Is the Church really hording wealth?

[RobHom]

whatever gets you through the night.

 

[jean8]

Exactly. If this is her only beef with the Church, then there is something else she’s not telling you. That is a feeble attempt of hers as an excuse to not be Catholic.

Ask her what’s REALLY keeping her from the Truth.

~Liza

Just a comment, on the other side of the fence. We have sects and their preachers living like sultans. Many have more than one opulent mansion. They think they deserve it. I’m sure you have heard of Jim and Tammy Baker. They both have different lifesytles today. I hope they have found happiness.
I enjoy going to beautiful churches, Don’t you.

God bless,
jean8

 

[iamme]

Just a comment, on the other side of the fence. We have sects and their preachers living like sultans. Many have more than one opulent mansion. They think they deserve it. I’m sure you have heard of Jim and Tammy Baker. They both have different lifesytles today. I hope they have found happiness.
I enjoy going to beautiful churches, Don’t you.

God bless,
jean8

tammy baker doesnt have a lifestyle.
she died of cancer.

 

[kimmielittle]

IMHO, when I use crude, rude and abusive remarks…I seem to lose my credibility - both in my argument and personal standing.

 

[Feanor]

Gosh- this conversation really went downhill. . .

If a non-Catholic wants to believe the Church is wealthy and hoards wealth then more power to them. I believe there have been some well thought out arguments but we can’t always change someone"s mind.

 

[ExclaimPoint]

My 21 yo daughter is wavering in her faith. One reason is because some of her fallen away friends have convinced her that the Church has tremendous wealth in the form of gold and jewels and priceless artwork that it could sell to use to help the poor, but instead the Church insists on “hording” this wealth. I told her that the Church does have art, etc. that has great historical value, but I’m not sure the Church is “hording” it. I have never been strong in my apologetics. How would any of you respond to this? Are there any sources I can go to for information? I need to be able to present another side of the story to her soon. Thanks!

mary ann

I’ve heard this argument from “christians” who make the same claim but ignore the ministers of churches who pull in a million plus in rich neighborhoods.

Why don’t they work for minimum wage, sell their expensive lifestyles, wear dirty clothes, and take up a cross and follow Jesus? Why? Because its too damn hard!

Also, the Catholic Church keeps the Vatican intact for future generations of Catholics as well as the rest of the civilized world.

 

[kimmielittle]

Hiyas Suntann,

IMHO, the Churches wealth, is an excuse, your daughter is using to “justify” her acts. I’m afraid if you answer this excuse, she would find another to replace it with.

Might I suggest a “heart to heart” with her, in order to find the underlying problem, not deal with her excuses.

I hope this helps.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

you can go to a museum and look at everything in there any time you want.
how about the vatican?

Having just been to the Vatican Museums in December, they have a lot of stuff there.

Maybe you should look into what the Vatican does offer. They have a website.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

My 21 yo daughter is wavering in her faith. One reason is because some of her fallen away friends have convinced her that the Church has tremendous wealth in the form of gold and jewels and priceless artwork that it could sell to use to help the poor, but instead the Church insists on “hording” this wealth. I told her that the Church does have art, etc. that has great historical value, but I’m not sure the Church is “hording” it. I have never been strong in my apologetics. How would any of you respond to this? Are there any sources I can go to for information? I need to be able to present another side of the story to her soon. Thanks!

mary ann

Ask if her if she has any elaborate clothing.

Matter of fact, she should probably just by from thrift stores for the rest of her life, and only wear hand-me-downs/second-hand.

 

[mnealon1]

Delighted this subject came up! I agree with Lizanne, that (Suntann) your daughter has other issues. I have been down this road with my daughter, who was outraged that the Pope had Gucci shoes. Now I do not know if he has or not!! BUT she was hooked on the idea!, also the wealth of the Vatican, and giving it to the poor ect.I know my daughter really has other major issues i.e. her Faith and wont for a moment let me explain ANYTHING to her. When I go on a Pilgrimage I am told not to bring back anything “Holy”
This of course hurts me, and worry for her so much.
One day in the middle of a “talk?!” where I was deeply offended my her remarks I told her “thank you very much for hurting me for my beliefs” I told her she was the cause of me receiving graces for trying to defend my faith and she nearlly fell off the chair! I am almost forbidden to bring up anything religious but recently I “hear” a chink of light in conversation with her sister I pray a lot !
I recently had occasion to ring the Bishops House and while talking to a Priest there I spoke to him about my daughter and her concern about the Vatican and the wealth issue! He laughted and said when he was young he thought that way also. He told me the New York was the most wealthy parish! It has more money than the Vatican

 

[i_have_no_names]

The difference between the Vatican and the others listed above… is that the money spent to build St. Peters and the Vatican…was money that was willingly donated, and yes…some was derived from the selling of indulgences by Tetzel…but the fact is…the monies spent were “given” freely by the people, unlike tax monies that are “collected” whether you want to pay them or not…to the governments that assess them.

I hate to play devil’s advocate, but I have to ask…

My grade ten History textbook (for use in public schools in my province) says that in the Middle Ages/Renaissance & Reformation period, tithes were a required tax (not donation), and leaders of countries outside of Italy especially disliked the Church for this reason - because it meant that 10% of their citizens’ income was leaving the country, and being put to use toward the building of large cathedrals, mostly in Rome and Italy.

In fact, the book says that, in order to build Cathedrals in Rome, the Church ‘abused money-making tactics to the extreme’ (or something like that).

