L
Lion
Guest
Sorry, I only skimmed your post!!! Are you okay with Christmas trees or not? No offence intended, I’m just tired, but interested in your comments
- Status
F
fatherx
Guest
I see a lot of people looking for a ‘loophole’. The Lord says do not learn the custom…** man** says, “No Lord, it’s OK because…”Sorry, I only skimmed your post!!! Are you okay with Christmas trees or not? No offence intended, I’m just tired, but interested in your comments
It would be wiser to set up a manger scene on a small table and put your gifts under it.
L
LilyM
Guest
Oy vey! Verse 5 of the Jeremiah passage, in your own analysis, very clearly reveals that the custom which is abhorrent to God, that we are not to learn or imitate, is that of WORSHIPPING THE DECORATED TREE AS A GOD - that’s why it is made clear that it is a false GOD.
And that’s why verse 5 makes clear that the tree cannot move, speak etc. What normal tree CAN do any of these things? Clearly it was thought by those cutting and decorating it that the tree was a GOD and thus that it COULD move and speak etc, since the gods of trees can do so whereas normal trees cannot.
This passage is NOT talking about the mere cutting down and decoration of said trees! :banghead:
E
Eden
Guest
fatherx - I noticed that you object to Christmas trees but not to getting presents since you suggest putting the presents by the manger scene instead. That’s rather convenient, isn’t it? I mean really, what do presents have to do with Christmas either? If you find Christmas decorations that are not religious in nature offensive and troubling, why do you find it appropriate to get gifts on the day we celebrate Jesus’ birthday? :ehh: It’s funny to see the objections to the day as being pagan in origin or the decorations and rituals as pagan but no objector is willing to give up getting gifts. 
T
tabcom
Guest
**I haven’t exchanged gifts since I stopped doing the Christ Mass in 2000. My mother insist on giving me money. She says its for my birthday, which is on New Years Day. I reluctantly accept her offer. Afterwards, I secretly use it as a tithe.It’s funny to see the objections to the day as being pagan in origin or the decorations and rituals as pagan but no objector is willing to give up getting gifts.
**
T
tabcom
Guest
**
Now that this thread has hit 400 posts and over 4200 views, I wanted to reprint post #1:
Is not the christmas tree the same tree that Jeremiah warns the Israelites NOT to get involved with?
Did not Ahab bring tree worship into Northern Israel?
Quote:
Jeremiah Chapter 10:
1
Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.
2
Thus says the LORD: Learn not the customs of the nations, and have no fear of the signs of the heavens, though the nations fear them.
3
For the cult idols of the nations are nothing, wood cut from the forest, Wrought by craftsmen with the axe,
4
adorned with silver and gold. With nails and hammers they are fastened, that they may not totter.
5
Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field are they, they cannot speak; They must be carried about, for they cannot walk. Fear them not, they can do no harm, neither is it in their power to do good.
6
No one is like you, O LORD, great are you, great and mighty is your name.
7
Who would not fear you, King of the nations, for it is your due! Among all the wisest of the nations, and in all their domain, there is none like you.
8
One and all they are dumb and senseless, these idols they teach about are wooden:
9
Silver strips brought from Tarshish, and gold from Ophir, The work of the craftsman and the handiwork of the smelter, Clothed with violet and purple- all of them the work of artisans.
11
Thus shall you say of them: Let the gods that did not make heaven and earth perish from the earth, and from beneath these heavens!
10
The LORD is true God,
1 Kings Chapter 16
30
Ahab, son of Omri, did evil in the sight of the LORD more than any of his predecessors.
31
It was not enough for him to imitate the sins of Jeroboam, son of Nebat. He even married Jezebel, daughter of Ethbaal, king of the Sidonians, and went over to the veneration and worship of Baal.
32
Ahab erected an altar to Baal in the temple of Baal which he built in Samaria,
33
and also made a sacred pole. He did more to anger the LORD, the God of Israel, than any of the kings of Israel before him.
Source:
New American Bible
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
November 11, 2002 Copyright © by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops**
Now that this thread has hit 400 posts and over 4200 views, I wanted to reprint post #1:
Is not the christmas tree the same tree that Jeremiah warns the Israelites NOT to get involved with?
