Is suffering ever pointless?

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tonyrey

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Does severe pain, for example, always serve a useful purpose?
 
I guess that depends on your definition of useful purpose.

I suppose in one sense, yes. Pain tells us when something is wrong. Even minor paper cuts and charlie horses are reporting SOMETHING is amiss.

In another sense, I don’t know if emotional pain is always useful. I don’t know if that tells us something is wrong in the same way. Maybe it does but I’d have to think about it some more.

I think in another sense though, pain is quite pointless. This toothache I’ve got is pointing to a problem, yes. But I know this problem exists. Alas, until the next enrollment comes around I go without insurance so there’s nothing I can do but endure it. This is a contrived example though - I suspect cancer patients make a better example. Why must they endure these diseases? Why do their cells reproduce out of control and cause them such suffering? I mean, the pain of chemo therapy in the first sense tells us something is wrong: chemo therapy is literally poisoning yourself - something is wrong. But having to endure the therapy at all, is there a point to that?

Christianity gives us a point - we all have our crosses to bear. We can offer it up. But that leads to the problem of evil. I’m assuming most folks here are going to grant that pain isn’t always evil though. Or, to live in a world where pain is a thing we need. I tend to disagree.
 
Rhubarb said:
I guess that depends on your definition of useful purpose.

I suppose in one sense, yes. Pain tells us when something is wrong. Even minor paper cuts and charlie horses are reporting SOMETHING is amiss.

In another sense, I don’t know if emotional pain is always useful. I don’t know if that tells us something is wrong in the same way. Maybe it does but I’d have to think about it some more.

I think in another sense though, pain is quite pointless. This toothache I’ve got is pointing to a problem, yes. But I know this problem exists. Alas, until the next enrollment comes around I go without insurance so there’s nothing I can do but endure it. This is a contrived example though - I suspect cancer patients make a better example. Why must they endure these diseases? Why do their cells reproduce out of control and cause them such suffering? I mean, the pain of chemo therapy in the first sense tells us something is wrong: chemo therapy is literally poisoning yourself - something is wrong. But having to endure the therapy at all, is there a point to that?

Christianity gives us a point - we all have our crosses to bear. We can offer it up. But that leads to the problem of evil. I’m assuming most folks here are going to grant that pain isn’t always evil though. Or, to live in a world where pain is a thing we need. I tend to disagree.
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The pain of an incurable disease is undoubtedly purposeless because it is no longer a defence mechanism.But in such a complex world how could pain be adjusted to fit individual circumstances?
 
Jesus to St. Faustina

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)
Jesus to Catalina:
The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

**Contemplate My wounds and see if there is anyone who has suffered as much as I, to show their love…

Contemplate for a moment these bloodstained hands and feet… This naked body, covered with wounds, with urine, and blood. Dirty… This head punctured by sharp thorns, soaked in sweat, full of dust, and covered in Blood…

Contemplate your Jesus, hanging on the Cross, without being able to make the slightest movement… naked, without fame, without honor, without liberty…

Contemplate Me in the image of the Christ that weeps and bleeds. There and in this way the world has Me.**
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http://s24.postimg.org/s91lh9u91/Crucifixion.jpg
Jesus to Catalina:
From Sinai to Calvary - loveandmercy.org/Eng-FSC-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

**4) "…In this profound pain which causes My sight to grow darker to the point that I can no longer see clearly those beings which I love and who remain at the foot of My agony, I know that Love has conquered, that it will conquer forever.
  1. “It is precisely because of that boundless love which, in the midst of My unfathomable suffering, I did not lose confidence in My Father. But rather, I was being overcome by immense joy in knowing that I was fulfilling His Will and, thus, demonstrating My Love for Him and for all mankind.”
  2. “…you can see and understand with greater ease, why human suffering makes sense when it is endured for love’s sake, desiring to fulfill the Divine Will. And it is that the greatest pain, as intense as it may be, does not diminish the joy in the heart of those who sweeten themselves with the greatest Love.” **
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Jesus to Catalina:
I Have Given My Life for You - loveandmercy.org/Eng-IHG-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

**10) I assure you that those who meditate on My sorrowful Passion will derive many Graces, because it is a treasure chest of infinitely enormous benefits.
  1. If you keep Me company while meditating on My Passion, I will make smooth your hardships, because as I have said, I always repay love with Love.**
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“And I saw the river over which every soul must pass to reach the kingdom of Heaven. And the name of that river was suffering… And I saw the boat which carries souls across the river. And the name of that boat was Love.” - St John of the Cross