The textbook seems to be mostly written from a pretty-much objective point of view. Is the book wrong, or have you just been leaving this detail out of the discussion?

 

[kimmielittle]

Delighted this subject came up! I agree with Lizanne, that (Suntann) your daughter has other issues. I have been down this road with my daughter, who was outraged that the Pope had Gucci shoes. Now I do not know if he has or not!! BUT she was hooked on the idea!, also the wealth of the Vatican, and giving it to the poor ect.I know my daughter really has other major issues i.e. her Faith and wont for a moment let me explain ANYTHING to her. When I go on a Pilgrimage I am told not to bring back anything “Holy”
This of course hurts me, and worry for her so much.
One day in the middle of a “talk?!” where I was deeply offended my her remarks I told her “thank you very much for hurting me for my beliefs” I told her she was the cause of me receiving graces for trying to defend my faith and she nearlly fell off the chair! I am almost forbidden to bring up anything religious but recently I “hear” a chink of light in conversation with her sister I pray a lot !
I recently had occasion to ring the Bishops House and while talking to a Priest there I spoke to him about my daughter and her concern about the Vatican and the wealth issue! He laughted and said when he was young he thought that way also. He told me the New York was the most wealthy parish! It has more money than the Vatican

Hiyas
I’m a kid and heard “Pope had Gucci shoes” argument ( or lack of argument ) cause I ask’d them “wouldn’t only some one looking for excuses not to go to Church notice this.?”…“I mean I don’t look at shoes at Mass, do you.?” “I think I’m there for other reasons”…“Does wearing Gucci’s or Goulashes take away / add to / from the Sacraments.?”…“I mean aren’t we there for the Sacraments, after all.?”

Mostly, they just stop their arguments, at least, to me.

Please know, your acts ARE SEEN by your Daughter and WILL help you to reach her.

 

[seveda]

Just as an information.

I have read in a newspaper some time ago that the pope got the shoes (some red ones-not sure if it were Gucci) as a gift while on a visit to an italian city (forgot which). He actualy got a hundred pairs or so and gave them all except one or two pairs to some charity, which distributed them to poor children.

 

[kimmielittle]

Just as an information.

I have read in a newspaper some time ago that the pope got the shoes (some red ones-not sure if it were Gucci) as a gift while on a visit to an italian city (forgot which). He actualy got a hundred pairs or so and gave them all except one or two pairs to some charity, which distributed them to poor children.

Thank You

I found this in a Reuters report; Here:
uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUKL2159887220070421
Sat Apr 21, 2007
“VIGEVANO, Italy (Reuters) - Pope Benedict got 15,001 pairs of shoes on Saturday.
During a visit to this northern city known as Italy’s shoe capital, a local consortium gave one pair for himself and 15,000 more pairs for the needy around the world.
The Pope was given red loafers designed and manufactured by the Moreschi firm and made from kangaroo hide.
Those destined for the poor include boots and other types of footwear. Local industrialists are due to send them directly to charities chosen by the Vatican.”

 

[mackbrislawn]

My 21 yo daughter is wavering in her faith. One reason is because some of her fallen away friends have convinced her that the Church has tremendous wealth in the form of gold and jewels and priceless artwork that it could sell to use to help the poor, but instead the Church insists on “hording” this wealth. I told her that the Church does have art, etc. that has great historical value, but I’m not sure the Church is “hording” it. I have never been strong in my apologetics. How would any of you respond to this? Are there any sources I can go to for information? I need to be able to present another side of the story to her soon. Thanks!

mary ann

A number of years ago there was a movie, “The Shoes of the Fisherman,” in which the Pope did decide to sell artworks in order to give the proceeds to the poor.

Now, suppose that had actually happened back then. What would be the situation of the poor today? Exactly the same as it is in reality now! Because the poor we will always have with us. However, the Church would then always be without the artworks produced by faithful Christians of centuries past. The Church is not hoarding, but holding in stewardship Christian art for the benefit of the faithful of all generations.

The value of the Church’s art is not financial, but spiritual.

 

[mackbrislawn]

1. i2) getting a comparative analysis would be pointless, because i dont know of any other religion that has a central base of operation that regulates the traditions and rules that each of the smaller congregations have to follow. if you could point me to the main headquarters for judaism or islam, or the like, then im sure id have the same questions about their practices, if they came out to address the public adorned in gold crosses, ruby rings and robes, with goblets encrusted with jewels.

The Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses have strong central headquarters that the local congregations have to follow. And these organizations are extremely wealthy–both organizations have extensive property holdings as well as large incomes.

 

[adawgj]

“The Church should sell it’s art collection and give the money to the poor.”

Why doesn’t the White House it has a lot of art and historical artifacts. That would help ease the soup kitchens.
Why not sell the art from Buckingham Palace and give the money to the poor.

Even if the millions of dollars worth of art does sell the poor would remain poor.

 

[Brendan]

“The Church should sell it’s art collection and give the money to the poor.”

Why doesn’t the White House it has a lot of art and historical artifacts. That would help ease the soup kitchens…

Even better, they could sell franchsie and naming rights, like they do for municipal stadiums.

We could get some extra money for education and food for the poor from renaming the Washington Monument, the “Kenmore Washing ton monument”

That would be just down the Washington Mall ( which could be sold to developers and build an actual mall) from the Lincoln-Mercury Memorial.

And just think of how much healthcare could be provided by selling Warren Buffett and Bill Gates images rights on Mt Rushmore.

So yes, there is a LOT we can do here at home to raise money for the poor without even bothering the Vatican…

 

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