Is the Church intolerant for not Accepting Homosexual Behavior?

[vern_humphrey]

Yes, I agree…one religion CLAIMS to be the first and only true religion.

I would venture to guess that religion did exist before Christ’s time, and it would have been diffficult for any of them to get his commission…but they did exist, nonetheless.

You seem to follow Pagan Syncretism – that all religions are equally valid.

There was only one monotheistic religion – Judaism. Christianity came about throught the fulfilment of the Old Covenent by Christ and His creation of His Church as the New Covenant.

Why is it that the only inspired writers that the churtch wants one to believe lived between 16-18 centuries ago, and in the time after the death of Christ? Why not before? Why not now?

Why is the earth round, the sun hot and water wet?

If you studied Catholicism you’d see that the Canon is closed. Public revelation ended with the Apostles. They were commissioned by Christ to set up His Church.

No one else has that commission.

Why CAN’T there be *inspired writers *TODAY that can bring some (not all) of the questionable or outdated things into modern perspective?

Because there are not and cannot be any “modern inspired writers.” Public revelation came to a close with the Apostles.

Look around you – do you see Jesus walking the streets, healing the sick and raising the dead? He has risen and ascended into Heaven, and will not return until the Last Days.

errr…what kind of book report? Like from school days? Being an old guy, I’m kinda rusty on that concept!

I gave you the basic process – identify the theme of the book, then support your identification with evidence from the book.

But…you mention two accounts in Genesis…from two sources, I presume…with “slight differences”, but the theme the same.

My point exactly.

Find 25 accounts of Genesis…and 25 stories with those “slight differences” you mention, with the theme the same…

But there aren’t 25 accounts of the creation (and that’s what we’re talking about, not the whole book of Genesis. There are only two, and both maintain the theme of the inspired composer.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Yes, I agree…one religion CLAIMS to be the first and only true religion.

Based on history. See the home page of CA – the Library section.

I would venture to guess that religion did exist before Christ’s time, and it would have been diffficult for any of them to get his commission…but they did exist, nonetheless.

In particular, Judaism existed before Christ. And in fact Christ was a fulfilment of the Judaic revelation.

Why is it that the only inspired writers that the churtch wants one to believe lived between 16-18 centuries ago, and in the time after the death of Christ? Why not before?

Inaccurate. The Catholic Church decided on which texts were Sacred Texts and by far the majority of Sacred Texts are pre-Christ.

Why not now?

Some texts can be read as infallible teaching NOW. In any case current texts are enormously helpful. Try reading Faith and Reason by JPII.

Why CAN’T there be *inspired writers *TODAY that can bring some (not all) of the questionable or outdated things into modern perspective?

There are:

Humanae Vitae
Donum Vitae
Evangelium Vitae

errr…what kind of book report? Like from school days? Being an old guy, I’m kinda rusty on that concept!

One theme in Genesis is Life. And Death. The teaching on homosexual practice is rooted in God’s intention for us regarding the use of His gift of Life: the Gospel of Life.

But…you mention two accounts in Genesis…from two sources, I presume…with “slight differences”, but the theme the same.

Two accounts. Many accounts. One authority regarding interpretation. That authority was vested in the Church by Christ Himself.

Find 25 accounts of Genesis…and 25 stories with those “slight differences” you mention, with the theme the same… …and you can see where the POTENTIAL for misinterpretation later on can occur.

The potential exists outside the Church.

The Author of Life is God. Not man.

 

[deborahssong]

