubbing her the wrong way with some of my unbecoming habits than anything!There would be scandal, there would be an occasion of sin, if there were any sinfulness involved in the first place. However, there is not and I do not believe in being overly-righteous. If I were to bend to some of the cultural mores of certain Christians and refuse to move in with her I would lose her outright for perhaps the rest of my life. Her family are Jehovah’s Witnesses, they are accusing her of bring demons into their lives and persecuting her and keeping her from even getting anywhere near a church (nonetheless actually partaking in the RCIA classes), and they are unkind towards her and are planning on dragging her off to California together with them and taking her SSI money from her. So in all honesty, mores be damned, I’m helping her out of there.
We are not attracted to each other. On my side I can say that she is most absolutely not my type. She’s a big, tough, black Gothic chick and I’m in to delicate fair skinned cutesy white girls LOL. And she has a man too.
When we move in together there will be separate rooms for us to sleep in, and when she’s at my grandmother’s home we will all be present simultaneously due to us all being a bunch of disabled nutters. And gma’s old fashioned so yeah…
Why? Because it is scandalous and putting yourself in a near occasion of SIN. Do you understand what I am saying? It is an actual SIN.
You cannot also make the claim that you are doing it out of NECESSITY because your friend DOES currently have a place to stay - her family. No matter how much they seem to disagree with her Catholic beliefs, they are not kicking her out of the house. Even if they move to California, there are Catholic churches in California that she can attend. So you are being a bit selfish here. It seems that the only thing that changes when she moves to California is that you loose a friend.
So, while living with YOU till she can find her own place, she can CONTINUE to sleep WITH HER FAMILY and try to find a place. Her moving in with you instead would even cause scandal to her family. They might get a more wrong impression as to what “Catholics do”.
In short, there is no reason for her to move in with you, OR for you to let her move in with you. You’ve somehow tried to mentally justify it to yourself as you are doing something GOOD out of necessity while breaking the shackles of traditional norms or something. But there is really no necessity either. Unless her family is about to kill her or physically abusing her, you are way out of line. There is no justification for what you are doing and you two are COMMITTING A SIN.
You are setting yourself up for something you will regret and even if that does not happen, you would have scandalized EVERYONE that knows you by the end of the day including this girl’s family. Is that really the impression you want to leave with others as well as with her family on Catholic men?
On a side note, you are also possibly ruining this girl’s chances of meeting a good Catholic spouse one day, since clearly according to you, you are not the one going to marry her. Any Catholic man looking for a wife will find the idea that she slept/lived with you for few weeks a bit odd and see the sin of scandal involved.
God Bless
J
Jaguar
Guest
If you don’t want to hear from us, anymore. Go see a well-thought of priest.
God bless.
God bless.
W
WoundedIcon
Guest
I was talking to her on Skype and ran it by her before posting. It’s the truth so she doesn’t mind. And of course I feel emotions toward her, but it’s unhealthy to act as though love between people of the opposite sex automatically terminates in sex. It’s frankly a quite ridiculous mindset to have, to be so focused on sexual sin that even friendly affection sounds scandalous to some of you. And the whole point of the move is to get her away from a negative situation. I mean, she won’t go homeless but do you honestly think a family who believes demons are attacking them because of Catholicism are going to drive her to the nearest paga… I mean, parish church to be “brainwashed” as they’d see it. No, she has no one else to live with. No, she can’t live on her own. No, I will not let her be traumatized by living in a flippin’ shelter. And I have NO friends up here where I live. Call me selfish, but I have a genuine need for her presence as well.
D
ddarko
Guest
Ok look, she has a HOME with her FAMILY. You are making excuses to live with her.
And it is a near occasion of sin. What part of “Near Occasion of Sin” don’t you get?
You want her to be a good Catholic (which is why you say you want her to be with you so that she can attend church) BUT you are causing her to sin in the first place. What are you thinking?
And the last line above sums everything up. You have a NEED for her. What you are doing here is getting her in to something that is not GOOD for her for the sake of fulfilling your NEED. That is immoral.
I think you really need to ask yourself WHAT you are doing. Do you want her to be a good Catholic woman? Is you cohabiting with her exactly a “Catholic” thing to do? What kind of effect will it have on her future as she meets other Catholic men who actually are considering to be her spouse unlike you who is just looking to fulfill a NEED?
You can of course go ahead and do what you want. But know that it is a sin (because you are putting each other in near occasion of sin, and you are using her for your “GENUINE NEED”). There is no way you can justify what you are doing.
My advice to you is to help her by praying for her, taking her to church till she moves away (if she would actually move), and perhaps spend time with her family explaining things to them etc.
What you are about to do now is going to certainly make them think their family is getting attacked by demons, which actually is true considering you are indeed leading her to sin.
God Bless
D
ddarko
Guest
OR here is a thought, why don’t you let her live with your grandmother while you live separately? There is no reason why YOU can’t live alone.
