Is speaking in tongues, xenoglossia or glossolalia?

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Is speaking in tongues the ability to speak a foreign language or foreign languages without having studied them, whether existent or not (meaning those languages that no longer exist etc…) or is it:

Glossolalia - the fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning, in some cases as part of religious practice in which it is believed to be a divine language unknown to the speaker. - Wiki

There seems to be some confusion. I have understood speaking in tongues to mean the ability to speak in a language foreign to the speaker but not simply a common foreign language. When Paul writes that he has the gift of speaking in tongues, I don’t understand him to be saying that he is able to speak in foreign languages, yet, many people understand for him to be saying this.
 
Is speaking in tongues the ability to speak a foreign language or foreign languages without having studied them, whether existent or not (meaning those languages that no longer exist etc…) or is it:

Glossolalia - the fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning, in some cases as part of religious practice in which it is believed to be a divine language unknown to the speaker. - Wiki

There seems to be some confusion. I have understood speaking in tongues to mean the ability to speak in a language foreign to the speaker but not simply a common foreign language. When Paul writes that he has the gift of speaking in tongues, I don’t understand him to be saying that he is able to speak in foreign languages, yet, many people understand for him to be saying this.
The Apostle St. Paul spoke at least 4 languages. He used them as he needed to Evangelize. I don’t see any indication he used “fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning”. There’s no evidence that the phenomenon of “fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning” occurred among the body of orthodox believers within the Apostolic Church. There were some sects that practiced this, and such things happen in non-Christian religions in an effort to unite with the Divine (as a sort of mind empty mantra)
 
In general, when Catholics talk about the gift of tongues, they mean the real, universally understandable gift of tongues, like on Pentecost morning. St. Francis Xavier is one of the many saints who received this gift on occasions when he needed it to preach to people whose languages were totally unknown to him. (But the rest of the time, he had to study up, just like anybody else.)

There are also people who have a knack for learning languages quickly, which is natural but unusual. On occasion, people who do not have that knack seem to be given it, or learn a language almost instantly. This is not the gift of tongues, but it seems to be closely related in some ways; it is an infused knowledge of a language system and its specifics.

Glossolalia can be a true expression of spiritual ecstasy, or it can be just something that happens in big excited crowds. Pentecostals generally believe that glossolalia is the gift of tongues, but that’s because they believe people with glossolalia are speaking some human language that they just don’t know, or perhaps an angelic language. (Pretty much every investigator finds that they’re wrong, but there are some Pentecostals who claim to have received the gift of interpreting these glossolalic utterances. Also, there are persistent urban legends in the community of people showing up and recognizing the language of the glossolalia.)

In general, I would say there’s nothing wrong with glossolalia in itself. But it’s more in the realm of “groans too deep for words” than of speaking real languages in a miraculous way, or in speaking in a sort of telepathic or Babel-reversing way that can be understood by everyone.
 
Is speaking in tongues the ability to speak a foreign language or foreign languages without having studied them, whether existent or not (meaning those languages that no longer exist etc…) or is it:

Glossolalia - the fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning, in some cases as part of religious practice in which it is believed to be a divine language unknown to the speaker. - Wiki

There seems to be some confusion. I have understood speaking in tongues to mean the ability to speak in a language foreign to the speaker but not simply a common foreign language. When Paul writes that he has the gift of speaking in tongues, I don’t understand him to be saying that he is able to speak in foreign languages, yet, many people understand for him to be saying this.
Hi. Strictly a personal take, I do agree with you about speaking in tongue. I would use 1Cor 12 & 14 as scriptural references.

St Paul however says that speaking in tongue is a gift of the Holy Spirit (all the nine gifts mentioned in 1Cor 12 come from the same Spirit) and to be used (exercised) with the gift of interpretation of tongue.

Though it can be an entire another human language, it is more likely unknown to anyone except for the person who has the gift of its interpretation. And according to St Paul, it is better to just keep silent if there is no one interpreting. So the usage of the gift of speaking in tongue is quite clear here, I think. It is for prophesying, speaking God message. Not to be confused with foretelling the future. Prophecy terminology as being used in the Renewal is not foretelling.

