Is the Catholic Church Sexist?

[Michael_Mayo]

Someone else mentioned this in this thread, but here it is again:

“The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world.”

If the proper “role of women” is not one that includes formal leadership and authority in the Church (Magisterium) why should it include local, state and federal government?

 

[Sarcelle]

If the proper “role of women” is not one that includes formal leadership and authority in the Church (Magisterium) why should it include local, state and federal government?

Well there are people called Christian Reconstructionists who think that no women should have authority over a man. They should be prevented from running for political office, become police officers, judges or own businesses. They also should have their right to vote rescinded. I do not think the Catholic Church agrees with them. However these Christian Reconstructionists also think the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

 

[Sarcelle]

I don’t think the Church is sexist-in the sense that the Church does not oppress women on purpose. (They provided education for females at a time when it’s odd to do so)

But I also don’t think the Church is pro woman. (You can bring up Mary, but obviously he would choose a woman to GIVE BIRTH) The Church seems rather neutral about gender equality. It says that we are equal and then that’s it. The priest thing has its own reason. The pope could want women to be priests, but he cannot do anything about it. That’s not the Church’s problem! God says so

I always felt like God loves us all, but prefers men. Sounds ridiculous/contradictory. But like how a mother loves her children equally, but prefers a child more for one reason or the other

Hmmm. I have a different impression. God seems to favor women.

 

[Lea101]

Hmmm. I have a different impression. God seems to favor women.

That’s an interesting opinion (honestly). Why do you think so?

As you can tell, I’m a very stubborn pessimist. I remember questioning everything about God when I was young. I learnt about the way cultures in biblical times treated women, how women were/are expected to behave etc. So I’m very sceptical about women and religion (to be fair it’s not just Christianity but in islam as well)

 

[Sarcelle]

That’s an interesting opinion (honestly). Why do you think so?

As you can tell, I’m a very stubborn pessimist. I remember questioning everything about God when I was young. I learnt about the way cultures in biblical times treated women, how women were/are expected to behave etc. So I’m very sceptical about women and religion (to be fair it’s not just Christianity but in islam as well)

I am assuming you are quite young. I once shared your point of view when I was younger but now looking back at my life I see how blessed I am. Maybe age gives one a higher point of view and one sees things differently.

I am not talking about how women were treated before and now. If everyone made sure to follow the teachings of Jesus and I mean everyone, I doubt a lot of people including women would be treated awfully. I do not want to blame God for the failures of people and for their failure to choose to do the right thing.

 

[WJeffrey]

The problem women face is the belief that:

1: “Women’s Work” is inferior to men’s work.
2: Femininity is inferior to masculinity.
3: Men are superior to women.
4: That killing is superior to giving birth.
5: Counting beans is superior to caring for people.

Men used to believe this and now women do too.

Don’t lump all men together. There are a lot of people like me who are politically conservative, orthodox religiously and appreciative and respectful about the contributions and value of women. My Mother and Grandmother would not have raised me any other way. Most of the men I know have a pretty similar outlook.

I think you will find that more often than not that women are the ones putting limits on their fellow women.

Men by and large know that women can do anything that men can do, and a lot of things that they can’t do.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

The problem women face is the belief that:

1: “Women’s Work” is inferior to men’s work.
2: Femininity is inferior to masculinity.
3: Men are superior to women.
4: That killing is superior to giving birth.
5: Counting beans is superior to caring for people.

Men used to believe this and now women do too.

I don’t think anyone really believes this.

 

[HelenRose]

I don’t think anyone really believes this.

Boy do I wish you were right!

I am glad you don’t believe that way.

 

[HelenRose]

Don’t lump all men together. There are a lot of people like me who are politically conservative, orthodox religiously and appreciative and respectful about the contributions and value of women. My Mother and Grandmother would not have raised me any other way. Most of the men I know have a pretty similar outlook.

I think you will find that more often than not that women are the ones putting limits on their fellow women.

Men by and large know that women can do anything that men can do, and a lot of things that they can’t do.

I did not intend to lump every one together. I am sorry that I came across like that.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

I don’t believe that the Catholic Church is sexist.

