Is the Church Leaving Me?

[fide]

Greetings AJC - PART 2:

1. “Being able to pray before Mass and not have people talking and socializing.” This is a problem that some pastors recognize, and rarely talk about, I think from fear of offending. Although I have often seen priests themselves chatting away in voice loud enough to be heard anywhere in the sanctuary. And maybe this was for true charitable cause – but maybe not always. The problem, in my thought, is the decline in reverence that we are seeing – even in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Jesus is Present! And yet people chat away completely ignoring Him, as if they were in a coffee shop, as if the Holy Mass were not to begin soon, as if they were not to be called soon to offer themselves with Him in His perfect Sacrifice, before God the Father, before all the angels and saints in heaven, before their fellow parishioners – very soon, in the Holy Mass. Is not prayer fitting, and needful, in this moment?
2. Finally, “Honestly the only thing that keeps me Roman Catholic is Christ and the Sacraments. But for how long?” For me, as I wrote in (1) above, I must remain, and to the end. The offering of Holy Mass ought to be celebrated for what it is: holy, supernatural, God-with-us, indeed, “heaven on earth.” We ought to do what we can do to help/encourage our brothers and sisters to enter into this miracle of the Mass, worthily. Maybe there are ways for you to work toward bettering our common worship together – I don’t know your situation. I offer Scripture and other adult formation opportunities, to try to help other Catholics along the way in our brief time on this earth. We ought to do what we can do, whatever that is.

But specific to the Mass - this thought helps me personally, painful as Mass can be sometimes: The Passion of Christ – which is made Present in the Mass, sacramentally (meaning bloodlessly) – was much more painful. They mocked Him, they spit upon Him, they laughed at Him. Reverence and due respect is often lacking in the Mass, and seems to be in decline generally, but the irreverence and disrespect shown Jesus in His Holy Passion was much greater. He suffered it, He suffered through it, to the end. So must we.

We are called to carry our own cross, for Him, for the Gospel. As Paul wrote,

Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,…

We must remain faithful, and He will never abandon us. He will not abandon His Church. “Lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Mt 28:20) That “close of the age” may be near! But until it arrives, we persevere in faith, whatever the cost.

 

[AJC]

Wow! What a wonderful and HELPFUL reply, thus far. Thank you for taking the time. You truly understand that the Church is a hospital for the (spiritually) sick and not a hall of fame for the sanctimonious.

 

[AJC]

fide, again many thanks. I don’t know if you understand what I am going to write, but sometimes you (meaning me) know things, but that knowledge gets pushed so far back in one’s mind overtaken by confusion, sadness, bitterness. Your response brought forth things, not forgotten in me, but put away in the dusty closet of my mind.

 

[AJC]

That’s the problem. “Hallelujah” is what I call a God word, like God speak, so the song gets a pass.
It’s a pretty song, and moving. Cohen was a great poet. But there are other secular songs that have a much stronger Christian message but contain no God words.

 

[AJC]

Last evening watching a convert’s story on TJH I was taken by the young lady’s clarity. Thanks to those who encouraged me, and to those sanctimonious types if I fall overboard I will not ask you to throw me a life ring.
Note, I didn’t say I was leaving the Church. I expressed my concerns of what I see around me in the Church. It’s my opinion and that and $1.00 will get you 4 crappy chicken nuggets at any fast food restaurant.

It occurred to me that the last time, in my life, I was seriously catechized was at Confirmation Classes, age 10, 56 years ago. As much as I read, while I get the dogma and doctrine, I was ignorant of what was taking place at the Mass as a whole. I’ve reached out for some advice elsewhere in the hopes it will refocus my attention at Mass.

Last evening fell asleep listening to LOVE OF JESUS TO PENITENTS by Cardinal Henry Edward Manning.

Have a blessed 2018 folks. Be well. Let’s continue to discuss these issues. I appreciate your help.

 

[Xantippe]

I expressed my concerns of what I see around me in the Church.

I think people are puzzled because you’re 66 and you’re mostly complaining about problems that hit bottom 30 and 40 years ago and have been getting better for the last 20 years–it’s like you went into a coma in 1967, woke up this year, and are comparing today to 1967, rather than 1977 or 1987.

We attend several different parishes (this is in TX) and just about never encounter any of the problems you describe. Our local priests are (as a rule), intelligent, orthodox, pastoral and reverent. It is true, though, that the local averages are a lot better than when we lived in the NE US and frequently encountered what I have to describe as “suburban Catholicism.” We have encountered the occasional oddball in TX, but the average priest in our area is very impressive–but this is the Bible Belt, we live among the Baptists, and they keep local Catholics on our toes.

 

[Axsenex]

It’s been 2,000 years and I’m sure every time something changed then they complain about it.

 

[Bataar]

AJC:

I expressed my concerns of what I see around me in the Church.

I think people are puzzled because you’re 66 and you’re mostly complaining about problems that hit bottom 30 and 40 years ago and have been getting better for the last 20 years–it’s like you went into a coma in 1967, woke up this year, and are comparing today to 1967, rather than 1977 or 1987.

We attend several different parishes (this is in TX) and just about never encounter any of the problems you describe. Our local priests are (as a rule), intelligent, orthodox, pastoral and reverent. It is true, though, that the local averages are a lot better than when we lived in the NE US and frequently encountered what I have to describe as “suburban Catholicism.” We have encountered the occasional oddball in TX, but the average priest in our area is very impressive–but this is the Bible Belt, we live among the Baptists, and they keep local Catholics on our toes.

It depends on your location. Texas is generally considered more religious and conservative than other parts of the country. I can definitely see where AJC is coming from based on parishes up here in Seattle. Like I said earlier, at most parishes here, the entire purpose of the Mass and the most important thing that happens at Mass seems to be the sign of peace.

