Is Society SSPX Mass OK?

[bear06]

Iohannes:

It is about hypocrisy.

At least the SSPX are showing who they are. The AmChurch bishops are wolves in sheeps clothing.

It’s unbelievable to me (regardless that it happens over and over again) that people can’t see that the SSPX is doing the exact same thing as the AmChurch. “Oh, we are obedient to the Pope” - not!

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Marilena:

I was wondering if going to this Mass is acceptable? I found out
information that it might not be. I wonder because I like
tradtionalism, and love the Latin Mass. But if it is not acceptable,
I wont be going. I have not attended a Latin Mass in a Tradtional
Church. Nor have I or my husband studied Cathechism with them.
I was going to go tonight, but not if it is a mortal sin. No way.
I’d like some help if someone can point out facts to me. I’d
like 100% proof if its valid or not. If not, then I wont be attending
the Tradtional Church. I read the website of one, and it says nothing about the bishops being excommunicated. Does anyone have any points to offer?

No, it is not OK. Read what John Paul II stated in his encyclical - John Paul II - Motu Proprio (2 July 1988)Ecclesia****Dei

In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.

Furthermore, from the Pontifical Congregation of Bishops, in a response to a request for clarification regarding status of the followers of Monsignor Lefebvre, dated October 31, 1996:

**The sacraments **(of Baptism, the Eucharist and the anointing of the sick) administered illicitly by these priests are valid, although illicit.

…Participation in their services is objectively illicit because they are not performed in full communion with the Church, and because they are a source of grave scandal and division in the ecclesial community.

 

[Catholic29]

itsjustdave1988:

No, it is not OK. Read what John Paul II stated in his encyclical Ecclesia Dei - John Paul II - Motu Proprio (2 July 1988)

Furthermore, from the Pontifical Congregation of Bishops, in a response to a request for clarification regarding status of the followers of Monsignor Lefebvre, dated October 31, 1996:

Amen Dave,

I have posted the same such document with this thread, though unfortunately it was conveniently overlooked, see post # 8.

I have seen this phenomenon before among SSPX supporters, you give them legitimate magisterial documents from the most official source, the Holy See’s own website no less. Yet they clam up, and claim it isn’t binding on the faithful, because of some stipulation or another they found in canon law. Needless to say they have yet to cite any specific page or paragraph in the 1983 Code which without any shadow of a doubt over rules John Paul II’s 1988 Motu Proprio, and until that happens I for one will not be cowed.:nope:

 

[Marilena]

Thank you. I do appreciate all the information. I know now about the SSPX. Can one hold onto traditional values despite the fact
that you are not going to the SSPX Mass? Is there a problem
with holding onto the values, or should one not even consider having old tradtional values? Like for instance, saying Holy
Ghost instead of Holy Spirit, and liking the idea of the veil
( even though I don’t wear one as I will not be attending at all
the SSPX Mass) Should one not say Holy Ghost? Should one
not like the idea of wearing a veil? Should one not read the Douay- Rheims? I’d think this is all a matter of personal choice, but if it is not, and reading the Douay-Rheims, and saying Holy Ghost, and one should not like the idea of the veil, then one is
at fault then for reading it, saying Holy Ghost and liking the veil
I guess. Should one go then to confession and tell the priest
you are reading the Douay-Rheims, saying Holy Ghost,. and
like the veil? I only read the Douay-Rheims, and I say the Holy Ghost, and I like it for myself the idea of wearing a veil at a
Latin Mass, no I have not gone to one, and wont. I have deep traditional values. But, at the same time, I respect the Holy See, and will abide by whatever they put out regarding the SSPX. No doubt about it! I hope in all sincerity that someday the SSPX will be in communion with Rome at some point in the future.

Note: please do not consider my questions about the Douay-Rheims, the Holy Ghost, and the veil to be silly. They are
very important to me, and I think my questions about my
tradtional values are valid. Thanks.

 

[Marilena]

paramedicgirl:

In the case of the OP, obviously because she is unaware of their schismatic situation and came here seeking advice after hearing a few concerns about them.

It’s very easy to be attracted to this Mass, and there are actually people outside of CAF who are not aware of the depth of the situation of SSPX. I know, because I used to think they were just very traditional and opposed to modernism. Until I started reading the posts here at CAF. So don’t be so hard on people who just don’t know!

Very true, I was fully unaware until I did some research into it, and
now that I have done it, and read all the posts here, I appreciate
the effort of everyone here who has helped me out on this issue.
I only wondered and asked the original question because I was
attracted to the idea of the SSPX, and the Tridentene Mass. But
as I have said in my above post, I hope the SSPX at some point
in the future will be in communion with Rome. Thanks again!

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Marilena:

Note: please do not consider my questions about the Douay-Rheims, the Holy Ghost, and the veil to be silly. They are
very important to me, and I think my questions about my
tradtional values are valid. Thanks.