As for Mary, yes, she is best known for being the Mother of God. She is also known for never saying no to God and having a sinless life. She is the first disciple and the highest discipleship one can strive for. I have great respect and admiration for The Blessed Mother. I strive to emulate her (never saying no to God), but fall short all the time. Sigh.

 

[HelenRose]

I don’t believe that the Catholic Church is sexist.

As for Mary, yes, she is best known for being the Mother of God. She is also known for never saying no to God and having a sinless life. She is the first disciple and the highest discipleship one can strive for. I have great respect and admiration for The Blessed Mother. I strive to emulate her (never saying no to God), but fall short all the time. Sigh.

The Church is feminine Herself. I think about how Mary began the journey for women with Her “YES” to God. For 2,000 years this “YES” has given women an way to develop their talents and skills - at first of course - as Nuns and Sisters.

Nuns prayed while Sisters opened hospitals and schools. Nuns prayed while Sisters taught girls to read and write and develop their skills. Nuns and Sisters working together brought light to the world. The journey for women has been steadily been improving because of the respect and love men have had for Mary and the respect that Nuns and Sisters have earned within this world.

What would the world have been like if we did not have courageous women like “The Little Sisters of the Poor” to face a world for us?

We can not possibly know where women would have been if it had not been for the Church and for Mary.

I wish I could express my gratitude to Mary and to the Church for the freedom and joy I have found as a woman within the Church.

I believe that even now She is not only protecting women She is also protecting men.

 

[Lea101]

I am assuming you are quite young. I once shared your point of view when I was younger but now looking back at my life I see how blessed I am. Maybe age gives one a higher point of view and one sees things differently.

Why do you think God favors women?

 

[Lea101]

Nuns prayed while Sisters opened hospitals and schools. Nuns prayed while Sisters taught girls to read and write and develop their skills. Nuns and Sisters working together brought light to the world. The journey for women has been steadily been improving because of the respect and love men have had for Mary and the respect that Nuns and Sisters have earned within this world.

What would the world have been like if we did not have courageous women like “The Little Sisters of the Poor” to face a world for us?

We can not possibly know where women would have been if it had not been for the Church and for Mary.

I wish I could express my gratitude to Mary and to the Church for the freedom and joy I have found as a woman within the Church.

I believe that even now She is not only protecting women She is also protecting men.

you see, i think that’s the problem with people like me and OP? I think feminism has achieved more than the church (yes, i know everyone here hates feminism, but we must admit they have also achieved good things as well as bad things). I never found the church to be quite vocal about gender equality as compared to other issues. Maybe that’s why non Catholics/some catholics think the Church is sexist?

Most catholic men I know respect Mary and maybe nuns, but when it comes to normal women…well…it’s different. It’s all about keeping women in their homes to be a housewife/ sahm or something like that (nothing wrong with that if you WANT to be one) And then we have women hating other women for no good reason. Ugh.

 

[Lea101]

I don’t think anyone really believes this.

Sadly people still do. Not as much as today, but there’s still some internalized misogyny going on. It can be a girl/boy telling another person that she/he “throws like a girl”, or when people encourage a man to be a doctor instead of a nurse, when some girls make fun of other girls who are soo “girly” (usually children/teenagers though), when a guy gets made fun of because he is emotional etc

A lot of people subconsciously believe that femininity is “weak”

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Sadly people still do. Not as much as today, but there’s still some internalized misogyny going on. It can be a girl/boy telling another person that she/he “throws like a girl”, or when people encourage a man to be a doctor instead of a nurse, when some girls make fun of other girls who are soo “girly” (usually children/teenagers though), when a guy gets made fun of because he is emotional etc

A lot of people subconsciously believe that femininity is “weak”

This is my point. As a Church we have for centuries internalized misogyny.
St Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, St Augustine, Even St Thomas Aquinas … we have inherited it.

 

[HelenRose]

you see, i think that’s the problem with people like me and OP? I think feminism has achieved more than the church (yes, i know everyone here hates feminism, but we must admit they have also achieved good things as well as bad things). I never found the church to be quite vocal about gender equality as compared to other issues. Maybe that’s why non Catholics/some catholics think the Church is sexist?

Most catholic men I know respect Mary and maybe nuns, but when it comes to normal women…well…it’s different. It’s all about keeping women in their homes to be a housewife/ sahm or something like that (nothing wrong with that if you WANT to be one) And then we have women hating other women for no good reason. Ugh.