In practice, there is also such thing as when we pray and sing in tongue. These do not need any interpretation, as we are merely praying to God. If that is the case, then they are not the ones referred to in 1Cor 12 and 14.

So what are they? If they are authentically coming from God, then the closest reference would be what St Paul says in Rom 8:26. The Holy Spirit helps us to pray in words we cannot understand.

There is admittedly no clear cut way of differentiating speaking and praying/singing in tongue. One can pray over a person in tongue and there would be somebody interpreting what is in the prayer, thus the speaking in tongue is being used as a prayer rather than a prophecy.

In all that, exercising the gift must be discerned. Gifts must be subjected to the test, be it tongue or prophecy, to be confident that they are from the Holy Spirit. These are by those who have the gift of discernment of the spirit.

Again, the final test would always be time - time only will tell. In the Renewal where there are community of Christians, such utterances of prophecy are being recorded to be referred to in the future of how God works in their lives.

Then there are marks of the Holy Spirit - growth, fruits of the Holy Spirit, order instead of confusion, peace and fruit of our work.

Thus the exercise of the gifts have to come together with the life in the Holy Spirit - one really has to lead the Christian life being led by the Holy Spirit.

These are some of the elements where gift of the Holy Spirit can thrive and give power.

I am wary at attempt to explain the gift of tongue scientifically or linguistically as we can’t always do that with things of the Holy Spirit. He moves as He will, it is a mystery but we know because of its power which is beyond what we can do.
 
1 Corinthians 14: 13-15 is the contrast between the Holy Spirit’s common gift of praying to God in Tongues and the Holy Spirit’s classical gifts of Tongues and Interpretation. link. usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14

13
Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray to be able to interpret.
14
[For] if I pray in a tongue, my spirit* is at prayer but my mind is unproductive.
15
So what is to be done? I will pray with the spirit, but I will also pray with the mind. I will sing praise with the spirit, but I will also sing praise with the mind.

From the linked book on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, Chapter Six, page 51 and following.
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf
  1. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE, THEREFORE, BETWEEN PRAYING IN TONGUES AND THE GIFT OF TONGUES?
    There are quite a number of differences.
    Prayer tongues:
    a) Are a permanent gift.
    b) Seem to be given to all.
    c) Need not be followed by interpretation.
    d) Can be used in communal praying or singing.
    e) Are usually a prayer of praise and thanksgiving.
    f) Are meant primarily for the person’s own spiritual growth.
On the other hand, the gift of tongues:
a) Is a passing manifestation of God’s power.
b) Seems to be given only to those with a ministry of tongues.
c) Should always be followed by interpretation.
d) Should be used alone, and not in common with others.
e) Is not limited to a prayer of praise, but can take diverse forms.
f) Is meant primarily to release God’s message to the community.
  1. WHY IS THIS DISTINCTION IMPORTANT?
    Unless the distinction is clear, a number if misunderstandings arise concerning both prayer tongues and the gift of tongues. Three mistakes seem prevalent:
a) First, 1 Corinthians, chapter 12, Verse 10 (“One receives the gift of tongues”), which refers to the gift of tongues, is frequently misunderstood to refer to prayer tongues.Thus many feel that only a few are meant to pray in tongues.

b) Secondly, the rules for interpretation following the gift of tongues in 1 Corinthians, Chapter 14 can mistakenly be applied to prayer tongues and to the false conclusion that interpretation must follow the community’s prayer in tongues.

c) Thirdly, a person who is truly being moved by God to the gift of tongues might be unaware that God wants to use him in this way and thus be inhibited in yielding to the gift.
 
grannymh,

I just want to take a moment to thank you once again (as I did on the other thread regarding this topic forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1024277) for pointing out the distinction between praying in tongues and speaking in tongues as the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Paul is the apostle I am closest to spiritually, and I know him as a bishop and my guide and teacher. I could not possibly disagree with him, I much rather recognize my ignorance or put something aside I don’t quite understand way before I take the position of disagreeing with Paul. What you point out help me a lot in my understanding. I, for instance, found it difficult to understand where were the interpreters? But, now I understand a person can pray in tongues and when a person prays in tongues it need not be interpreted. I also understand now, there is actually no conflict in ‘praying’ in tongues in public given the distinction you have pointed. I couldn’t understand why Paul was against ‘praying’ in tongues in public, but, he is not, he is against speaking in tongues in public; specifically at church. Capito!