God Bless
W
WoundedIcon
Guest
I’d take her to church if it weren’t for the fact that she lives in Columbus, OH and I in Lorain, OH. And neither of us can manage living alone. We’ll both be across the street from my grandmother. I don’t think you get that her family believes Catholicism is Satanic. They throw out her Catechism and such behind her back. And so what if I acknowledge a need for her in my life? Just because I’m a man that automatically makes me a lecher? I’m using her!? What kind of misandric “protect the princess” bull is this? Heck, I’m a virgin! and I chose to be that way, it’s not for sheer lack of opportunity!OR here is a thought, why don’t you let her live with your grandmother while you live separately? There is no reason why YOU can’t live alone.
God Bless
What you need to do is prove to me that your a priori assumption that opposite-sex roomates = cohabitation, because every time I’ve heard that term used it’s in reference to romantic partners living like husband and wife. Because right now all I’m hearing is cultural griping hiding under Christianese.
B
Bookcat
Guest
B
Bookcat
Guest
The question in part is finding the right means to the solution to the difficulty.
Again I would suggest to spend time looking for affordable housing for her (and if he need it too for him)…contact Catholic Charities…they can be a big help. It can be near each other (but not with each other…for this is not brother and brother or sister and sister relationship nor is it marriage of course)
With others involved a solution one has never thought of or found…can suddenly appear.
(there are other like resources too out there…)
Again I would suggest to spend time looking for affordable housing for her (and if he need it too for him)…contact Catholic Charities…they can be a big help. It can be near each other (but not with each other…for this is not brother and brother or sister and sister relationship nor is it marriage of course)
With others involved a solution one has never thought of or found…can suddenly appear.
(there are other like resources too out there…)
D
ddarko
Guest
What is there to prove? Two opposite sex people living together is the definition is of COHABITATION.
I am not the one with the burden of proof here btw. Regardless of whether it is cohabitation or not, since you two are of the opposite sex, what you are doing is a SIN because you are putting yourself in near occasion of sin.
The burden of proof is on you to show me why you have no choice. But nothing you have said so far proves that you don’t have a choice.
She has a place to live. She is not getting kicked out.
Her family might think Catholicism is satanic but that’s irrelevant since her faith is within her. What you are proposing is that she come and do something immoral which is to commit a sin and hence an immoral act. She has decided to become a Catholic while LIVING with her family. If she can do that much, she can certainly keep her faith and tell her family to respect her choice.
So as far as I can see, you have no justifiable reason to make what you are doing a necessity. She has ample amounts of choice, leading to tough times, but MORAL choices.
Choosing you might be the easiest choice but its immoral. Hence as a Catholic, it is not an option.
For the sake of her salvation (ironically, which is the reasons why you are saying she needs to move in with you), you have to keep her from sinning. Living with her family and going through a tough time IS NOT A SIN. But to move in with you and live with you IS A SIN because she puts her-self in near occasion of sin and possibly also commits the sin of scandal. So why can’t you see that you are not even doing whats best for her salvation?
God Bless
W
WoundedIcon
Guest
I know… I don’t want to give scandal. I just don’t see any other options. Wait. Maybe she could move in across the street and I stay here… but the dumb thing about that is that I’ll probably be at her place all day anyways. I mean… gma vs. best friend LOL.
W
WoundedIcon
Guest
Sorry to be a smart aleck but…What is there to prove? Two opposite sex people living together is the definition is of COHABITATION.
I am not the one with the burden of proof here btw. Regardless of whether it is cohabitation or not, since you two are of the opposite sex, what you are doing is a SIN because you are putting yourself in near occasion of sin.
The burden of proof is on you to show me why you have no choice. But nothing you have said so far proves that you don’t have a choice.
She has a place to live. She is not getting kicked out.
Her family might think Catholicism is satanic but that’s irrelevant since her faith is within her. What you are proposing is that she come and do something immoral which is to commit a sin and hence an immoral act. She has decided to become a Catholic while LIVING with her family. If she can do that much, she can certainly keep her faith and tell her family to respect her choice.
So as far as I can see, you have no justifiable reason to make what you are doing a necessity. She has ample amounts of choice, leading to tough times, but MORAL choices.
Choosing you might be the easiest choice but its immoral. Hence as a Catholic, it is not an option.
For the sake of her salvation (ironically, which is the reasons why you are saying she needs to move in with you), you have to keep her from sinning. Living with her family and going through a tough time IS NOT A SIN. But to move in with you and live with you IS A SIN because she puts her-self in near occasion of sin and possibly also commits the sin of scandal. So why can’t you see that you are not even doing whats best for her salvation?
God Bless
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cohabitation
So, if the Church speaks of cohabitation as a sin, it speaks of unwedded couples placing themselves (due to their attraction and relationship) in a near occasion of sin by living together as though married, or actually sinning by partaking in the marital embrace within the context of that arrangement.
So, by definition, this is not cohabitation and there is no sin.
D
ddarko
Guest
You have an option. Let her be where she is right now.
Her being with her family is NOT A SIN. Her living with you IS A SIN. There is really no dilemma here.