Did not Ahab bring tree worship into Northern Israel?
Quote:
Jeremiah Chapter 10:
1
Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.
2
Thus says the LORD: Learn not the customs of the nations, and have no fear of the signs of the heavens, though the nations fear them.
3
For the cult idols of the nations are nothing, wood cut from the forest, Wrought by craftsmen with the axe,
4
adorned with silver and gold. With nails and hammers they are fastened, that they may not totter.
5
Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field are they, they cannot speak; They must be carried about, for they cannot walk. Fear them not, they can do no harm, neither is it in their power to do good.
6
No one is like you, O LORD, great are you, great and mighty is your name.
7
Who would not fear you, King of the nations, for it is your due! Among all the wisest of the nations, and in all their domain, there is none like you.
8
One and all they are dumb and senseless, these idols they teach about are wooden:
9
Silver strips brought from Tarshish, and gold from Ophir, The work of the craftsman and the handiwork of the smelter, Clothed with violet and purple- all of them the work of artisans.
11
Thus shall you say of them: Let the gods that did not make heaven and earth perish from the earth, and from beneath these heavens!
10
The LORD is true God,
1 Kings Chapter 16
30
Ahab, son of Omri, did evil in the sight of the LORD more than any of his predecessors.
31
It was not enough for him to imitate the sins of Jeroboam, son of Nebat. He even married Jezebel, daughter of Ethbaal, king of the Sidonians, and went over to the veneration and worship of Baal.
32
Ahab erected an altar to Baal in the temple of Baal which he built in Samaria,
33
and also made a sacred pole. He did more to anger the LORD, the God of Israel, than any of the kings of Israel before him.
Source:
New American Bible
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
November 11, 2002 Copyright © by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops**
T
tabcom
Guest
**One more time, I believe the tree metaphorically represents the tree in the garden.No one worships their Christmas tree.
When one bows down to accept a gift from the tree, they are doing three things: they want that present with their name on it (lust of the eye). After opening the gift and seeing that they received what they wished for (lust of the flesh), it makes them feel good (pride of life).
1 John 2:15-17
15
Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16
For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and pride life, is not from the Father but is from the world.
17
Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.**
**Thank you for suggesting Hannukah.
The origin of Hannukah came about because Jewish Leaders at that time, who understood the metaphorical representation of the tree from Jer. 10, wanted to kick out the tree worship from the temple that Jezebel and Ahab brought in!
**
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Say **what?/**COLOR]
The miracle of Hanukkah is that the oil for the temple lamp, which should have only been sufficient to burn for one day, burned instead for the eight days of purification needed.
It is also known as the Festival of Lights, Feast of Dedication, and Feast of the Maccabees, Hanukkah commemorates the rededication of the Temple of Jerusalem by Judas Maccabee in 165 BC after the Temple had been profaned by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, king of Syria and overlord of Palestine.
Not Ahab and Jezebel, nor yet “tree worship.”
Historically, Hanukkah commemorates two events:
The triumph of Judaism’s spiritual values as embodied in its Torah (symbolized by the Menorah, since the Torah is compared to light) over Hellenistic civilization (considered darkness) which under Antiochus IV, had attempted to culturally assimilate the Jews away from practicing Judaism’s commandments, by forcibly installing Greek religious symbols in the Second Temple.
The victory of the Jews over the armies of Antiochus IV. The rebellion was begun by Mattathias Maccabee and continued by Judah Maccabee and his other sons. They defeated overwhelming forces, and re-dedicated the Second Temple.
Now did the Greeks worship trees with silver and gold, and were those trees put into the temple? No.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
:banghead: :banghead:
You see, this is what happens when people get a ‘pet theory’. They scurry frantically, cherrypicking verses to suit, ignoring history and context, and finally trying to ‘segue’ events into a ‘post hoc, ergo propter hoc’ argument.
The funniest part of all this (speaking for me personally) is that I don’t have a tree, and haven’t had for years. Not because I think it’s evil, not because it’s not a part of my heritage or customs. . . I simply don’t have the money for a new tree (real or artificial); the old one having been victim of 'old age and some water damage from an attic leak a few years ago, coinciding with my own illness, financial issues, and a forced move.