That said, I will take the day to read the link you provided and read your post carefully until I clearly understand and it sinks in. I also want to confirm the Church makes this distinction and it must because Padre Fortea is a pious faithful and he has ‘prayed’ in tongues in public. youtube.com/watch?v=_aSwPID5AZA The poor Padre Fortea, he shares with the public on another video that when he went to a charismatic conference of sort, he pryaed to the Holy Spirit to give him any gift but the gift of tongues. He just could not relate and he considered it strange as many do. Padre Fortea shares that in that meeting he was given the gift of tongues. He has accepted the gift. I think when he says the gift of tongues; he is referring to the gift of ‘praying’ in tongues.

I skimmed thru an article on New Advent on glossolalia and I will read that more carefully this after noon along with what you have provided and get back to this thread. I have to read that article carefully and understand what it being said there. It seems as though scholars do not agree about what type of glossolalia the Corinthians had and if it was the same as that experienced in Jerusalem. Also, scholars have argued that the type of tongues (which Padre Fortea is speaking in that video) is not biblical etc… So, I will be reading that more closely. In the interim period, feel free to shine any light you wish. 🙂
Faithful adherence to the text of Sacred Scripture makes it obligatory to reject those opinions which turn the charism of tongues into little more than infantile babbling (Eichhorn, Schmidt, Neander), incoherent exclamations (Meyer), pythonic utterances (Wiseler), or prophetic demonstrations of the archaic kind (see 1 Samuel 19:20, 24). The unalloyed charism was as much an exercise of the intelligence as of the emotions. Languages or dialects, now kainais (Mark 16:17) for their present purpose, and now spontaneously borrowed by the conservative Hebrew from Gentile foreigners (eteroglossois, cheilesin eteron, 1 Corinthians 14:21), were used as never before. But they were understood even by those who used them. Most Latin commentators have believed the contrary, but the ancient Greeks, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Theodoret, and others who were nearer the scene, agree to it and the testimony of the texts as above studied seems to bear them out.
Corinthian Abuses (I Corinthians 14 passim).—Medieval and modern writers wrongly take it for granted that the charism existed permanently at Corinth — as it did nowhere else—and that St. Paul, in commending the gift to the Corinthians, therewith gave his guaranty that the characteristics of Corinthian glossolaly were those of the gift itself. Traditional writers in overlooking this point place St. Luke at variance with St. Paul, and attribute to the charism properties so contrary as to make it inexplicable and prohibitively mysterious. There is enough in St. Paul to show us that the Corinthian peculiarities were ignoble accretions and abuses. They made of “tongues” a source of schism in the Church and of scandal without (14:23). The charism had deteriorated into a mixture of meaningless inarticulate gabble (9, 10) with an element of uncertain sounds (7, 8), which sometimes might be construed as little short of blasphemous (12:3). The Divine praises were recognized now and then, but the general effect was one of confusion and disedification for the very unbelievers for whom the normal gift was intended (14:22, 23, 26). The Corinthians, misled not by insincerity but by simplicity and ignorance (20), were actuated by an undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God (15). What today purports to be the “gift of tongues” at certain Protestant revivals is a fair reproduction of Corinthian glossolaly, and shows the need there was in the primitive Church of the Apostle’s counsel to do all things “decently, and according to order” (40).
In New Advent glossolalia is defined differently than on Wikipedia:
A supernatural gift of the class gratiae gratis datae, designed to aid in the outer development of the primitive Church. The theological bearing of the subject is treated in the article CHARISMATA. The present article deals with its exegetical and historical phases.

newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm
 
Charismata:
(4) The gift of tongues and (5) the interpretation of tongues (collectively known as glossolalia) are described at length in 1 Corinthians 14. In what did glossolalia exactly consist?
It was speaking, opposed to being silent (1 Corinthians 14:28), yet
not always in a foreign tongue. On the day of Pentecost the Apostles did indeed speak the various languages of their hearers, but the still unbaptized Gentiles in the house of Cornelius “speaking with tongues, and magnifying God” (Acts 10:46) and the twelve newly baptized Ephesians speaking with tongues and prophesying (Acts 19:6) had no reason for using any strange tongue. Again, instead of the expression “speaking with tongues” Paul uses the alternative phrases, “speaking in a tongue”, “by a tongue”, “with a tongue” (1 Corinthians 14:2, 4, 13, 14, 27). The object of the gift was not to convey ideas to listeners, but to speak to God in prayer (ibid., 2, 4), an object for which a foreign language is unnecessary. Lastly — and this argument seems conclusive — Paul compares glossolalia, as regards its effect, with talking in an unknown language; it is, therefore, not itself an unknown language (ibid., 11).
It was an articulate language, for the speaker prays, sings, gives thanks (ibid., 14-17).
The speaker was in a kind of trance — “If I pray in a tongue, my spirit [pneuma] prayeth, but my understanding [nous, mens] is without fruit” (ibid., 14).
on unbelievers glossolalia made the impression of the marvellous; perhaps it recalled to their mind the religious ravings of hierophants: “Wherefore (i.e. because unintelligible) tongues are for a sign, not to believers, but to unbelievers. If . . . all speak with tongues, and there come in unlearned persons or infidels, will they not say that you are mad?” (1 Corinthians 14:22, 23).
The gift of tongues is inferior to that of prophecy: “Greater is he that prophesieth, than he that speaketh with tongues: unless perhaps he interpret, that the church may receive edification” (ibid., 5).
The charisma of interpretation is, then, the necessary complement of glossolalia; when interpretation is not forthcoming, the speaker with tongues shall hold his peace (ibid., 13, 27, 28). Interpretation is the work either of the speaker himself or of another (ibid., 27). It takes the form of an intelligible address; the explanation was to follow the speech with tongues as regularly as the discerning of spirits succeeded prophecy (1 Corinthians 14:28, 29).
Among the Fathers it is sententia communissima that the speaking with tongues was a speaking in foreign languages. Their interpretation is based upon the promise in Mark 16:1, “They shall speak with new tongues”, and on its final fulfilment in the gift of tongues to the apostles (Acts 2:4). A new tongue, however, is not necessarily a foreign language, and a gift which had a special use on the day of Pentecost appears purposeless in meetings of people of one language. There are, besides, textual objections to the common opinion, although, it must be owned, not quite convincing [see the second point above]. Many explanations of this obscure charisma are proposed, but not one of them is free from objection. It may indeed be that there is some truth in all of them. St. Paul speaks of “kinds of tongues”, which may imply that glossolalia manifested itself in many forms: e.g. in the form of foreign languages when required by circumstances, as with the Apostles; as a new language — “a kind of speech distinctive of the spiritual life and distinguished from common speech, which to the exuberant feeling of the new faith appeared unsuitable for intercourse with God” (Weizsacker); or as the manifestation of the unspeakable groanings of the Spirit, asking for us, and causing us to cry, “Abba, Father” (Romans 8:15, 26).
newadvent.org/cathen/03588e.htm
 