 

[guanophore]

The focus or centrality of the Mass should not be you, I, or the road show participants on the altar, it should be Christ.

I must confess, I find the socializing and chatting before and after Mass annoying also. Space should be made for parishioners to visit elsewhere, so that those who wish to spend quiet time with the Blessed Sacrament can do so.

I visited a Church where the vessels were not purified, and the extraordinary ministers just lined up the cups in a niche in the wall. After Mass, they returned to the spot and consumed the precious blood, chatting and laughing as if they were at a wine tasting party. I was so demoralized by the lack of respect for the Sacrament, I never went back.

For me it’s the amount of laity our priest has up there on the altar. No exaggeration, it’s anywhere from 10 to 12. All adults. And not one is a deacon. Frankly, our two deacons just disappeared. Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist were to be just that, extraordinary. It’s distracting.

I agree whole heartedly. I went to a Mass at a large, popular shrine. The Masses are quite large, but the huge cadre of a dozen or so extraordinary ministers spread out across the front of the altar created a nightmarish traffic jam during communion. It seems like, if there are going to be that many (which really is not appropriate) at least they could be arranged so that traffic is smooth. People can’t focus on the holiness of the moment when they are bumping into one another and tripping over one another’s feet!

What is wrong with waiting a few moments to approach and receive the sacrament? Why are we trying to run it like a fast food drive through?

I know the USCCB said projectors are not to be part of the Mass, yet there are images, words, Windows screens projected right next to our ten foot long crucifix. It’s not kosher. Frankly, I am going to, in charity, talk to him. If he blows me off, I tried.

Good for you, AJC. It is appropriate for you to express your concerns to the right persons. You are right, they may not listen, but it is your obligation to try.

History shows Church and State make strange bedfellows.

Not only strange, but dangerous in many ways. I think the reformation may have been avoided if the Church had not aligned itself with politics.

It’s not your place to worry about fiscal policy or merits of others. Put down that burden brother.

What kind of citizens would we be, if we are not educated and concerned about the world for which we are to be salt and light?

 

[Xantippe]

Not only strange, but dangerous in many ways. I think the reformation may have been avoided if the Church had not aligned itself with politics.

[snip]

What kind of citizens would we be, if we are not educated and concerned about the world for which we are to be salt and light?

Those two points are both true, but exist in tension.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The most popular verses are about illicit sex. Not exactly God speak

 

[petra22]

Hang in there for just the reasons you said. Jesus and the sacraments. Don’t let the world distract you. I love that saying–Heaven! Don’t miss it for the world.! Maybe Satan is testing you to challenge your faith. Hang on to Jesus. Spend some time in front of the Holy Eucharist… I wish I could…

 

[AJC]

My unscientific observation about the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic is that there are many Roman Catholics, but these are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation of the children of Catholic immigrants. Add to that the Sodom and Gomorrah that is the Secular West in the 20th and 21st centuries and what you get is a lot of Cultural Catholics. I see it in my own family. Catholic is just something you are. Like being of Italian heritage. The Bishops and Priests in this are think if they confront this Cultural Catholicism they’ll drive more people away. When priests in my part of the country have tried to confront the culture they get a lot of push back from the laity and they get no back up from the Diocesan Bishop.

 

[philipl]

I feel the exact same way.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Change is not always a good thing.

 

[mkoopman]

That’s right, he is done because he has attended to raising eyebrows and acting to divide and conquer. Good to help a disaffected parishioner to leave the one true faith for greener pastures.

Politics comes in all forms and these in the guise of “faithful” ways are the most nauseating.
God knows our hearts - He does not raise a campaign to win hearts and minds. He loves us.

 

[mkoopman]

They perform abortions right on the altar in the great State of Washington with the new mandate, don’t they?

 

[Mr_Freeze]

What on earth are talking about?
I took issue with the charge that the SSPX is schismatic, when they in fact, are not. I know it’s a very widespread misconception, especially here on CAF, but it’s simply not true. So, if you are under the impression that I have some sort of agenda other than using terms correctly, and posting truth in the face of un-truth, then you are mistaken. I hope the OP realizes at least that the church is not leaving him. There is a mass and parish out there for him somewhere. And, if not, then I guess he just offers it up and fulfills his weekly obligation like so many others do.

Yes, they are still “irregular”.
Yes, they have their own internal problems.
Yes, they have their fair share of whackos.

 

[Mark121359]

Your complaints are about relatively trivial matters

Well many disagree, Including some pretty experienced churchmen. Such as Pope Benedict XVl, and Cardinal Robert Sarah. The first two of the following are recent articles. But the last article is from the late 90’s by then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger that shows us that this “crisis” is nothing new. The simple fact is, is that most Catholics are simply unaware of the situation, or are content with it. Notice that nowhere in these articles, that they say that the “crisis” that the Church is facing is at the parish level, but rather with the RCC as a whole. So IMNSHO, the OP is clearly correct in many of his observations.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...y-face-a-profound-crisis-says-cardinal-sarah/

Benedict XVI: Obscuring God in the Liturgy Is Root Cause of Crisis

Writing in the preface of a Russian edition of his book ‘Theology of the Liturgy,’ the Pope emeritus says a misunderstanding of liturgical reform has placed the Church in danger.

www.ncregister.com

Library : Cardinal Ratzinger Blames Church Crisis on Liturgical Collapse

Cardinal Ratzinger Blames Church Crisis on Liturgical Collapse A review of Cardinal Ratzinger's autobiography.

www.catholicculture.org

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Sspx is not schismatic