Greetings folks! Here is my take on this issue and some of the comments here. If the word of God is as you say, different versions, different meaning, then its in error. It is not! Jesus told the lady caught in adultry, that He did not condemn her, GO AND SIN NO MORE> We cannot practice christianity and do anything else but what Jesus did. If we do then we just dont undestand whom we serve. Its so simple. If God desired to have all sorts of meaning to different facets of the word and His church, then all sorts of kaos is allowed. He is NOT the author of confusion. The problem is that we have become a church who has laxed on absolutes. God has a “specific” plan set for man. If Gods word tells me that I should not lie then I shouldnt. If Gods word tells me to Not committ adultry, then that is what it means., Jesus gave us the gift of repentance when we do mess up! That is grace and mercy!
Anything other than that is doublemindedness. James tells us that doublemindedness is unstability and one who is doing that, how can he or she expect anything from the Lord? Not my words, but THE WORD> In my expertise of study this is the problem with all churches. Being laxed on meaning. By the way, did you kow the Greek meaning for salvation, and (hebrew), nothing missing nothing broken. and deliverance, healing, peace, That is pretty clear that when one knows Jesus life for us should change. Paul says we are NEW creations? what does that mean? We are no olonger ruled by our flesh. He says to walk in the spirit and not the flesh. That scripture is so plain to me.
If we make a stand on pediphillia then we cannot erase the other sexual sins, and they are. God did not create sexuality to abuse the original design. If we look at the physical aspect of man and woman it couldnt be any plainer. not trying to be disgusting tyring to make a point. how do you interpret Romans 1? God gave them over to the sin they were in and how do you explain that? Christianity is not to be defiled . From my church study over the past year, this is exactly why we have the division among us today! the early church was in one accord and walked the walk. Down thru the centuries, when man got involved and decided he didnt beleive this or that, this is why we have what we have today, called denominations. The first church was not a denomination, rules created by men, it was the catholic universal church, without all the manmade laws. Celibacy for priests, tolerance of sin in the church, paganism, all came in to play much much later. Man desired!
Paul’s teachings are so clear on church discipline. What to do when a brother is in sin or error. In the church of corinth there was incest abounding again, and he warned them to stop this now! To deal with this erring brother. IF that person doesnt repent then put him out, until he changes his ways and repents. How much plainer can the word of God be? In the church we are still doing the same things today, abusing the word of God! YET we still desire to debate the issue.
Again Jesus was clear about the paths that are right. We each one of us must determine in our hearts what we choose to beleive. Christians have to be who we are called to be. Of course loving all, but becomeing intolerant to sin. As I said, Jesus came to save that which was lost. Once we make Him our own, then we are obligated yes, to serve Him with all our hearts, minds and strength. Paul said grace and mercy is NOT a license to keep doing what youve always done. Plain and simple. Read it study it. I will end on this note. A friend of mine whose son is a practicing homosexual told her that the reason he is attending the catholic church is becasue there he can have a guy lover and its ok. He is a teacher of the word in the church, and I am here to tell you that goes against every scripture in Gods word. If the lifestyle was so ok, then why is there such misery within? It is not society that has caused them pain, it is the abomination they have brought upon themselves, because they are out of Gods will for themselves. He doesnt know who he is! In Christ!!! Freedom from the desires of the flesh! the living power of God lives in us yet we are broken, sick and miserable. Jesus paid a high price for our freedom. But He will not make anyone walk in it. He gave us a choice! Thanks much for the (name removed by moderator)ut. God Bless all.

 

[TotalTop]

Yes, the church is extremely hateful towards homosexuals. The catechism says that homosexuality is a grave disorder. The only good thing is that many priests are closet homosexuals and very personally tolerant of the fact that people are born gay. God made us want to love each other in many ways. I would never go back to such a hypocritical church as the Catholic Church that makes public statements of hate towards those with minority sexual orientations.

 

[estesbob]

Yes, the church is extremely hateful towards homosexuals. The catechism says that homosexuality is a grave disorder. The only good thing is that many priests are closet homosexuals and very personally tolerant of the fact that people are born gay. God made us want to love each other in many ways. I would never go back to such a hypocritical church as the Catholic Church that makes public statements of hate towards those with minority sexual orientations.

Do not feed the trollsmileys.smileycentral.com/cus/e_1_73.gif

smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb114&pp=ZS

 

[rlg94086]

Hi TotalTop,

Unfortunately, you are correct about some priests being “closet homosexuals” if you mean acting on their desires. There are other priests with same sex attraction who live a celibate life, just as do priests with opposite sex attraction.

What does the Catholic Church say about homosexuals that is hateful? She says that homosexual sex is a grave disorder, but She shows nothing but love towards those struggling with same sex attraction.

From the Catechism…

Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. ***They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. ***

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

We all struggle with sin. The problem comes when people say, “I don’t think that’s a sin, and I’m going to do it anyway!” That, to me, sounds more hateful than the Church - it’s like spitting at Jesus. While the Church can tolerate being spat upon, it is very difficult for individual Catholics to accept.