So instead I put up the nativity scene I knit when the kids were small, we hang up the Christmas cards and the old ornaments on the walls or around the doors, set the Advent candles and calendar and the holiday afghan out. . .
Someday when things are less tight I’ll have a tree again. For now, I can enjoy looking at others when I am out walking.
You see, this is what happens when people get a ‘pet theory’. They scurry frantically, cherrypicking verses to suit, ignoring history and context, and finally trying to ‘segue’ events into a ‘post hoc, ergo propter hoc’ argument.
The funniest part of all this (speaking for me personally) is that I don’t have a tree, and haven’t had for years. Not because I think it’s evil, not because it’s not a part of my heritage or customs. . . I simply don’t have the money for a new tree (real or artificial); the old one having been victim of 'old age and some water damage from an attic leak a few years ago, coinciding with my own illness, financial issues, and a forced move.
So instead I put up the nativity scene I knit when the kids were small, we hang up the Christmas cards and the old ornaments on the walls or around the doors, set the Advent candles and calendar and the holiday afghan out. . .
Someday when things are less tight I’ll have a tree again. For now, I can enjoy looking at others when I am out walking.
F
fatherx
Guest
Looking for a loophole, I see. It’s this simple. A heathen tradition is described here, where a tree from the forest is decorated at the time of winter solstice. The Lord says don’t practice this custom. I will obey the Lord, will you?
F
fatherx
Guest
The Lord’s instruction is to not practice the heathen tradition of decorating the tree from the forest at the time of winter solstice. (pretty clear) I don’t object to the winter solstice tree itself, I just choose to obey God.fatherx - I noticed that you object to Christmas trees but not to getting presents since you suggest putting the presents by the manger scene instead. That’s rather convenient, isn’t it? I mean really, what do presents have to do with Christmas either? If you find Christmas decorations that are not religious in nature offensive and troubling, why do you find it appropriate to get gifts on the day we celebrate Jesus’ birthday? :ehh: It’s funny to see the objections to the day as being pagan in origin or the decorations and rituals as pagan but no objector is willing to give up getting gifts.
Please provide the book, chapter and verse where God instucts us not to give gifts, I’d be happy to look at it.
L
Lukelion
Guest
The tree gives you gifts now? Funny, the tag usually says a relative. You are claiming to know what is in each and every one of our hearts! I personally could care less if I ever got a gift, but I do take great pleasure in my children’s accomplishments when they have made me a gift from their hearts. Is it pride? NO! All good things come from God. That, is the true meaning of Christmas, which you have sadly seem to have lost.
A
adrift
Guest
I have been trying to read the entire thread. Thanks to a child being out in a snow storm I got a lot read. You cannot tell how many are unique post. I tried your method. I used a post that I never looked at before. It didn’t register me at all. I don’t know how it registers viewing but your method is flawed.
A
adrift
Guest
Pretty clear? Please provide chapter and verse.
A
adrift
Guest
Wanting more = Covetousness
Covetousness = Idolatry
Wanting more = Idolatry
Covetousness Generally, an unreasonable desire for what we do not possess not wanting more
Covetousness = Idolatry no they are not synonymous. One is the unreasonable desire for what we do not possess the other is Idolatry etymologically denotes Divine worship given to an image, but its signification has been extended to all Divine worship given to anyone or anything but the true God.
Since wanting more does not equate to covetousness and covetousness does not equal idolatry, your conclusion is erroneous.
newadvent.org/
Its not Santa that gives gifts it’s a tree? :bigyikes: The tree does not give the gift and I am not accepting a gift from the tree.
Lust is The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.
The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate. This is the testimony of St. Paul in the Epistle to the Galatians, v. 19:
Adam and Eves sin was not worshiping a tree it was disobedience which is the root of all sin.
E
Eden
Guest
Tabcom: **A****gain, no one worships their Christmas tree. It is a decoration, not a god. And who bows down to accept their gifts from a tree? I have never in my life seen a tree hand a gift to a person, nor have I seen someone bow down to receive it. **
And lust of the eye for a Christmas gift? Lust is a sexual desire. What do you mean by saying people bow down before a Christmas tree that hands them gifts which they look on with sexual desire? This is all very strange and disturbing. What you are describing bears no resemblance to a family on Christmas morning opening presents.