You may certainly uphold traditional values, use the Douay-Rheims, say Holy Ghost and wear a veil. I too do all those things (well…except the veil)

Yet, contrary to the views of some dissenting traditionalists, according to the pre-Vatican II source, Summa Theologiae Moralis, 31st Edition, 1956, Vol. 1, by H. Noldin, et. al., when the Magisterium has given an authoritative response, that is one of the cases in which probabilism is thereafter excluded (No. 236-237).

Consequently, “*An authentic noninfallible teaching of the magisterium is invested with certitude, that is, with moral, practical certitude. Such a certitude precludes and, in fact, is un related to any consideration of a contrary probable opinion.” *(Fr. Joseph Cosstanzo, Academic Dissent: An Original Ecclesiology)

So, don’t be fooled by traditionalists claims of “probable opinion” which are contrary to the certain judgement of the authentic Magisterium.

If you are attracted to the Tridentine Mass, I recommend attending a Mass celebrated by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), which is a licit and valid celebration of the Catholic Mass according to the 1962 edition of the Roman Missal. (see: fssp.org/ )

 

[GoLatin]

About wearing a veil:

You can, and should, cover your head at any Catholic Church that you attend. Covering your head is not just an “SSPX thing”.

Even though women covering their heads is not mentioned in the 1983 Code of Canon Law, the practice is DEFINITELY NOT BANNED.

I have never been to an SSPX chapel, and I cover my head ALWAYS in Church.

People might give you hostile looks, but go ahead and cover your head!!! It shows respect and humility for a woman to cover her head!

The 1917 Code of Canon Law specifically required women to cover their heads. I believe that it also said something about women covering their heads whenever they pray in public, not just at Mass, or in Church.

I follow the above practice, and will not even pray for my food, or make the sign of the cross, with my head uncovered.

Yes, I know that the 1917 Code of Canon Law is no longer in force, but if a woman wants to get into the true traditional “spirit”, she should cover her head when she prays, and especially at Mass.

Ladies, don’t be afraid to cover your heads, and dress modestly, even when you are the only one!

 

[bear06]

You can, and should, cover your head at any Catholic Church that you attend.

Before I go off on a rant, I’m assuming that you mean if Marilena feels called by God to wear a veil she should wear one. Yes?

Marilena, wearing a veil, reading the Douay-Rheims version of the bible and using Holy Ghost is just fine. None of these are contra to the teaching of the Church. Attending an approved Tridentine is just peachy too. I suggest reading Pastor Aeternus. This is one document that the SSPX, whether they say they do or not, doesn’t follow .ewtn.com/library/councils/v1.htm#6

 

[Marilena]

I haven’t worn a veil at church. I only mentioned that I like the
tradition of the veil I will ask my priest if I can wear one, and
if he says yes, no problem. As for a Latin Mass in our area, I will
check into it and see if there is an approved one here. I value all
of your opinions I welcome them all Thank you all so much,
and God bless you all!

 

[Marilena]

Again all, thank you so much!

 

[Marilena]

bear06:

Before I go off on a rant, I’m assuming that you mean if Marilena feels called by God to wear a veil she should wear one. Yes?

Marilena, wearing a veil, reading the Douay-Rheims version of the bible and using Holy Ghost is just fine. None of these are contra to the teaching of the Church. Attending an approved Tridentine is just peachy too. I suggest reading Pastor Aeternus. This is one document that the SSPX, whether they say they do or not, doesn’t follow .ewtn.com/library/councils/v1.htm#6

Excellent article! Thank you very much for posting that!

 

[Sean_O_L]

Iohannes wrote:

As usual, you are taking things out of context. Generally, people who attend the SSPX chapels are not part of the SSPX, unless they are part of the Third order. That is what he meant. Or he does not know there is a third order sspx.

As usual you do not appreciate precision in truth! Ahh, and I see that you are now a psychic - able to probe others’ minds: now you know “what he meant”!

 

[Sean_O_L]

Iohannes wrote:

Do you do anything other than go after the SSPX? It seems the SSPX is your phantom trying to kill you or trying to take you away. Number one, the number of SSPX priest in the US is only 50. That is not a lot of SSPX Masses in the United States compared to liturgical abuses that happen in the Novus Ordo.

This is just more emotional illogic.

But, it is interesting to look at these figures:

18% of 50 SSPX priests defected in one group from the SSPX to become (what they had always been) Sedevacantists. More have defected since that event.

Bishop Williamson wrote that at the time of Lefebvre’s death over 100 SSPX priests had defected from the SSPX. Reasons included 1) to sedevacantism, 2) adultery and fornication, 3) accusation of incest, 4) to get married, etc., etc. Some SSPX priests have been responsible for the deaths of some of their charges and for an innocent third party.

But, the main thing is that I object to the SSPX attempting to con gullible persons into adhering to their schismatic cult.

As to what ELSE I do - e-mail me at jloughnan@hotmail.com and I will privately and confidentially provide you with EVIDENCE of my battle against liturgical abuse. When you see it, I will expect to to publically apologize for your attack on me.

 

[Sean_O_L]

Predictably, there has been no contact nor apology from Iohannes!