God Bless
D
ddarko
Guest
Did you even read the rest of my post, or did you think you were too smart?
What I said applies regardless of whether it’s cohabitation or not. Near occasion of sin and Scandal of sin are not limited to couples that fit the definition of cohabitation.
I even said
**“Regardless of whether it is cohabitation or not, since you two are of the opposite sex, what you are doing is a SIN because you are putting yourself in near occasion of sin.”
**
Who are you fooling here other than yourself?
God Bless
J
Jaguar
Guest
W
WoundedIcon
Guest
I could easily say that living with her family is an occasion of sin. It leads her to despair of hope, to strife, to depression and anger, it keeps her from even being baptized or of course taking communion in the future, she is mistreated and has money taken from her, etc. Since there is no straightforward proof here that any sin is being committed, despite emotional protestations to the contrary due to modern Western Christian sexual mores and a dose of “constantly holding the heart in suspicion”, I am going to do this. If you earnestly think it’s a sin, pray for God to tank our plans. Just be aware that He can, and if He doesn’t, well…You have an option. Let her be where she is right now.
Her being with her family is NOT A SIN. Her living with you IS A SIN. There is really no dilemma here.
God Bless
W
WoundedIcon
Guest
A near occasion of sexual sin requires more than the two parties involved to have a dinky and a plug dude.Did you even read the rest of my post, or did you think you were too smart?
What I said applies regardless of whether it’s cohabitation or not. Near occasion of sin and Scandal of sin are not limited to couples that fit the definition of cohabitation.
I even said
**“Regardless of whether it is cohabitation or not, since you two are of the opposite sex, what you are doing is a SIN because you are putting yourself in near occasion of sin.”
**
Who are you fooling here other than yourself?
God Bless
V
VonDerTann
Guest
WoundedIcon, you make some noteworthy statements:
“…And neither of us can manage living alone.”
–That doesn’t justify cohabitation. With all due respect, if you’re not up to living alone, whether for psychogical reasons or whatever, you’re really in no position to be able to handle cohabitating wih someone you care for
“…And so what if I acknowledge a need for her in my life?”
–Actually, it’s actually quite important, for many reasons.
–It IS cohabitation. Period.
Saying we are spouting “Christianese,” and giving you “bull” is just another way of saying “I don’t like what you’re saying but I can’t really argue with it so I’ll namecall.”
WoundedIcon, the more you post, the less able you seem to handle the reality of the situation. This is looking less and less to me like a “friend letting someone of the opposite sex crash with him while she looks for a place.” Instead, it looks increasingly like a guy saying, “I have feelings for her and she should live with me, because I don’t want her leaving me, and she needs me too!,” and that is scary, on a LOT of levels. Finally, I note OP’s claims that both you, and her, are afflicted with some type of psychological “issue,” and, while I admit unfamiliarity with it, it by necessity speaks to both your, and OP’s, (in)ability to handle issues like this. So I must charitably say that in my opinion what you are proposing is “cohabitation;” it is objectively immoral; and it is subjectively bad for you, and for her. Period, and good luck.
–VdT
“…And neither of us can manage living alone.”
–That doesn’t justify cohabitation. With all due respect, if you’re not up to living alone, whether for psychogical reasons or whatever, you’re really in no position to be able to handle cohabitating wih someone you care for
“…And so what if I acknowledge a need for her in my life?”
–Actually, it’s actually quite important, for many reasons.
- First, it completely puts the lie to the statement that neither you nor OP has feelings for one another. It also shows that OP doesn’t know you very well, as she claims ignorance of these feelings. We can’t really say what her feelings for you are, but it’s evident that you clearly have feelings for her, and very strong possessory feelings at that, since you’ve become offended at those who are not in agreement with what you, and she, are proposing.
- Your statement suggests dishonorable intentions - perhaps not in a sexual sense, but dishonorable nonetheless, since it smacks of “I admit it, I WANT to live with her, whether it’s right for her or not!”
- Since you clearly have feelings for OP, now I’m lead back to my statement in my earlier post, to the effect that, once you live with her, you become a competitor for her affections with whoever else may be interested in her.
–It IS cohabitation. Period.
Saying we are spouting “Christianese,” and giving you “bull” is just another way of saying “I don’t like what you’re saying but I can’t really argue with it so I’ll namecall.”
WoundedIcon, the more you post, the less able you seem to handle the reality of the situation. This is looking less and less to me like a “friend letting someone of the opposite sex crash with him while she looks for a place.” Instead, it looks increasingly like a guy saying, “I have feelings for her and she should live with me, because I don’t want her leaving me, and she needs me too!,” and that is scary, on a LOT of levels. Finally, I note OP’s claims that both you, and her, are afflicted with some type of psychological “issue,” and, while I admit unfamiliarity with it, it by necessity speaks to both your, and OP’s, (in)ability to handle issues like this. So I must charitably say that in my opinion what you are proposing is “cohabitation;” it is objectively immoral; and it is subjectively bad for you, and for her. Period, and good luck.
–VdT
- Status