Lust (Latin, luxuria)
Main articles: Lust (fornication, perversion) Lust is best described as depraved thought, unwholesome morality, desire for excitement, or need to be accepted or recognized by others. It also includes obsessive or unlawful sexual desire, such as desiring to engage in excessive sexual appetites. Bestiality, rape, and adultery are considered to be extreme forms of Lust. Dante’s criterion was “excessive love of others,” thereby detracting from the love due to God. However, Lust and love are two different things; while love involves mutual appreciation, trust, deep friendship, and willingness to sacrifice, Lust is little more than extreme sexual arousal. In Purgatorio, the penitent walks within flames to purge himself of lustful thoughts.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_sins
Let’s repeat the definition of lust: "Lust is little more than extreme sexual arousal."
Now let’s look at more quotes:
Pride/Hubris (Latin, superbia)
Main articles: Pride (vanity, narcissism), Hubris In almost every list Pride is considered the original or most serious sin, and the ultimate source of all other sins. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive to others, failing to give credit due to others, or excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante’s definition was “love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one’s neighbour”. In Jacob Bidermann’s medievalmiracle play, Cenodoxus, Pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the famed Doctor of Paris, Cenodoxus. Pride was what sparked the fall of Lucifer from Heaven, and his subsequent transformation into Satan. Vanity and Narcissism are good examples of these sins, though both imply a more empty feeling of Pride, with little to back it up. In the Divine Comedy, the penitent were forced to walk with their heads bowed while they were whipped in order to induce feelings of humility.
And lust of the eye for a Christmas gift? Lust is a sexual desire. What do you mean by saying people bow down before a Christmas tree that hands them gifts which they look on with sexual desire? This is all very strange and disturbing. What you are describing bears no resemblance to a family on Christmas morning opening presents.
Lust (Latin, luxuria)
Main articles: Lust (fornication, perversion) Lust is best described as depraved thought, unwholesome morality, desire for excitement, or need to be accepted or recognized by others. It also includes obsessive or unlawful sexual desire, such as desiring to engage in excessive sexual appetites. Bestiality, rape, and adultery are considered to be extreme forms of Lust. Dante’s criterion was “excessive love of others,” thereby detracting from the love due to God. However, Lust and love are two different things; while love involves mutual appreciation, trust, deep friendship, and willingness to sacrifice, Lust is little more than extreme sexual arousal. In Purgatorio, the penitent walks within flames to purge himself of lustful thoughts.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_sins
Let’s repeat the definition of lust: "Lust is little more than extreme sexual arousal."
Now let’s look at more quotes:
I believe the correct description would be “to take gifts from under the tree”.**"When one bows down to accept **gifts from a tree (?)
Again, your understanding of the Seven Deadly Sins is flawed. There is nothing narcissistic or vain about being grateful for and enjoying gifts given out of love from family and friends (not a tree) in celebration of the Christmas season.
Pride/Hubris (Latin, superbia)
Main articles: Pride (vanity, narcissism), Hubris In almost every list Pride is considered the original or most serious sin, and the ultimate source of all other sins. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive to others, failing to give credit due to others, or excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante’s definition was “love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one’s neighbour”. In Jacob Bidermann’s medievalmiracle play, Cenodoxus, Pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the famed Doctor of Paris, Cenodoxus. Pride was what sparked the fall of Lucifer from Heaven, and his subsequent transformation into Satan. Vanity and Narcissism are good examples of these sins, though both imply a more empty feeling of Pride, with little to back it up. In the Divine Comedy, the penitent were forced to walk with their heads bowed while they were whipped in order to induce feelings of humility.
E
Eden
Guest
This is what happens when we are left to our own interpretations of Scriptures. If the Church has not deemed the Christmas tree to be idolatrous tree worship, then I will rely on the Church to tell me what I can and cannot do to celebrate Christmas.