Jesus to St Fauatina
"There is but one price at which souls are brought, and that is suffering united to My suffering on the cross. Pure love understands these words; carnal love will never understand them." (Diary, 324)
Jesus to Catalina:
From Sinai to Calvary - loveandmercy.org/Eng-FSC-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

Jesus said: **“Contemplate this scene, My beloved, and learn that My own cannot march through life without a cross. 4) “Go and tell the world what you are learning and, if they want to silence you, shout even louder. Do this for the sake of the power of the love that unites you to Me, which is as united as these two pieces of wood that form an instrument of salvation for all of humanity.
  1. “Tell the consecrated souls that the cross that they wear, is not only to adorn their chests or identify them superficially with Me. First they must gird themselves with the cross and learn to “make themselves comfortable” on it instead of running away from it. Tell them they cannot long for Tabor, if they have not first passed through Golgotha. It is here on the Cross where they will learn charity, humility, poverty of spirit and temperance in all acts of their lives. 6) “Assure them that I give proof and testimony that, the devil can be easily defeated from the experience of the cross. Contemplate Me: I am a true Man, in whom the flesh manifests its limitations, and true God, in demonstrating the relentless force of Agape Love.
  2. “Pray for those who do not know of sufferings, for it is certain that they are not among My own…Observe these two condemned ones who flank Me and meditate on the ways that men carry their crosses. 8) “Some carry it with rage, with bitterness, amidst much grief. He who carries a cross in similar circumstances and with those sentiments, carries for sure a cross, which has no sense because instead of drawing him closer, it pushes him away from Me. Usually that is the cross of those who refuse to understand the meaning of suffering, which takes on supernatural dimensions. That is the cross of the thief at My left, it is the cross which will always be heavy and will never be able to redeem.
  3. “Dismas, on My right, accepts his cross with resignation and even with dignity; he assumes it at first because he has no other recourse. But suddenly, when he recognizes Me and knows that I Am the Son of God, he accepts that cross, acknowledging himself as a sinner, and asking that through it, Mercy remembers him. 10) “Finally, you have Me here in front of you, embracing My redeeming Cross to teach all of you to carry yours. I invite you to be co-redeemers with Me, making reparation for your own sins and those of all mankind. Know that this way of carrying the cross is reflected in your conduct, when before you are difficulties and pains and through them you draw closer to Me and you profit from them to give testimony before men. When you embrace your cross, you can feel that the only thing you desire is strength, because the thirst for souls consumes you."**
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Please continue to next post -
 
Jesus to Catalina:
The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

**17) My children, there are no glorious crosses on earth; they are all wrapped in mystery, in darkness, in exasperation: in mystery, because you do not understand it; in darkness, because they blind the mind; and in exasperation, because they strike blows in precisely those places where one does not wish to be struck.
  1. …I tell you that not only did I carry the wooden cross that led Me to Glory, but, above all, that invisible but permanent Cross that was formed by the crosses of your sins. Yes, and of your sufferings. Everything that you suffer was the object of My sorrows, for I not only suffered to give you Redemption, but also for what you should suffer now. Look at the love that unites Me to you; in it have the confirmation of My Holy Will and unite yourselves to Me by observing how I behaved in the midst of unlimited bitterness.
  2. I have taken as a symbol a piece of wood, a cross. I have carried it with great love, for the good of all. I have suffered real affliction so that all could rejoice in Me. But today, how many believe in the One who truly did love you and does love you? Contemplate Me in the image of the Christ that weeps and bleeds. There and in this way the world has Me.**
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Jesus to Catalina:
Divine Providence - loveandmercy.org/Eng-DP-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

