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HelenRose
Guest
Advance itself? Advance where? Bathrooms where women and girls are going to be forced to deal with naked men? Stripping men and women of the reality of Biology 101? Insanity?
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MarkInOregon
Guest
With regards to the positions of the priest, bishop, pope and the magisterium – it seems you are viewing them as positions of power. They are really positions of service and sacrifice. The priests serve us, they give their lives for us. They are not our Lords and Masters. They are not our bosses–they are our servants. Priests continue the ministry of Christ here on earth. They offer the Mass for us, they baptize us, they hear our confessions, they give us the Eucharist, they officiate at our weddings, they come out at the hour of our death to give us last rites, hear our confession and give us the Eucharist for that final journey. Their lives are not their own–they give them to us.
To view the priesthood as some kind of secular job, as some source of power over others much like a boss at work–is to not understand the priesthood and to think of it as something that it is not. The priesthood is a calling from God–it is not a “right” – most men cannot be priests either because they have not been called–they don’t have a right to be a priest in the same way one has the right to be an accountant or a doctor if they get the right education and pass the right tests.
The peace of Christ,
Mark
To view the priesthood as some kind of secular job, as some source of power over others much like a boss at work–is to not understand the priesthood and to think of it as something that it is not. The priesthood is a calling from God–it is not a “right” – most men cannot be priests either because they have not been called–they don’t have a right to be a priest in the same way one has the right to be an accountant or a doctor if they get the right education and pass the right tests.
The peace of Christ,
Mark
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HelenRose
Guest
Thank you for this. I love our Priests and I am searching for the right the words to stand behind them and explain what I have received, as a woman, from the Church as a whole.With regards to the positions of the priest, bishop, pope and the magisterium – it seems you are viewing them as positions of power. They are really positions of service and sacrifice. The priests serve us, they give their lives for us. They are not our Lords and Masters. They are not our bosses–they are our servants. Priests continue the ministry of Christ here on earth. They offer the Mass for us, they baptize us, they hear our confessions, they give us the Eucharist, they officiate at our weddings, they come out at the hour of our death to give us last rites, hear our confession and give us the Eucharist for that final journey. Their lives are not their own–they give them to us.
To view the priesthood as some kind of secular job, as some source of power over others much like a boss at work–is to not understand the priesthood and to think of it as something that it is not. The priesthood is a calling from God–it is not a “right” – most men cannot be priests either because they have not been called–they don’t have a right to be a priest in the same way one has the right to be an accountant or a doctor if they get the right education and pass the right tests.
The peace of Christ,
Mark
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
Yes, that is the ideal and where Pope Francis wants it to be. So how do we get terms like “Princes of the Church”. “His Eminence”. “Lord Cardinal” ? They don’t sound like offices of service.With regards to the positions of the priest, bishop, pope and the magisterium – it seems you are viewing them as positions of power. They are really positions of service and sacrifice. The priests serve us, they give their lives for us. They are not our Lords and Masters. They are not our bosses–they are our servants. Priests continue the ministry of Christ here on earth. They offer the Mass for us, they baptize us, they hear our confessions, they give us the Eucharist, they officiate at our weddings, they come out at the hour of our death to give us last rites, hear our confession and give us the Eucharist for that final journey. Their lives are not their own–they give them to us.
To view the priesthood as some kind of secular job, as some source of power over others much like a boss at work–is to not understand the priesthood and to think of it as something that it is not. The priesthood is a calling from God–it is not a “right” – most men cannot be priests either because they have not been called–they don’t have a right to be a priest in the same way one has the right to be an accountant or a doctor if they get the right education and pass the right tests.
The peace of Christ,
Mark
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Sarcelle
Guest
Jesus himself who was called the Prince of Peace said He was here to serve and not to be served. Same thing goes for the Princes of the Church. Greatness lies in serving others which is quite in opposition to how secular society defines it.Yes, that is the ideal and where Pope Francis wants it to be. So how do we get terms like “Princes of the Church”. “His Eminence”. “Lord Cardinal” ? They don’t sound like offices of service.
You also see an echo of this in Western society where elected officials are named public servants.
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WJeffrey
Guest
To add to Sarcelle’s point about titles, during the past few months, I have witnessed men in the Church from the Pope, down to my Parish Priest washing the feet of women.
Does that behavior strike you as being sexist? I am sure that it does, because you haven’t listened to a single contrary point of view during this entire discussion
Does that behavior strike you as being sexist? I am sure that it does, because you haven’t listened to a single contrary point of view during this entire discussion
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
Oh I have listened but have not been impressed.To add to Sarcelle’s point about titles, during the past few months, I have witnessed men in the Church from the Pope, down to my Parish Priest washing the feet of women.