St Paul however says that speaking in tongue is a gift of the Holy Spirit (all the nine gifts mentioned in 1Cor 12 come from the same Spirit) and to be used (exercised) with the gift of interpretation of tongue.
This is part of my confusion came in, because I know people ‘pray’ in tongues without an interpreter and so I could not reconcile what Paul is saying with ‘praying’ in tongues. But, grannymh pointed out the distinction and it is very helpful for the understanding. I just need to confirm it all with Church documents. It makes sense that one would not need an interpreter if one is praying to God in tongue.
Though it can be an entire another human language, it is more likely unknown to anyone except for the person who has the gift of its interpretation. And according to St Paul, it is better to just keep silent if there is no one interpreting. So the usage of the gift of speaking in tongue is quite clear here, I think. It is for prophesying, speaking God message. Not to be confused with foretelling the future. Prophecy terminology as being used in the Renewal is not foretelling.
I am getting the feeling based on the New Advent article, that Paul was reprimanding the Corinthians to some extent because they were ‘praying’ in tongues at church. The author of the article goes as far as to compare the Corinthians with the modern day Pentecostals. Tien, tien, I am still reading and learning here… I am going to take a look at what was happening in Corinth…
In practice, there is also such thing as when we pray and sing in tongue. These do not need any interpretation, as we are merely praying to God. If that is the case, then they are not the ones referred to in 1Cor 12 and 14.
This is the distinction I was not aware of, so I was having problems understanding Paul in 1 Corinthians. But, it seems as though the Corinthians were ‘praying’ in tongues and at that in public…🤷
So what are they? If they are authentically coming from God, then the closest reference would be what St Paul says in Rom 8:26. The Holy Spirit helps us to pray in words we cannot understand.
Romans 8:26Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Beautiful!
There is admittedly no clear cut way of differentiating speaking and praying/singing in tongue. One can pray over a person in tongue and there would be somebody interpreting what is in the prayer, thus the speaking in tongue is being used as a prayer rather than a prophecy.
Interesting, and what may seem like unintelligible syllables can actually be an unknown language. youtube.com/watch?v=_aSwPID5AZA
In all that, exercising the gift must be discerned. Gifts must be subjected to the test, be it tongue or prophecy, to be confident that they are from the Holy Spirit. These are by those who have the gift of discernment of the spirit.

Again, the final test would always be time - time only will tell. In the Renewal where there are community of Christians, such utterances of prophecy are being recorded to be referred to in the future of how God works in their lives.

Then there are marks of the Holy Spirit - growth, fruits of the Holy Spirit, order instead of confusion, peace and fruit of our work.

Thus the exercise of the gifts have to come together with the life in the Holy Spirit - one really has to lead the Christian life being led by the Holy Spirit.

These are some of the elements where gift of the Holy Spirit can thrive and give power.

I am wary at attempt to explain the gift of tongue scientifically or linguistically as we can’t always do that with things of the Holy Spirit. He moves as He will, it is a mystery but we know because of its power which is beyond what we can do.
Yes. Thank you for sharing.
 
Where is the distinction between “praying in tongues” and the forbidden-without-an-interpreter “speaking in tongues” in Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium?

I understand the terms are being distinguished now, why not clearly use another term then, to avoid outright confusion and mingling?

Also, as a major question - why does God need anyone to “pray in tongues” at all? It seems language is a human construct for communicating thoughts, ideas, etc. What use at all is it to “pray in tongues” to an unknown language to God - who already knows all languages? It seems more useful to use your native language and concentrate your intentions, rather than this.
 
grannymh,

I just want to take a moment to thank you once again (as I did on the other thread regarding this topic forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1024277) for pointing out the distinction between praying in tongues and speaking in tongues as the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Paul is the apostle I am closest to spiritually, and I know him as a bishop and my guide and teacher. I could not possibly disagree with him, I much rather recognize my ignorance or put something aside I don’t quite understand way before I take the position of disagreeing with Paul. What you point out help me a lot in my understanding. I, for instance, found it difficult to understand where were the interpreters? But, now I understand a person can pray in tongues and when a person prays in tongues it need not be interpreted. I also understand now, there is actually no conflict in ‘praying’ in tongues in public given the distinction you have pointed. I couldn’t understand why Paul was against ‘praying’ in tongues in public, but, he is not, he is against speaking in tongues in public; specifically at church. Capito!
A clarification of terminology is needed. Paul considers that an assembly is public because an unbeliever or uninstructed person can come in. The rules of order (1 Corinthians 26 and following) does not refer to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. There may have been instances of praying in Tongues at Mass. However, the clarity of the rules of order indicate that what we call Church is not what Paul was describing.

We consider the classical gifts as ministries. Paul’s description of these ministries uses an assembly (not the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass). When we look at the Saints, we find some of the classical gifts in their personal lives. I trust 1 Corinthians 12: 11 where the word individually is used. From what I have learned, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal has deep respect for the gifts of the Holy Spirit .These are not seen in the same light as a kind of carnival.
 
Also, as a major question - why does God need anyone to “pray in tongues” at all?
It is the reason that Jesus gave us the Our Father.
It seems language is a human construct for communicating thoughts, ideas, etc. What use at all is it to “pray in tongues” to an unknown language to God - who already knows all languages? It seems more useful to use your native language and concentrate your intentions, rather than this.
Every person has the right to choose their native language as the means of communicating with the Creator.
 
