Is the battle over same sex marriage over?

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peduzzi89 said:
Well, Kristie, about the issue of abortion - that is a different battle. I am totally against abortion, but the point of political officials is not to define what is moral, but to protect your rights (one of which is the ability to define for yourself what is moral if you so choose).
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Yes, in theory that’s how it’s supposed to work…but if I can’t trust the politicians on such a no brainer, how am I to believe that they know what’s best for me?

Here’s another example…a certain governor gave a thumbs up to transgender students being able to use the facilities of their chosen gender. What about the rights of MY daughters to not be subject to a biological male sharing their bathroom? (or vice-versa) In it’s haste to make sure that the LBGT community is protected, they are violating the rights of the rest of us.

We’re seeing a lot of tunnel vision when it comes to these issues, and it’s important for the politicians to hear both sides of an issue, without assuming that those who disagree with them are just a bunch of hate mongers.
 
To Spencer, I would say that divorce undermines marriage far more than same sex marriage ever would because it changes the commitment and love that is required when going into marriage - something that same sex couples could have just as much as heterosexual couples. But that doesn’t even matter because this is a political battle and not a religious one. The LGBT community is only fighting for the rights associated with marriage, not the religious acceptance. There are enough churches that accept homosexuality that the Catholic Church will never be required to condone it anyway. To Kristie, I agree actually, I think he just did that to avoid faux pas. I think that everyone’s rights should be protected. What the LGBT community pushes for is unisex bathrooms - which would prevent anyone from being uncomfortable about which bathroom they are using. I agree that allowing someone of a sex male but gender female to use the female bathroom, especially at a school, would not be the appropriate solution. I am all for gay rights that don’t infringe on anyone else’s life.
 
I think it’s very established politically, and I don’t see the tide changing anytime soon, so I voted “Yes, It’s over.” However, God can do all things, so I haven’t given up hope.
 
kristie_m said:
Yes, in theory that’s how it’s supposed to work…but if I can’t trust the politicians on such a no brainer, how am I to believe that they know what’s best for me?

Here’s another example…a certain governor gave a thumbs up to transgender students being able to use the facilities of their chosen gender. What about the rights of MY daughters to not be subject to a biological male sharing their bathroom? (or vice-versa) In it’s haste to make sure that the LBGT community is protected, they are violating the rights of the rest of us.

We’re seeing a lot of tunnel vision when it comes to these issues, and it’s important for the politicians to hear both sides of an issue, without assuming that those who disagree with them are just a bunch of hate mongers.
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Thats why all bathrooms should be private bathrooms
 
(in essence Kristie, I also said what aspawloski4th said. I tend to be long winded haha:) )
 
kristie_m said:
Here’s another example…a certain governor gave a thumbs up to transgender students being able to use the facilities of their chosen gender. What about the rights of MY daughters to not be subject to a biological male sharing their bathroom? (or vice-versa) In it’s haste to make sure that the LBGT community is protected, they are violating the rights of the rest of us.
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Speaking as an intersexed transsexual. You have to do SOMETHING for those children. Do you know what happened when I tried to follow the law of my state and go into the ‘right’ bathroom, legally? A drunken idiot attempted to rape me, and once he found out I was not what he expected, he beat me until I was unconscious. And do you know what the police did? NOTHING. I ‘deserved it’ for being a freak.

What about my rights to not live in fear of being raped, by making me go into a bathroom that I clearly don’t belong in?
 
pathia said:
Speaking as an intersexed transsexual. You have to do SOMETHING for those children. Do you know what happened when I tried to follow the law of my state and go into the ‘right’ bathroom, legally? A drunken idiot attempted to rape me, and once he found out I was not what he expected, he beat me until I was unconscious. And do you know what the police did? NOTHING. I ‘deserved it’ for being a freak.

What about my rights to not live in fear of being raped, by making me go into a bathroom that I clearly don’t belong in?
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I am very sorry for what happened to you. That should never occur no matter who you are or what your particular issue might be. There was a young person not too long ago who was murdered in a similar case. His killers were brought to trial and convicted, as they should have been.

I’m not suggesting that we don’t make accomodations for you, I’m simply saying that if a person is a biological male, but feels and lives as a female, it doesn’t change their anatomy. And I would be very uncomfortable with my daughters being forced to share a bathroom or locker room with somone who did not also share their biology. Why expose them (perhaps literally) to something they shouldn’t see until they are married?