Does that behavior strike you as being sexist? I am sure that it does, because you haven’t listened to a single contrary point of view during this entire discussion
Some interesting reactions:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1003620&highlight=womens+feet
"Should be men , the end,the apostles were men,what’s next,I’m headed the Traditional route route,we can hug the Muslims ,I saw a Bishop ask a supposedFemale Methodist for Blessing which she did crossing his forehead,I could go on,a couple dancing in the Santuary after Holy Mass with Arch Bishop Borgoglo looking on from the Cathedra,Google a few things we owe it to ourselves, "
“Yes, the Twelve Apostles were men, it should be men. I think that is what Cardinal Sarah mean”
"Shouldn’t be done. It seems immodest to have a man wash the feet of another man’s wife, or even a single woman. It’s more immodest when you consider his head and eyes will be at thigh/skirt level when he does this.
Hopefully they don’t wear skirts!
This is doubly worse to have a celibate do so, as it could be a near occasion of sin for him.
Hopefully priests will ignore this innovation by the Pope and stick with the wisdom of the Church tradition (small t). "
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
“In several passages in the Summa Theologiae and elsewhere, Thomas Aquinas asserts that the inferiority of women lies not just in bodily strength but in force of intellect.”
But what did he actually say and mean?
firstthings.com/article/1999/12/what-aquinas-really-said-about-women
But what did he actually say and mean?
firstthings.com/article/1999/12/what-aquinas-really-said-about-women
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kdbueno
Guest
The Catholic church pre-supposition is that its orthodoxy is universal
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prayersroses
Guest
You bet the church is sexist. It is not true that the church has no authority to make women priests. We are educated now we don’t believe this nonsense. We have access to great scholars of the bible. We know better. This is so silly. I heard the Pope talk about how men are much better leaders than woman and then we see that clown Trump… and laugh. We belong as priests and popes. God loves us the same as he loves men. To have moral authority you need to speak the truth.You need to listen to half of the church that has been silenced and made subserviant and robbed of their rightful place. You need to turn in priest that rape children. not coddle them and play shell games. its all a joke… and we aren’t laughing … people’s souls are on the line here. The church is turned into a laughing stock. Wake up.
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prayersroses
Guest
Christ chose Mary Magdalene as Apostle to the Apostles. There is nothing preventing women from being ordained other than male prejudice.
Christ could have chosen a male apostle to tell that he was risen: but he didn’t he chose Mary Magdalene.What a profound amazing thing he did. I wonder if this is all a test of male vanity. All these centuries of men and their prejudice and vanity and pride not wanting to share priesthood with mere women.
Christ could have chosen a male apostle to tell that he was risen: but he didn’t he chose Mary Magdalene.What a profound amazing thing he did. I wonder if this is all a test of male vanity. All these centuries of men and their prejudice and vanity and pride not wanting to share priesthood with mere women.
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sudy
Guest
The Church cannot be sexist. Not having women priests is because the Church has no authority to ordain women as priests. All of our teachings come from Christ and his apostles.
Galatians 3:26-29
26 for all of you are the children of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus,
27 since every one of you that has been baptised has been clothed in Christ.
28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female – for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And simply by being Christ’s, you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.
The Church wholly endorses what St Paul says here.
Within my own parish, women do most of the roles …and every single role is important and useful. HelenRose’s post #5 says it best. I disagree with your aggressive views, prayersroses. These attacks from inside the Church may very well lead us to be a laughing stock. You’ve accused the Magisterium of being mocking, and full of pride, and vain, and prejudiced. We are called to be obedient.
There’s no mention of Mary of Magdala at the Last Supper.
Galatians 3:26-29
26 for all of you are the children of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus,
27 since every one of you that has been baptised has been clothed in Christ.
28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female – for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And simply by being Christ’s, you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.
The Church wholly endorses what St Paul says here.
Within my own parish, women do most of the roles …and every single role is important and useful. HelenRose’s post #5 says it best. I disagree with your aggressive views, prayersroses. These attacks from inside the Church may very well lead us to be a laughing stock. You’ve accused the Magisterium of being mocking, and full of pride, and vain, and prejudiced. We are called to be obedient.
There’s no mention of Mary of Magdala at the Last Supper.
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Dorothy
Guest
Excellent post!The Church cannot be sexist. Not having women priests is because the Church has no authority to ordain women as priests. All of our teachings come from Christ and his apostles.