God bless,

Robert

Yes, the church is extremely hateful towards homosexuals. The catechism says that homosexuality is a grave disorder. The only good thing is that many priests are closet homosexuals and very personally tolerant of the fact that people are born gay. God made us want to love each other in many ways. I would never go back to such a hypocritical church as the Catholic Church that makes public statements of hate towards those with minority sexual orientations.

 

[TotalTop]

The Catholic Church has driven many gay youths to suicide by telling them that they are intrinsically disordered. This is hate speech and should be banned by the government.

 

[Mommyof02green]

The Catholic Church has driven many gay youths to suicide by telling them that they are intrinsically disordered. This is hate speech and should be banned by the government.

Do you have “prove” of this…

Are there STUDIES that will back this statement up???

 

[Dancelittleewok]

The Catholic Church has driven many gay youths to suicide by telling them that they are intrinsically disordered. This is hate speech and should be banned by the government.

Wouldn’t that mean that the government is driving pedophiles to suicide because it declares that they are disordered?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

The Catholic Church has driven many gay youths to suicide by telling them that they are intrinsically disordered. This is hate speech and should be banned by the government.

Please be accurate.

The Catholic Church does not tell homosexuals that they are intrinsically disordered. She tells them that the homosexual ACT is intrinsically disordered. Homosexual people are welcome in the Church.

Also, I would recommend that you actually use your search engine and read the legislation on hate propaganda. You will find that the Catholic Church’s position on homosexuality does not meet the criteria for hate propaganda.

You are a new poster. A little reading of the forums will reveal to you that this website has a tradition of backing up points of view with links to authoritative sources. So, if you make a claim, please back it up with a link. You can make a link by hilighting the name of your reference and clicking the blue world with a link ikon at the top of your message window.

 

[fix]

Wouldn’t that mean that the government is driving pedophiles to suicide because it declares that they are disordered?

Along those lines:

Next, we ask–do the papers show that it is gay lifestyle factors, or society’s stigmatization, that are the motivators that lead a person to attempt suicide? Neither conclusion is inevitable. Still, Saghir and Robins (1978) examined reasons for suicide attempts among homosexuals and found that if the reasons for the attempt were connected with homosexuality, about 2/3 were due to breakups of relationships --not outside pressures from society.

Similarly, Bell and Weinberg (1981) also found the major reason for suicide attempts was the breakup of relationships. In second place, they said, was the inability to accept oneself. Since homosexuals have greater numbers of partners and breakups, compared with heterosexuals, and since longterm gay male relationships are rarely monagamous, it is hardly surprising if suicide attempts are proportionally greater. The median number of partners for homosexuals is four times higher than for heterosexuals (Whitehead and Whitehead 1999, calculated from Laumann et al 1994).
narth.com/docs/whitehead.html

 

[estesbob]

The Catholic Church has driven many gay youths to suicide by telling them that they are intrinsically disordered. This is hate speech and should be banned by the government.

There is NO evidence that teen homosexuals commit suicde becuse of the church or anyone else disaproves of their sexual behavior. The main reason they have a slighly higher rate of suicide is due to the rampant promiscouity engaged in by the majortiy of homosexuals. More partners means more breakups and the emotional stress of breakups is a contributing factor to a large number of suicidesby both among teen homosexuals and heterosexual . The lesson to be learned here is not that one should not condemn immoral behavior-its that one should not enage in sex until they are emotionally mature enogh to handle all that goes with it-best bet of course waiting until one is married.

 

[Mr_Jullien]

Yes, the church is extremely hateful towards homosexuals. The catechism says that homosexuality is a grave disorder. The only good thing is that many priests are closet homosexuals and very personally tolerant of the fact that people are born gay. God made us want to love each other in many ways. I would never go back to such a hypocritical church as the Catholic Church that makes public statements of hate towards those with minority sexual orientations.

Well then, according to your logic, you won’t be attending ***any ***church that teaches from and/or adheres to Sacred Scripture.
Are you going to condemn “The Word Of God”, the same way you condemn the Catholic Church?

As you can plainly see, Paul is adamantly intolerant of homosexual acts, or any other acts of immorality for that matter.

Was ***he ***a hypocrite?

Romans 1: 22-27 22 For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. 23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. 27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.

**1 Corinthians 6: 9-10
**9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate , nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 1: 9-10
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for the just man, but for the unjust and disobedient, for the ungodly, and for sinners, for the wicked and defiled, for murderers of fathers, and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For fornicators, for them who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and whatever other thing is contrary to sound doctrine

Sorry, but Sacred Scripture (the Inspired Word of God) and the Church aren’t going to cater to the individual inclinations of mankind.