Sorry OP…didn’t mean to stray so far from the topic. Pathia…if you want to continue this discussion, please feel free to PM me.

Blessings!
 
kristie_m said:
I’m not suggesting that we don’t make accomodations for you, I’m simply saying that if a person is a biological male, but feels and lives as a female, it doesn’t change their anatomy. And I would be very uncomfortable with my daughters being forced to share a bathroom or locker room with somone who did not also share their biology. Why expose them (perhaps literally) to something they shouldn’t see until they are married?
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Your daughters likely already are sharing the locker room with someone who doesn’t share their biology. The likelihood of there being a girl or boy that is not strictly XX or XY is something around 1/1500. That is smaller than most schools, so statistically there’s at least one or two there already.

Why do you not know about it? They keep it private, just like I do. None of my coworkers knew what I am and they never ‘accidentally’ saw my anatomy in the women’s room either, because they all have closed stalls. If kids are crawling around underneath the stalls and peeking at each other, that’s another entirely different problem!

Letting them use a neutral bathroom COULD be the best solution of course, but only if not for the other kids. The amount of stigma involved in having to do something different than the rest of the kids is pretty brutal, that was their solution with me for a time, and my very first assault (I’ve been brutalized for my ‘lifestyle’ multiple times) occurred in school over this very fact.
 
pathia, I know a lot of transgender people who use the bathroom of the gender to which they have transitioned. But these are all people who would, as you seem to, “pass” as the gender to which they have transitioned (I know your situation as an intersex person is different, but bear with me). I bet issues like kristie-m’s come into play when someone is in the process of transitioning, when one often appears as “in between the genders,” which is uncomfortable to many people. As a strongly female-identified-but-fairly-butch woman, I know what it’s like to get strange looks going into a public bathroom, and I identify with my biological gender! What should be done with those who are transitioning? You’re right in saying it’s not a problem to have a biological man who has transitioned into being a woman in a woman’s bathroom since most people would have no idea about her anatomy, but it gets trickier in in-between stages, or with gender variant individuals.
 
Annn said:
pathia, I know a lot of transgender people who use the bathroom of the gender to which they have transitioned. But these are all people who would, as you seem to, “pass” as the gender to which they have transitioned (I know your situation as an intersex person is different, but bear with me). I bet issues like kristie-m’s come into play when someone is in the process of transitioning, when one often appears as “in between the genders,” which is uncomfortable to many people. As a strongly female-identified-but-fairly-butch woman, I know what it’s like to get strange looks going into a public bathroom, and I identify with my biological gender! What should be done with those who are transitioning? You’re right in saying it’s not a problem to have a biological man who has transitioned into being a woman in a woman’s bathroom since most people would have no idea about her anatomy, but it gets trickier in in-between stages, or with gender variant individuals.
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I don’t really know, I didn’t force myself into the women’s room at any point. I was never particularly masculine (due to the intersex thing). I just thought it prudent to go to where I would cause the least trouble. As soon as I started getting enough ‘What the heck?’ looks at me in the men’s room, I switched. I didn’t go into the women’s room straight away.

The key issue is that the bathrooms are binary and people are not. Unless society is prepared to install a third bathroom everywhere in the US, I don’t really see an easy solution. You could use the single use handicap rooms I suppose, but that will fall afoul of the ADA legislation. Jesse Helms made sure that transsexualism was not covered by that and non-conforming people could run afoul of the law just as easily that way.
 
I must admit that I am totally ignorant about that which you are discussing. I never really gave it much thought nor have I known people who carry this cross. I sense your frustrations and fears. I can only say that you will be held up in prayer that this cross may be easier to carry. You have burdens that most people never face or are even familiar with or think of. Perseverance in carrying this cross will lead to much reward if you stay close to and keep Jesus in your lives.
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I must admit that I am totally ignorant about that which you are discussing. I never really gave it much thought nor have I known people who carry this cross. I sense your frustrations and fears. I can only say that you will be held up in prayer that this cross may be easier to carry. You have burdens that most people never face or are even familiar with or think of. Perseverance in carrying this cross will lead to much reward if you stay close to and keep Jesus in your lives.
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B
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If it were but that simple. As I’ve told others in the past, I’ve tried many things to sense any sort of presence of God or Jesus. Hours upon hours of prayer, meditation, a week or two of starvation and subjecting myself to extremes of temperatures, drugs illegal and legal, anything at all. Anything to feel any sort of…anything. There is nothing, I feel nothing, no matter what I do, simple or complex, humble or outrageous, there is nothing.