This is part of my confusion came in, because I know people ‘pray’ in tongues without an interpreter and so I could not reconcile what Paul is saying with ‘praying’ in tongues. But, grannymh pointed out the distinction and it is very helpful for the understanding. I just need to confirm it all with Church documents. It makes sense that one would not need an interpreter if one is praying to God in tongue.
Most likely I will not understand all the “church documents” you have provided. :o

There has been abuse of the Holy Spirit gifts since the beginning. If the beloved Corinthians had not gone astray, we would not have chapters 12 & 14 of 1 Corinthians. If some of the first Catholic “charismatics” in the 1960’s/70’s had not gone astray, we would not have today’s firm Catholic foundation of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal under the spiritual care of our Bishops. From what I can see, objectors came back because of the Catholicism of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

One more historic point. There are many people who yielded to the Holy Spirit and received the common gift of praying in tongues. They never became members of Renewal prayer groups, etc. But, they are serving their parish as lectors, committee members, bringing Holy Communion to the sick and dying. I, personally, yielded to the Holy Spirit in quick silent prayer tongues as I stepped into a hospital room.
 
Most likely I will not understand all the “church documents” you have provided. :o
Ha, ha. Here I was waiting for you to provide Church documents regarding the distinction you noted. No matter. I will look into it. I think there must be something to what you are saying as I consider Padre Fortea would not be ‘praying’ in tongue in public if it is contrary to the teachings of the Church nor would his Bishop allow him to do so, never mind upload a recording of it on Youtube. So, I will look into it. 🙂

It is not really a ‘document’ that I have provided, it’s just some quotes and the links to some sections covering this topic on the Catholic Encyclopedia which has been uploaded and is searchable at www.newadvent.com The article raises more question for me than it really answers, but this is good too. 😃 I did know the Corinthians were being a little problematic and this is the reason Paul notes the need for ‘edification.’

“Objectors” of what, came back?
One more historic point. There are many people who yielded to the Holy Spirit and received the common gift of praying in tongues. They never became members of Renewal prayer groups, etc. But, they are serving their parish as lectors, committee members, bringing Holy Communion to the sick and dying. I, personally, yielded to the Holy Spirit in quick silent prayer tongues as I stepped into a hospital room.
Yes. Many people with Gifts of the Holy Spirit throughout the world remain independent of any group. I know one in who serves as, I forget what you call it. but at the altar helping with Mass. He has the gift of healing. People told me about him when they saw me suffer of excruciating pain caused by kidney stones (it felt as though someone had stuck a knife on my side and was turning it around). Well, he agreed to meet me and pray for me. Some neighbors joined in and we were all in his living room. He led the prayers, he called the Holy Spirit to come, and we started to pray beautiful Marian prayers. Then, a strong wind came in the room and everyone understood it was the Holy Spirit. I sat in the middle of the room, and he started to pray over me. I felt when he lifted his hands and asked the Holy Spirit and I think Mary too etc… to give me health (I forgot his exact words and all) I felt something heavy being lifted from me, but, when he lowered his hands it would fall back down. I told him of this, and he said, yes, had I been younger I could of have the strength with the power of the Holy Spirit to lift out.

Many people live at peace with their gifts and accept it as part and parcel of their faith. You don’t need to join a team to have a gift and live in peace and practice your faith.

Today, I learned something really interesting on account of this thread. I think it is on that New Advent article I linked to. I have a gift, I am not sure what it is though. I had it all my life, so I have thought all my life that people were born with a gift of the Holy Spirit. But, in that article it says that the gift is give/when given; at baptism. Whaoh!! I just never thought of that. I was baptized only days after I was born, so it must have been then.
 
Oops, pardon me. I ran out of editing time on post #14, but just want to note there is a ‘not’ missing in a sentence. It should read: I did not know the Corinthians were being a little problematic.