A full study of the passage in Jeremiah shows that the people would cut down a tree and work it with a chisel to engrave an image in it. They would also carry it from place to place as an object to be feared and worshipped. The only consistencies with Christmas tree customs seem to be that both are made of wood and both are decorated.
E
Eden
Guest
I found this archived article about Pope John Paul the Great and Christmas Trees:
May the Christmas tree teach us to give ourselves, says the Pope
Pontiff lovingly greets 32 children who survived the Beslan school massacre.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Vatican City (AsiaNews) If the crèche symbolises the birth of Christ, the Christmas treewhich never dies in winterreminds us of Christ, ‘the tree of life’, and, through the gifts that are found under it, symbolises the God’s supreme gift to humanity.
After speaking about the crèche before last Sunday’s Angelus, the Pope today spoke about the Christmas tree, it, too, a symbol of celebration but above all of gift-giving.
“The meaning of the Christmas tree message is that life is ‘evergreen’ if we give, not so much material things but ourselves: in friendship and sincere affection, in brotherly help and forgiveness, in mutual sharing and listening to one another.”
The Pope’s loving greetings to a group of children from Beslan symbolised such giving of oneself.
“It is with great affection,” the Pope said, “that I welcome the children from Beslan, who with some relatives are staying with the Discalced Carmelites of Trento.”
“Dearest ones,
May the goodness that you are receiving from so many friends help you overcome the wounds of the terrible experience you had”.
Speaking before 20,000 faithful gathered in St Peter’s Square next to the already decorated big Christmas tree and the yet-to-be-completed crèche, John Paul II, appearing in good conditions, said: “Christmas, perhaps the most cherished popular tradition, is rich in symbols tied to many different cultures. As I said last week, the crèche is certainly the most important among all of them.”
“Next to it, as we see here in St Peter’s Square, there is the traditional ‘Christmas tree’. It is an ancient custom that proclaims the value of life in winterthe evergreen fir becomes the symbol of life that never dies.”
"As tradition dictates, Christmas gifts are placed under the decorated tree. Even in its Christian interpretation, the symbol speaks for itself for it reminds us of the ‘tree of life’ (cf Gn 2:9), of Christ, God’s supreme gift to humanity".
images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.asianews.it/files/img/2144_vaticano%2520natale%2520(150%2520x%2520134).jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.asianews.it/view_p.php%3Fl%3Den%26art%3D2144&h=134&w=150&sz=6&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=sWkyGxCKD1CfqM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPope%2BChristmas%2Btree%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
(Now that’s a long hyperlink.
)
May the Christmas tree teach us to give ourselves, says the Pope
Pontiff lovingly greets 32 children who survived the Beslan school massacre.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Vatican City (AsiaNews) If the crèche symbolises the birth of Christ, the Christmas treewhich never dies in winterreminds us of Christ, ‘the tree of life’, and, through the gifts that are found under it, symbolises the God’s supreme gift to humanity.
After speaking about the crèche before last Sunday’s Angelus, the Pope today spoke about the Christmas tree, it, too, a symbol of celebration but above all of gift-giving.
“The meaning of the Christmas tree message is that life is ‘evergreen’ if we give, not so much material things but ourselves: in friendship and sincere affection, in brotherly help and forgiveness, in mutual sharing and listening to one another.”
The Pope’s loving greetings to a group of children from Beslan symbolised such giving of oneself.
“It is with great affection,” the Pope said, “that I welcome the children from Beslan, who with some relatives are staying with the Discalced Carmelites of Trento.”
“Dearest ones,
May the goodness that you are receiving from so many friends help you overcome the wounds of the terrible experience you had”.
Speaking before 20,000 faithful gathered in St Peter’s Square next to the already decorated big Christmas tree and the yet-to-be-completed crèche, John Paul II, appearing in good conditions, said: “Christmas, perhaps the most cherished popular tradition, is rich in symbols tied to many different cultures. As I said last week, the crèche is certainly the most important among all of them.”
“Next to it, as we see here in St Peter’s Square, there is the traditional ‘Christmas tree’. It is an ancient custom that proclaims the value of life in winterthe evergreen fir becomes the symbol of life that never dies.”