How can I pray/feel/hold something in my heart of which I cannot feel? You cannot grasp the ungraspable, the invisible or the intangible. It may be different for others, but I have yet to find any sort of connection on any sort of level. It has been this way since I was capable of thinking of such a thing.
 
pathia said:
How can I pray/feel/hold something in my heart of which I cannot feel? You cannot grasp the ungraspable, the invisible or the intangible. It may be different for others, but I have yet to find any sort of connection on any sort of level. It has been this way since I was capable of thinking of such a thing.
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Go to a Eucharistic Adoration chapel. Put yourself in the presence of Jesus, come to us in the form of the host. Let your heart speak to him. then be silent. Look at him. think of him. Your emptiness is understood by him as he carried all the sins of mankind to the cross for you and for me. Don’t do this just once. Do it regularly. Know that he loves you and is waiting for you to turn to him and put all your burdens in his care. and wants you to trust him completely. If you sincerely do this, he will not let you down. How long will it take. That I cannot answer. Go to him not less than once a week for at least an hour at a time. It may seem long at first. After time, you will wonder where the time went, and you will start feeling a need to go to him and be in his presence. My prayers will be with you. Don’t hesitate to PM me if you have questions. But trust in him, our Savior and Redeemer.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
Go to a Eucharistic Adoration chapel. Put yourself in the presence of Jesus, come to us in the form of the host. Let your heart speak to him. then be silent. Look at him. think of him. Your emptiness is understood by him as he carried all the sins of mankind to the cross for you and for me. Don’t do this just once. Do it regularly. Know that he loves you and is waiting for you to turn to him and put all your burdens in his care. and wants you to trust him completely. If you sincerely do this, he will not let you down. How long will it take. That I cannot answer. Go to him not less than once a week for at least an hour at a time. It may seem long at first. After time, you will wonder where the time went, and you will start feeling a need to go to him and be in his presence. My prayers will be with you. Don’t hesitate to PM me if you have questions. But trust in him, our Savior and Redeemer.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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I am recovering from a several week long hospitalization, I cannot leave the house and I am disabled for the meantime. I am not on good terms with the parish in my area, but once I am moved, I will give it a shot.
 
pathia said:
I am recovering from a several week long hospitalization, I cannot leave the house and I am disabled for the meantime. I am not on good terms with the parish in my area, but once I am moved, I will give it a shot.
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If there is another parish in your area, go to it. If not, I would certainly not let what people think of Me, stop me from going before my God in the Eucharist. Just something to think about. You will remain in my prayers.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
If there is another parish in your area, go to it. If not, I would certainly not let what people think of Me, stop me from going before my God in the Eucharist. Just something to think about. You will remain in my prayers.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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It’s a little more involved than ‘what they think of me’ unfortunately.
 
In the short term, it may not be over, but if nothing happens to change the minds of today’s youth, then yes, it will be over. Those under 30 are a lot more accepting of homosexuality because they have grown up being aware of more individual gay folk and have seen that these people are not freaks or icky in any way so the taboos against homosexuality don’t make much sense to them.

Gay folk are only about 3% (give or take) of the population, but each one probably impacts quite a number of straight folk to be more sympathetic in their struggles. I am straight, but I support gay marriage and civil unions for gay folk as a fundamental issue of fairness. I have probably been impacted by the gay people I have met and the gay family members that I have.
 
If they’re not Catholic, they’re not bound by the laws of the Church. I honestly don’t care if it’s made legal. Seriously, if the State wants to protect the sanctity of marriage, there would be no divorce and marriage would have very strict regulations on it, probably with mandatory counseling.

It’s not the government’s job to make laws regarding marriage, sex, or family life, unless there’s harm to another person involved. As for freedom of religion, there are many churches that are accepting of gay marriage, as well as some Jewish synagogues, so a religious argument holds no water.

Honestly, I understand why abortion should be made illegal. It’s a human rights issue; it kills babies. But gay marriage? Seriously? I’d understand if we lived in a Catholic country, but we don’t.

Birth control is wrong but it’s not illegal. Same with fornication, same with divorce, same with missing Mass on a Sunday. It’s the same thing; it’s a mortal sin yet isn’t causing serious physical harm to the person. If gay marriage proved to be a deadly harm physically as spiritually, then it would be made illegal.
 
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