On the 29th day the Lord told me: **“Gold is tested in the burning crucible. Everything that all of you are living is necessary for growth… I love you very much. Believe it and love Me more. Even if you think that you are incapable of loving more, continue to exert yourself in that for love is like a rubber container that expands, with the only difference being that the container never explodes, it is refined until it becomes noble material.” **
  1. Later He continued: 4) “My desire is for every soul to be holy so it may come to Me at the moment of its death and remain in the Kingdom that the Father has prepared for it from all eternity. However, I desire to purify that soul even on earth, so that, as much as possible, it not be necessary to purge that which remained to be cleansed in life. That is why when a person is well disposed and desires to know Me, to love Me, to make Me known and to be purified on earth, I do my work as a potter and shape that clay, sometimes adding some more water to refine the mass, other times hitting or squeezing the mass to soften it, and when it is ready, I cook it in the burning oven of the virtues, in order to make that piece soft to the touch, shiny and worthy to be presented and offered to a King.”
  2. Even though I was certain of having seen my mother’s journey towards the Throne of the Lord, I kept wondering if her soul had to expiate for a time in Purgatory… It was then that the Lord told me: **6) “Why do you allow the devil to sow doubts in your mind? Trust and pray… None of you will understand until you are on this side, but even if you are almost certain (as I have revealed to certain souls) that your deceased ones are already enjoying Paradise, continue praying for them because in this way you complete what they lacked or increase what the souls of other persons close to you presented in their hands when they appeared before Me. 7) “When I said, ‘Come to Me all you who are burdened or tired…’ I also said it to you. Many things, which I allow or send, you sometimes find silly or unjust. Faith has to teach all of you that I plan everything for good. Remember that the soul, who maintains its peace and faith in the face of adversity, has the right to expect My Love and its benefits.” **
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Jesus to Catalina:
Divine Providence - loveandmercy.org/Eng-DP-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

During my prayers on the 23rd, the Lord, knowing that I was feeling very much alone, spoke to me and said: **2) “My beloved, here I am, responding to your call. However, not even for an instant have I abandoned you… You are seemingly alone but I am with you. 3) “Think of My anguish in the garden; I felt alone. 4) “Are you afraid? So was I. 5) “Do you need to talk to someone? Talk to Me. 6) “Do you need a hand to caress you? Here are Mine. 7) “Do you need a shoulder on which to cry? Do so on Mine and I will dry your tears with My kisses… Your tears will blend with Mine. I am not indifferent to your sufferings.
  1. “Do you need someone’s company to pray with you? Here you have My Saints and My Angels… Offer Me your patience in this life of exile and, thus, each time that I come looking for you, you will be free of grief and able to enjoy great interior peace.**
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Jesus to Catalina:
The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

24) I said: My Father; I did not say: My God. And what I want to teach you when your heart suffers most is that you should say “My Father” and ask Him comfort. Show Him your sufferings, your fears, and with moaning, remind Him that you are His children. Tell Him that your soul can bear no more! Ask trustingly like children and wait, for your Father will help you; He will give you and the souls entrusted to you, the necessary strength to go through this your tribulation.
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I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
From Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen–
Such is the purpose of life! To redeem ourselves in union with Christ; to apply His merits to our souls by being like Him in all things, even to His death on the Cross. He passed through His consecration on the Cross that we might now pass through ours in the Mass. There is nothing more tragic in all the world than wasted pain. Think of how much suffering there is in hospitals, among the poor, and the bereaved. Think also of how much of that suffering goes to waste! How many of those lonesome, suffering, abandoned, crucified souls are saying with our Lord at the moment of consecration, “This is my body. Take it”? And yet that is what we all should be saying at that second: I give myself to God. Here is my body – take it. Here is my blood – take it. Here is my soul, my will, my energy, my strength, my property, my wealth – all that I have: it is yours – take it! Consecrate it! Offer it! Offer it with thyself to the Heavenly Father in other that He, looking down on this great sacrifice, may see only, His beloved Son, in whom He is well pleased. Transmute the poor bread of my life into thy divine life, swirl the wine of my wasted life into thy divine spirit; unite my broken heart with thy heart; change my cross into a crucifix.
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Let not my abandonment and my sorrow and my bereavement go to waste. Gather up the fragments, and as the drop of water is absorbed by the wine at the offertory of the Mass, let my life be absorbed in thine; let my little cross be entwined with the great cross so that I may purchase the joys of everlasting happiness in union with thee.
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Suffering doesn’t have to be pointless. As Catholics, we have the opportunity to unite out suffering with Christ’s. We can offer our suffering to him for a special intention, or the souls in purgatory. That doesn’t mean the pain will go away, but it means you will endure it for the sake of a specific intention. That gives it meaning.
 
seagal said:
Suffering doesn’t have to be pointless. As Catholics, we have the opportunity to unite out suffering with Christ’s. We can offer our suffering to him for a special intention, or the souls in purgatory. That doesn’t mean the pain will go away, but it means you will endure it for the sake of a specific intention. That gives it meaning.
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This is one of many reasons (but up there in the top 3 or 5) that I am Catholic.
 