"As tradition dictates, Christmas gifts are placed under the decorated tree. Even in its Christian interpretation, the symbol speaks for itself for it reminds us of the ‘tree of life’ (cf Gn 2:9), of Christ, God’s supreme gift to humanity".
images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.asianews.it/files/img/2144_vaticano%2520natale%2520(150%2520x%2520134).jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.asianews.it/view_p.php%3Fl%3Den%26art%3D2144&h=134&w=150&sz=6&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=sWkyGxCKD1CfqM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPope%2BChristmas%2Btree%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
(Now that’s a long hyperlink.
)
F
fatherx
Guest
Jeremiah 10
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
I wanted to share some findings that I have made concerning Jeremiah chapter 10, the first five verses. One critical thing to remember when studying scripture is, that you must pay attention to paragraph marks! A good study bible will have paragraph marks (looks like the mathematical symbol for pi), this is very important, it will prevent you from injecting scripture from other topics into your specific verses of study. When we look at the first five verses of Jeremiah chapter 10, note that the paragraph ends after verse five. I’ve seen where folks will take a verse from later in the text, and try to use it in the interpretation of these five verses, very dangerous.
- In verse one, we are told to listen, because the Lord is speaking to us. (pay attention! The Lord is telling us something important!)
- In verse two, the Lord gives us a commandment, “learn not…”, don’t practice this heathen custom. In this same sentence is a key clue! The heathen are doing this because of a certain sign in the heavens, winter solstice. The winter solstice festival started on the solstice and ended on New Year’s day, what we now call the twelve days of Christmas.
- In verse three, we begin the description, a custom where a tree is cut from the forest.
- In verse four, they fasten the tree upright so that it will not fall over, and it’s lavishly decorated. (When you watch the TV special “Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer”, look for the part where they decorate the tree, Burl Ives sings “Silver & gold”!)
- In verse five, we are told that it is upright and can not speak and can not walk, its needs must be met (you better water it!) And we are told not to be afraid of it, it is a false god and has no power.
Why these verses are not describing a wooden carving, as some have suggested.
- No wooden carving that I’m aware of is linked with the signs in the heavens (winter solstice).
- The original Hebrew text uses the word “ets” (found in a Hebrew-Chaldee dictionary as #6086), which means “a tree from it’s firmness”. Clearly this is not a post or plank, but a tree from the forest. (roots give a tree it’s firmness, so we know it’s a tree). Some translations use the words “chisel” and “forming”, this is describing tree trimming, once a very popular part of the tree tradition.
- Wooden carvings aren’t typically fastened upright, they usually sit on their own.
- It’s needs must be met, what ‘needs’ does a wooden carving have? You have to add water to the tree.
12 day winter solstice festival: candlegrove.com/solstice.html
Setting the date of Christmas in the middle of a pagan festival: wilstar.com/xmas/xmassymb.htm
tree: htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRHEB60.htm
F
fatherx
Guest
I see that you were unable to provide the book, chapter and verse where the scriptures tell us not to give gifts. I didn’t think it was in there, so you are conceding that you were wrong, progress.
The “church” you speak of is made up of man, please check James 3:2 on this. Mankind has a long history of making mistakes. Seems to me, Jesus was upset with the leaders of the church, you might want to rethink that one. Priests molesting little boys…well, do we really need to go there?
Please provide the book, chapter and verse where “engraving an image” takes place. As I’ve pointed out before, there is a paragraph mark at the end of verse five, after that, the topic goes on to other idols and customs.
Even if you don’t think Jeremiah 10:1-5 is describing the Christmas tree, it is still wrong for a Christian to practice the custom. Do a search on “Christmas tree origin”, and you will find web page after web page that admits that the tree is a heathen or pagan custom. Why would a Chritian knowingly practice a heathen custom? (Christ wouldn’t! And we’re to be Christ-like)
Picture a heathen custom, represented by a bowl of raw, stinky sewage. In your other hand, the Christ child represented by a bowl of wonderful ice cream. You want to mix the two together? Pour the sewage over the ice cream, now, who wants to take the first bite?
Pretty simple, the Lords says don’t practice the heathen tradition. Disobediance is sin, the wages of sin…
- Status