P.s. This whole idea about the gift being imparted at baptism is a great piece of information for me. Since, I alway had what ever gift it is that I have, I thought I was born with it and so were others with gifts. This made me think that anyone no matter what in the world could randomly be born with a gift from the Holy Spirit- but this piece of information may change my understanding…
 
It is the reason that Jesus gave us the Our Father.
The Lord gave us the Our Father in Aramaic (Abun d’bashmayo) not in a “fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning”. The entire prayer unites all people of Good Will and Faith. Individual expression of non-intercommunicative “fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning” do the opposite, does it not?
Even those who support it agree that its purpose is personal and not communal, nor for the building up of the holy Church.
Every person has the right to choose their native language as the means of communicating with the Creator.
Yes, but does ever person have the right to choose a non-language?
 
Just touching base, as I search for Church documents. I read a report on a couple of five years meeting with the Pentecostal.
  1. The manifestation of tongues was never entirely absent in the history of the Church, and is found in a notable way among Roman Catholics and other Christians involved in charismatic renewal, as well as among classical Pentecostals.
  2. It was agreed that every discussion about Christian glossolalia should be founded on Scripture. That some New Testament authors saw tongues as playing a role in the Christian life is indicated in various books of the Bible. (“and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance”. Acts 2:4) Acts 10:46; 19:6; Mark 16:17; 1 Cor 12:4; 10; 18; 14:2, 5, 22; Romans 8:26.
    vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/pentecostals/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19840509_final-report-pentecostals_en.html
In no.9 above we note that the Church is recognizing the existence of the manifestation of tongues in our current time as in the history of the Church. Well, what we find today, is not persons speaking in tongue in public with an interpreter, but, people ‘praying’ in tongue to God.

I’m searching… I know I will finally land at the footsteps of Pope John Paul the Great, as he was very close to the Holy Spirit. I’m going to see if he wrote about the distinction…

Here, it is noted that the distinction is made by the Pentecostal, but, it does not note the Church’s position:
259. The Apostle, Paul, raised a related question when he asked “Do all speak in tongues (me pantes glossais lalousin)?” in 1 Cor 12:30. The Apostle’s question clearly anticipated a negative response as was signaled by his use of the Greek negative, “me”. It also led Pentecostals to differentiate between the tongues received at the time of Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the charism or gift of tongues about which Paul wrote.[29] Thus, in many Pentecostal churches, the distinction is made between “evidential tongues” and the “gift of tongues”. They may be “the same in essence, but different in their purpose”. Some contend that the “evidential tongues” constitute a continuing “prayer language”, giving it a “devotional” quality, which may be undertaken privately and does not need interpretation while the “gift of tongues” is intended for public usage and, thus, requires interpretation (1 Cor 14:5, 13-17, 27-28). Another way to express this would be to say that phenomenologically these manifestations appear to be the same thing, but the purposes they serve, the ways they are exercised, and the way that they are discerned by the believing community are quite different. These are important discussions that have not yet been completely resolved in the Pentecostal community.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/eccl-comm-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20060101_becoming-a-christian_en.html

Still looking…
 
Even those who support it agree that its purpose is personal and not communal, nor for the building up of the holy Church.
I am not so sure about this, as it has been known that when unbelievers witness praying in tongues; people have been known to convert. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit via people who have been given the gift of speaking in tongues; serves the Church as witness to the faith and in turn in evangelization. It just needs to be discerned and guided by Bishops and priests.

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It seems as though in this matter, the Catholic Encyclopedia published in 1913 (?) which is the one on the New Advent website, is out date.

On Becoming a Christian: Insights from Scripture and Patristic Writings
With Some Contemporary Reflections
Report of the Fifth Phase of the International Dialogue Between Some Classical
Pentecostal Churches and Leaders and the Catholic Church (1998-2006)
The Birth of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal 223. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal came into being as one among several different manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the life of the church. Already, on the eve of the 20th century, Pope Leo XIII, taking up proposals made to him, wrote an Apostolic Exhortation (1895) and an Encyclical Letter (1897) in which he called for devotion to the Holy Spirit and recommended the nine days before Pentecost as a Novena of Prayer for the Holy Spirit: “for the renewal of the church, reunification of Christianity, renewal of society, and for a renewal of the face of the earth”. On 1 January 1901, Pope Leo XIII prayed the hymn to the Holy Spirit in the name of the whole church.
224. Over the course of the 20th century, the decisive influences in the growth of the Charismat

