Is suffering ever pointless?

[oldcelt]

Using the Socratic method for a moment…would you also say that happiness is the consequence of being alive for any given length of time?

I don’t think that would follow in all cases. Some people seem almost incapable of finding even brief moments of happiness. I would say that your contention would apply to most…most humans that I have known have or had a tendency to seek happiness.

John

 

[Michael19682]

I don’t think that would follow in all cases. Some people seem almost incapable of finding even brief moments of happiness. I would say that your contention would apply to most…most humans that I have known have or had a tendency to seek happiness.

John

If suffering then is more prevalent, or as it seems from you experience, difficult to dispel than happiness, is suffering or contending with it the purpose of this transient life?

 

[oldcelt]

If suffering then is more prevalent, or as it seems from you experience, difficult to dispel than happiness, is suffering or contending with it the purpose of this transient life?

Life simply is in my belief system…no real purpose that I can see, except, maybe, to hopefully leave the place a little better than we found it… The best we can do is find the moments of happiness where they are.

John

 

[Ben_Quincy]

Separate thread created to discuss eternal suffering:

Is eternal suffering pointless?

 

[Michael19682]

Does severe pain, for example, always serve a useful purpose?

Hi tonyrey,

I pulled up this thread because I found a practical, useful answer.
I am suffering here to help teach someone a lesson, say, even by taking the risk of posting this message when some one other person or persons will reject and scold me to eternity’s end. Since I cannot help effectuate change even by my best effort for that person, who up to now we have been calling the “unrepentant,” then in a practical way I 1) dishearten myself, 2) set an example of futility for others, and 3) possibly even harm myself by trying to fructify the barren fig tree, which after yet another year of watering and manure yields no fruit.

 

[tonyrey]

Hi tonyrey,

I pulled up this thread because I found a practical, useful answer.
I am suffering here to help teach someone a lesson, say, even by taking the risk of posting this message when some one other person or persons will reject and scold me to eternity’s end. Since I cannot help effectuate change even by my best effort for that person, who up to now we have been calling the “unrepentant,” then in a practical way I 1) dishearten myself, 2) set an example of futility for others, and 3) possibly even harm myself by trying to fructify the barren fig tree, which after yet another year of watering and manure yields no fruit.

In other words we can make suffering serve a useful purpose even if it is pointless. We may seem to fail but our failures are an illusion. Our Lord’s suffering was really pointless from a practical point of view because it was unnecessary and unproductive. Those who were responsible thought it would deter others from following His example but it had the opposite effect. “The blood of the martyrs was the seed of the Church” - Tertullian. The Passion is the supreme example of suffering being transformed into a blessing rather than a curse. It is the foundation of the values of modern civilisation and has led to one third of the people in the world being Christians.

 

[ANV]

We only suffer because we were born.

 

[tonyrey]

We only suffer because we were born.

Would you prefer not to have been born?

 

[ANV]

Would you prefer not to have been born?

Indeed.

As it is mentioned before:

Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 “I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.”

Too much “negativity” in the Bible right? Must be an atheist who wrote that one

 

[Lea101]

Indeed.

As it is mentioned before:

Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 “I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.”

Too much “negativity” in the Bible right? Must be an atheist who wrote that one

Not an atheist…but to never exist would be a dream come true.

You won’t be losing out on anything because you are not even there to realize anything.

Which is why a small part of me wishes that atheism is true. When you die…that’s it. Not even a smallest chance of suffering in the afterlife as well

 

[reggieM]

Does severe pain, for example, always serve a useful purpose?

God gives purpose to everything. The ‘utility’ of such purposes are known to Him and sometimes to us.

We, however, may not find purpose in anything. We may also not find anything useful.

If we try to see things from God’s perspective we can find purpose.

If we don’t believe that God exists, then nothing really matters anyway.

 

[ANV]

Not an atheist…but to never exist would be a dream come true.

You won’t be losing out on anything because you are not even there to realize anything.

Which is why a small part of me wishes that atheism is true. When you die…that’s it. Not even a smallest chance of suffering in the afterlife as well

I was joking about my latest sentence, tonyrey might understand it

That true, I’m not only convinced that there is no life after death, but I’m also happy that there isn’t.

 

[ANV]

If we don’t believe that God exists, then nothing really matters anyway.

So untrue, we matter because we’re alive and we care, we have many things that matter for us

Making such false assumption that if you don’t believe in gods then nothing matter is very incorrect.

 

[STT]

Does severe pain, for example, always serve a useful purpose?

Not always.

 

[reggieM]

So untrue, we matter because we’re alive and we care, we have many things that matter for us

Making such false assumption that if you don’t believe in gods then nothing matter is very incorrect.

If God doesn’t exist, why do you matter? What difference would it make if you were never born? What difference would it be in 100 years from now - why should anyone care?

If your origin ultimately is accidental – from a blind, unintelligent source - then nothing matters. Whether you or anyone else lives or exists has no meaning.

 

[tonyrey]

If God doesn’t exist, why do you matter? What difference would it make if you were never born? What difference would it be in 100 years from now - why should anyone care?

If your origin ultimately is accidental – from a blind, unintelligent source - then nothing matters. Whether you or anyone else lives or exists has no meaning.

And it would be a crime to have children!

 

[tonyrey]

I was joking about my latest sentence, tonyrey might understand it

That true, I’m not only convinced that there is no life after death, but I’m also happy that there isn’t.

Being happy implies you are enjoying life - at least some of the time. Are you usually miserable? I ask because miserable people don’t usually joke about life!

 

[ANV]

If God doesn’t exist, why do you matter? What difference would it make if you were never born? What difference would it be in 100 years from now - why should anyone care?

If your origin ultimately is accidental – from a blind, unintelligent source - then nothing matters. Whether you or anyone else lives or exists has no meaning.

Because I’m alive, I have feelings and I care, what you mentioned has anything to with whether there is a god or not, please be logical, whatever the reason be for us to be here, we are here and we’re sentient, not robots or rocks, this changes nothing on that manner.

 

[ANV]

And it would be a crime to have children!

I don’t understand the point of these illogical sarcasm just to tease without disproving any point, only myths, that me or others not believing in any god means that we don’t care of feel or form morality.

 

[ANV]

If God doesn’t exist, why do you matter? What difference would it make if you were never born? What difference would it be in 100 years from now - why should anyone care?

If your origin ultimately is accidental – from a blind, unintelligent source - then nothing matters. Whether you or anyone else lives or exists has no meaning.

Because I’m alive, I have feelings and I care, what you mentioned has anything to with whether there is a god or not, please be logical, whatever the reason be for us to be here, we are here and we’re sentient, not robots or rocks, this changes nothing on that manner.

And it would be a crime to have children!

I don’t understand the point of these illogical sarcasm just to tease without disproving any point, only myths, that me or others not believing in any god means that we don’t care of feel or form morality.

Being happy implies you are enjoying life - at least some of the time. Are you usually miserable? I ask because miserable people don’t usually joke about life!

Would glad be a better word? I can be happy sometimes.