PAX,

Jullien

 

[Mr_Jullien]

There is NO evidence that teen homosexuals commit suicde becuse of the church or anyone else disaproves of their sexual behavior.

Of course there isn’t.
Notice he didn’t post even ***one ***link to back up his claim?
And if he does happen to find one, it will be biased and terribly lacking of any credibility whatsoever.

PAX,

Jullien

 

[TotalTop]

Typical lies by those with a hetereosexual agenda. Obviously Paul was a suppressed homosexual or bisexual. Any psychologist could spot that from a mile off.

 

[fix]

Typical lies by those with a hetereosexual agenda. Obviously Paul was a suppressed homosexual or bisexual. Any psychologist could spot that from a mile off.

Would not a heterosexual agenda be a good thing?

Is psychology infallible?

 

[Mommyof02green]

Typical lies by those with a hetereosexual agenda. Obviously Paul was a suppressed homosexual or bisexual. Any psychologist could spot that from a mile off.

Seeing any psychologist can spot that from a mile off…

Can you PLEASE PROVIDE us with a psychologist that has made that statement!!!

Please provide us with the name, location of the psychologist.
Please provide us with the statement from the psychologist.
Please provide us with info on where the psychologist practices and license to practice.

Thanks

 

[deborahssong]

God Bless everyone! here is the deal. Plain and simple. If one has professed Jesus as Lord and savior, one cannot live like he always has! A change must take place. It is a supernatural change. I will share some of my own testimony. I tried to committ suicide at the age of 21. Why? because my childhood came to haunt me and I never got help for it. Many times what we experience as children, if disturbing or taumatic, will impact us in such a way that it messes up the normal growing process, mentally and socially. Now I didnt practice homosexuality, but I had other issues going on. Praise God I became free through the power of the Blood of Jesus Christ! My goodness if that werent possible then whom is it we are serving? God is good and there is NO DARKNESS in Him at all. Not my words the apostle Johns.
It comes down to this, IF we say we are christians, then we either beleive the scriptures or we dont. Its quite obvious many do not. they are christians in NAME only! Im quite sure its a terrible ordeal to be caught in such a bondage. and it is. I have observed the lives of those who live as they do and Im telling you they are very troubled people. This is a soul realm bondage! To say that one is born this way? Then we are saying God is responsible and that goes against His own words! He is not the author of confusion and God is NOt man that He should lie! We must choose by faith that all of the word is absolute. God cannot be many things to many people. He IS ABSOLUTE and He is God! The church is not hatred! The church should be about His truth.To teach anything other than the word would make the church false. loving them yes, but that doesnt mean accptance of their lifetsyle which is sin. God loves us, but will allow us to choose our own ways. every time. He dsires us to love Him from choosing faith!
THERE IS DELIVERANCE! Make the effort to choose Gods ways and we will walk in victory, every time. God delivered me of fear, insecurity, poor self worth and much much more. When I walked out what He said I began to experience true freedom! This is for everyone who calls Him Lord! He is an awesome God the only One! HIs ways are perfect, and secure and will bring us abundant living! He says so. God bless all! SHalom!

 

[Holly3278]

The Church is intolerant of it but that is not a bad thing. That is a good thing and it is a wise thing. It is what the Church has always done.

Early Teachings on Homosexuality

 

[deborahssong]

By the way? I know of a great bible teacher who by the way was a former physchologist. He has an awesome story about how God delivered him from believiing everything intellectually. cause the truth is Gods ways are NOT MANS> His ways are higher than ours and He is spiritual. We are to be driven by our spirits and NOT OUR FLESH! Gods original design.
I am quite aware of the physco counsleing thats out there. I had much therapy back years ago. Of course it helped me put things in perspcetive however, when we get our eyes off of oourselves, then and only then can we really heal. Self absorption will lead to depression and many other illnesses. That is a fact. To attempt to help a person without addressing thier soul and spirit is not helping them. ONLY placing a band aid on the wound. When I dealt with my heart and spirit then I began a journey of awesome healing! NOw today/ I am a student of the word, I teach the word, and I have been an advocate for many , and I am in ministry. Only a healed soul could accomplish those successes God intends for every human being! Deborah