Renewal in the Catholic Church included liturgical renewal, a renewed emphasis on the biblical and patristic sources, new concern for Christian unity, shared responsibility of all the faithful for the church’s mission to the world, new theological and pastoral reflection on the working of the Holy Spirit, and a fresh appreciation of the church’s charismatic treasures (cf. Charismatic Community Renewal in the Catholic Church in the Federal Republic of Germany: The Spirit Gives Life, A Theological Guide, pp. 10-11).
225. In this context of the new awareness of the work of the Holy Spirit, the witness of classical Pentecostals and their teaching on Baptism in the Holy Spirit contributed to the beginning of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in 1967 in the United States. The early leaders of the renewal prayed for the experience of Baptism in the Holy Spirit and received it with many also speaking in tongues. Subsequently they reflected theologically on both their own experience and the Pentecostal doctrine of Baptism in the Holy Spirit and submitted their renewal movement to the guidance of the church’s pastors.
226. Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II, along with many individual bishops and Episcopal conferences, acknowledged the signs of grace present in the Renewal, at times expressing caution about certain practices that required spiritual discernment, and teaching that might not be consistent with that of the Catholic Church. Consequently the classical Pentecostal doctrine of Baptism in the Holy Spirit was not embraced as a whole without qualification. Since its beginning, the Charismatic Renewal has been warmly welcomed by the church’s leaders and more recently has received formal ecclesial recognition from Rome.24
Footnote:
24 With a Decree of 14 September 1993, the Pontifical Council for Laity gave formal recognition to the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services (ICCRS), as a body for the promotion of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and approved their Statutes.

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This was interesting and at times funny. But, I don’t know abou this comment regarding being baptized with the Holy Spirit… I understand the Church teaches we are baptized with the Holy Spirit at Baptism and Confirmation, right? arlingtonrenewal.org/tongues.html

Regarding my comment about the gifts of the Holy Spirits being bestowed (?) on a person at baptism, it’s nice to learn this but it does not establish that out of the Sacrament of Baptism the Holy Spirit does not give gifts and at that even to non-Christians.
 
What happened?
As I ministered to patients in the hospital, there was no doubt that I needed the help of the Holy Spirit. Thus, I prayed silently in tongues as I was about to enter the room. What happened? I used my gut instinct with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Sometimes, odd thoughts about how to minister to someone in the hospital would come to me. For example. During one of my visits, instead of the normal prayers for someone suffering, I asked the couple (she was seriously ill) to pray that God would give them the graces of the Sacrament of Matrimony. They recognized their love for each other and with that sustaining love they would understand and accept God’s will. Another time, a woman trusted me with her story. That I would consider a miracle because she asked to see a priest.

In other words, following my short silent tongues prayer as I was about to enter a hospital room, nothing happened that would be considered a major gift like a healing. Still, it seemed that special graces touched a person’s soul. That would be a true healing by the Holy Spirit…

Someone needing special graces is why we pray in our native language for that person. Praying for God’s action is what Prayer Warriors do. Refer to this CAF Forum. forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=86

Prayer is prayer. We ordinary folk need God. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal presents the common Holy Spirit gift of prayer Tongues as one means of praying for someone. It never teaches that other means of prayer should be discarded.

For me, praying in Tongues settles my nerves. It is definitely better than road rage. With Tongues, I do not have to worry that I skipped a word in the Our Father when I am about to meet a patient who is known for slapping anyone who is at the side of her bed. For me, the Our Father in my native tongue is precious.

/forumdisplay.php?f=86

Prayer is prayer. We ordinary folk need God. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal presents the common Holy Spirit gift of prayer Tongues as one means of praying for someone. It never teaches that other means of prayer should be discarded.

For me, praying in Tongues settles my nerves. It is definitely better than road rage. With Tongues, I do not have to worry that I skipped a word in the Our Father when I am about to meet a patient who is known for slapping anyone who is at the side of her bed.

When I am sharing the Catholic Charismatic Renewal with others, I often suggest that the word “renewal” needs to be taken seriously. Some of us get wrapped up in routines. The Renewal tells us that it is time to dig deep into all the meanings in the greatest prayer of all – the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
 
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