Is it a situation that women are forced to stay at home and care for their families or is it an unpopular choice that many women courageously decide to do?

(I am not talking about women who are forced to work because they have no other option)

P.S. I don’t see the Catholic men in my Church behaving the way you describe. But, then again I live in a rural part of Colorado where many women ride horses, feed the cows and drive tractors.

 

[HelenRose]

Of course we all make our judgements about these issues by our own experiences.

Personally my experience with the Catholic Church and with Catholic men has been one of respect.

My short lived foray into the business world was far different. I found the enlightened business men condescending in a way that I have never been treated by in the hard working class men that are my culture and life.

I have found that the hard working women - in and out of the home - are not the ones who are whining about men and discrimination. For one thing we see how very hard our men work and very hard it is for them to be insulted and denigrated by a very hateful group of women who are bent on destroying everything they, with the help of their women, have worked for.

 

[Stephen_says]

you see, i think that’s the problem with people like me and OP? I think feminism has achieved more than the church (yes, i know everyone here hates feminism, but we must admit they have also achieved good things as well as bad things). I never found the church to be quite vocal about gender equality as compared to other issues. Maybe that’s why non Catholics/some catholics think the Church is sexist?

Most catholic men I know respect Mary and maybe nuns, but when it comes to normal women…well…it’s different. It’s all about keeping women in their homes to be a housewife/ sahm or something like that (nothing wrong with that if you WANT to be one) And then we have women hating other women for no good reason. Ugh.

Is it the church’s duty to be vocal about gender equality? Or is it the church’s duty to protect the faith and the commandments and provide the laity with the sacraments, and let the “secular” culture advance itself? Just a question

 

[Lea101]

Is it a situation that women are forced to stay at home and care for their families or is it an unpopular choice that many women courageously decide to do?

(I am not talking about women who are forced to work because they have no other option)

P.S. I don’t see the Catholic men in my Church behaving the way you describe. But, then again I live in a rural part of Colorado where many women ride horses, feed the cows and drive tractors.

It’s an unpopular choice in the secular world, but there is a stigma in the catholic and protestant community that SAHMs are better moms than working mothers. I wouldn’t say forced (depends on the husband), because the Church is ok with women working, but people in the community act like women who want to work because they are passionate about their jobs are brainwashed by the evils of feminism or something ridiculous like that. A women can nurture her kids and kick butt in the office.

I live in Singapore, quite a modern city. I would say the men here have a lot of internalized misogyny, not as bad in certain countries though. The Catholic men who are very lukewarm in the faith seem more respectful of women while the men who are extremely religious are um…lets just say that they think they are entitled to have an opinion on what women wear/do/think. It’s extremely odd, I know. It should be the opposite!

 

[HelenRose]

It’s an unpopular choice in the secular world, but there is a stigma in the catholic and protestant community that SAHMs are better moms than working mothers. I wouldn’t say forced (depends on the husband), because the Church is ok with women working, but people in the community act like women who want to work because they are passionate about their jobs are brainwashed by the evils of feminism or something ridiculous like that. A women can nurture her kids and kick butt in the office.

I live in Singapore, quite a modern city. I would say the men here have a lot of internalized misogyny, not as bad in certain countries though. The Catholic men who are very lukewarm in the faith seem more respectful of women while the men who are extremely religious are um…lets just say that they think they are entitled to have an opinion on what women wear/do/think. It’s extremely odd, I know. It should be the opposite!

It is a matter experience. I doubt if these women were forced to marry these men. They may very well share the same convictions.

The women I know in Western Colorado, whether they are Catholic, Mennonite or Mormon who dress and live as they believe the faith teaches, are not by any means forced. They consider themselves strong advocates of their religion’s teachings and beliefs.

I do not dress as these women (my clothes are mostly blue jeans except when I go to Church then is dress slacks) but I respect and admire their faith and their message. I do share a protective attitude toward my husband and the men I know who are depicted in the media as ignorant country “good ole’ boys”.

I am becoming more and more protective of my Catholic Faith which I hold so very dear to my heart. I guess it is just the maternal nature of who I am.