Suffering is mostly pointless, except as “used” toward penance.

IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA
 
tonyrey said:
The pain of an incurable disease is undoubtedly purposeless because it is no longer a defence mechanism.
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Oftentimes people will experince no pain after having great pain, before they die. The body no longer has the ability to receive pain signals. So, pain does have a purpose even if a person is terminal, for as long as we are able to feel pain, we are alive. Survival is one of the strongest natural impulses, which is not abated unless and until the body can no long feel pain. If we understand such things it makes it easier to deal with, merely on the natural/physical level, let alone any other level.

We are not bodies only, but souls and intellects, as well. Being able to preceive that that pain may lead to death is what often increases the suffering. Infants who have been trapped in earthquake ruins often fare better after days of being imprisoned than older people who know what is happening to them. We have to take into account the psychological effects, as well as the physical, and, of course, the spiritual maturity of the person in pain.
But in such a complex world how could pain be adjusted to fit individual circumstances?
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There are many methods for controlling pain. Just as a pain specialist.

I’ll give you my own situation as an example. I suffer from FMS. I don’t take pills unless I have a serious flare-up, but I feel pain all the time. I control my pain by how much strain I put on my body from day to day. For example, I let go of stress, giving it to God; I do just so much physical work at a time (the dust bunnies and I have become good friends); and I realize that by offering my small sufferings with those of Christ, I can help others who are suffering with all the ailments of mind, body, soul, and spirit that mankind is subject to. No matter how great or small the suffering it can have meaning if we want it to have meaning. What good does it do anyone, physically, psychologically or spiritually to wallow in our pain and feel sorry for ourselves? It’s self-defeating. Better to let God help us by his gift of offering it, in justice, along with his Son’s.
 
midori said:
From Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen–
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That’s beautiful. What an amazing writer. I can think of several threads that could benefit from this post.
Mind if I reference it sometime?

Peace
 
tonyrey said:
Does severe pain, for example, always serve a useful purpose?
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Only God would know this for sure. Perhaps we should abandon pain medicine, and hand out baseball bats so others can kindheartedly cause us pain!
 
Sacred_Heart said:
All suffering is pointless and unnecessary. Take it from someone who suffers severe mental illness.
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I think you are right, it was all pointless and unnecessary. It was mankind who brought disorder and suffering into creation by our pride and disobedience. It was never the will of our Creator, but we live with the consequences of our human race’s own actions committed by our collective freewill just as we live with the consequences, good and bad, of our own individual behavior.

The Creator in his mercy has provided us with a path for mankind’s redemption and healing if we choose to accept it. If we reject the Creator’s plan for redemption the suffering we brought into our lives will go on eternally and get much worse once all that is good that comes from the Creator absents itself from our lives because of that rejection.
 
Sacred_Heart said:
All suffering is pointless and unnecessary. Take it from someone who suffers severe mental illness.
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I’m sorry you feel like that but it’s understandable in your situation. I shall pray that you recover soon. God bless you.

BTW I sing in a choir at a church dedicated to the Sacred Heart. 🙂
 
tonyrey said:
Does severe pain, for example, always serve a useful purpose?
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No. Any pain we go through can be offered up to Our Lord on the Cross who went through the worst pain any person could go through. When we offer up our sufferings, we grow in virtue and holiness. The more we suffer here on earth, the less time we would spend in purgatory. The more we suffer here on earth, the higher merit we will have in heaven.
God love you.
Mary, Our Queen and Our Mother, Ora Pro Nobis!

PRAY THE ROSARY EVERYDAY (It takes 15-25minutes) We all have time!
 
tonyrey said:
I don’t think Jesus expects us to do that, Robert! 🙂
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I truly believe that suffering often leads to a greater good, but to make that a blanket statement is probably untrue. The dangers of this belief is people becoming immune to the sufferings of others, thinking that it’s somehow good. I understand that the superiors of various religious orders sometimes withdrew pain medicine to some of its members believing that the increased suffering was good for them, but who am I to say one way or the other.
 
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