Galatians 3:26-29
26 for all of you are the children of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus,
27 since every one of you that has been baptised has been clothed in Christ.
28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female – for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And simply by being Christ’s, you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.
The Church wholly endorses what St Paul says here.
Within my own parish, women do most of the roles …and every single role is important and useful. HelenRose’s post #5 says it best. I disagree with your aggressive views, prayersroses. These attacks from inside the Church may very well lead us to be a laughing stock. You’ve accused the Magisterium of being mocking, and full of pride, and vain, and prejudiced. We are called to be obedient.
There’s no mention of Mary of Magdala at the Last Supper.
The Body of Christ, the Church, cannot grow in sanctity with bitterness and complaining in many hearts.
Obedience is greater than sacrifice.
Look what rebellion did to some of the holy angels!
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prayersroses
Guest
It not an aggressive view. Its the Truth. Spoken quietly and calmly and with and trust in God. The Truth has been hiding all these centuries in plain sight. He told Mary Magdalene He was risen to go and tell the Apostles. That is the Truth. Deny that. Christ himself chose a woman to be Apostle to the Apostles. And yet cultural prejudice is so rampant even in this century in the Catholic church and men are so blinded by their egos they cannot see it. If there is no mention of women at the last supper and that is justification for us not to have an equal share in Christ then why are we allowed the Eucharist? He said love one another. This is not love denying women that the were chosen by Christ to be Apostles. This is repression of the Truth and the Truth is not going away.
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prayersroses
Guest
Mary Magdalene was told to tell the news of Christ being Risen. And we want to be obedient but you are preventing us.
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estesbob
Guest
So God withheld the Truth from his Church for 2,000 years?It not an aggressive view. Its the Truth. Spoken quietly and calmly and with and trust in God. The Truth has been hiding all these centuries in plain sight. He told Mary Magdalene He was risen to go and tell the Apostles. That is the Truth. Deny that. Christ himself chose a woman to be Apostle to the Apostles. And yet cultural prejudice is so rampant even in this century in the Catholic church and men are so blinded by their egos they cannot see it. If there is no mention of women at the last supper and that is justification for us not to have an equal share in Christ then why are we allowed the Eucharist? He said love one another. This is not love denying women that the were chosen by Christ to be Apostles. This is repression of the Truth and the Truth is not going away.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
Not at all. The truth has always been evident but we have resisted based on our cultural bias.So God withheld the Truth from his Church for 2,000 years?
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estesbob
Guest
So God allowed his Church to be in error for 2,000 years!!! Are there any other doctrines of the Church that God has misled us on and how do we determine which are “true” and which are due to “cultural bias”Not at all. The truth has always been evident but we have resisted based on our cultural bias.
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sudy
Guest
The thing is though, by this calculation we should all be ordained, including the Pharisees who were told to take a message to Herod, and John’s disciples who were given a message for John, and we who are messengers with the good news.Mary Magdalene was told to tell the news of Christ being Risen. And we want to be obedient but you are preventing us.
It’s very easy for each of us to lose sight of what’s really important. If we feel victimized or downtrodden in some way, we can often find that we lack humility and obedience. I’m not trying to anger or hurt you, these verses are given in the hope that we may all rethink any negative thoughts that we may presently have regarding this issue. We can all be obedient without performing the Mass.
Anyone who wants to become great among you must be your servant, and anyone who wants to be first among you must be slave to all. For the Son of man himself came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
Humility and the fear of the Lord bring wealth and honour and life.
Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account.
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourself.
The simple fact is that the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church. You know this. If this was an omission or the Church withholding a teaching, don’t you think it would have come to light by now?Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.
The problem here is that you’re speaking of ‘truth’ by your own interpretation and against the Church when you have not been given any authority to do so by Christ. You’re stating that the Magisterium is not only telling us false information but also that it is puffed up with pride/prejudice/vanity etc. in order to keep women down and in ‘their place’. This is in direct contrast to what St. Pope John Paul II told us. He has already made it clear that the Church has no authority to make any changes to promote women for priestly ordination. And let’s face it… the rest of us Catholics don’t see the Scriptures to mean the same thing that you apparently do with regards to those ordained to perform the Mass.
You already accept that God loves us women as much as he loves men, so why are you doubting his Church? The Galatians verse explains that we’re on an equal footing.
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MarkInOregon
Guest
That fact that you cannot become a priest is not preventing you from sharing the good news of Christ’s resurrection.Mary Magdalene was told to tell the news of Christ being Risen. And we want to be obedient but you are preventing us.
The peace of Christ,
Mark
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