B
Birdpreacher
Guest
A lot of my conservative catholic friends get married very young.(early 20s) Is this the norm?
Excellent points.As another poster stated, you are obviously going through a rough time due your parents’ divorce and your family situation. In addition, you are at an age of rebellion. May I ask if you are a psychology major, based on your moniker? Well, I’m a psychology professor and a liberal Democrat and non-Catholic as well, and I can tell you that the studies done on cohabitation cross-culturally have shown statistically that these relationships generally result in separation after not too long a period of time. Of about 20 countries in which cohabitation was studied, Catholic countries have the lowest rate (as one might expect), except for France and Poland, for various reasons, and Scandanavian countries the highest. The US is mid-range. Still, for all these countries, the majority of couples who cohabit fail to commit and leave the relationship. Statistically, these relationships are less successful than marriage and with none of the rewards. Think about this, do some research, and, most important, don’t make any hasty decisions since you are going through a troubled time and your power of judgment is not at its best right now.
While I sympathize with psymajor and the stuggle he is going through. I have to agree that he has failed to take into account EVERYTHING a SAHM does. Trust me it’s not walk in the park. We DO NOT sit around everyday and eat bonbons. The Childcare aspect of what we do alone is worth about $400-$500 a week, and that’s conservative.This is one of the posts where the pain of the OP is palpable. Prayers for you, psymajor.
That being said, a few points.
My bride is a stay-at -home mom. What she does is invaluable. She is handing on the Faith, through her service to, and love for, our children and our family. One cannot put a price on something like that.
That reality aside, your view of the value of a SAHM does not consider, for one thing among many possibilities, if the spouse that stays home gave up her career. What then? She’s not going back into the job market at the same place she was before staying home. I can only imagine your thoughts on alimony. What about the husband who decides he wants a younger spouse? What if he is the one giving up on the marriage?
Three, I think your family, or perhaps one spouse, may have been a little beyond low income, or the family wouldn’t have had that much to spend in the first place.
Fourth, why are the lawyers greedy? The parties could have setted at any time. Lawyers do not have anything to sell but their expertise and time.
Fifth, OP, in a few years, I would wager that your opinion on this will have changed dramatically.
First of all I take great offense to this. I am a 32 year old stay-at-home-mom with a B.A. in English Lit and a minor in Theology and I’m damn proud of staying home and taking care of my 5 children (5th one due in Sept.) and the house, and homeschooling and whatever else comes up during the course of a day. And if you think that’s being lazy, then I welcome you to come over here and just keep up with laundry for a day.The stay-at-home mom nonsense is ending pretty quickly in America. Nowadays, both parents work to make a living, meaning that your situation is not an issue. Plus, you have to remember that there are a lot of cases where one spouse is lazy and the other does all the work. Even in that case, the lazy spouse still gets half the stuff. Plus, the very reason you listed is what makes cohabitation so attractive to guys, including myself. Why should I sign away my legal and financial autonomy? When a guy gets married, that woman automatically gets half of everything, even if she is cheating her butt off.
Well. other than the obvious, venerial diseases are at an all time high. If you choose to go the noncovenental, non marriage route, you WILL get a disease. Its only a matter of time. 75% of adults have either HPV or HSV2. Condoms do NOT protect against these. Since you have a much better chance of the relationship failing without a marriage certificate, It is better to be married, to partake of this activity. Do the research. tell me what your conclusions are when you are done. Would this change your mind any? Peace and prayers for you my friend.The position of the Catholic Church is that marriage is a requirement for two people who want to be together. The justification for the position is that marriage is God’s plan for a man and woman who love each other (and that anything else is a perversion of God’s plan). I have been a Catholic my entire life (and I still am). But during the past year, I have become more skeptical with regards to what the church tells people to do.
My question is this: Why does the Catholic Church continue to promote an institution that is not helping people (and in many cases hurting them more)? Nowadays, cohabitation is on the rise in the United States (as well as other parts of the world). If the cohabitation trend continues, it is set to overtake marriage in the United States (as it already has in Scandinavia). Aside from a few minor legal benefits that most people don’t care about that much, marriage does not provide anything that cohabitation cannot provide to couples (love, companionship, happiness, sex, children, etc). If the relationship ends, marriage is a lot more harmful financially due to the legal costs associated with a divorce. Yes, with cohabitation there can still be a child custody battle (if children are involved). However, marriage has the potential for a child custody battle AND a divorce battle (making it much messier than cohabitation).
The reason I ask this question is that my parents, both of whom are Catholic, are going through a terrible divorce. Prior to the divorce, the marriage was a disaster. They got separated back in 2006 (when I was in high school). The divorce has lasted for a few years, but it’s not over yet. Collectively, they spent over $80,000 on attorney fees and it still is not over yet (and our family is low-income, not rich). The divorce was a financial disaster. I’m in college now and this is making things much harder. Honestly, I do not see the functional purpose that marriage serves. After I saw what happened with my parents, I’m thinking about turning my back on marriage altogether and just living with a girl out of wedlock instead.
This being said, why does the Catholic Church continue to tell people that marriage is the only way a man and woman can be together? People would not be turning away from marriage and doing cohabitation if marriage was really that much better. In the case of my parents, it turned out to be a lot worse. Anyway, I said quite a bit, so I will open it up for discussion.
I think others have adequately addressed your lack of regard for the work that stay at home mothers do. You say that nowadays most parents work…this may be true, but only in part. Many mothers work part time. Others may work full time, but the time they took off previously to have and raise kids has placed their career at a disadvantage compared to if they had worked all that time (or compared to a man in a similar role). All things being equal, a woman is disadvantaged financially by becoming a mother, so we can’t just have men up and leave, taking the assets and income, when they no longer feel like the relationship is worthwhile.The stay-at-home mom nonsense is ending pretty quickly in America. Nowadays, both parents work to make a living, meaning that your situation is not an issue.
What you imply here is that you don’t want to sign up for any legal and financial responsibility. Cohabitation (in a state where it’s not legally recognised) offers you the ability to wash your hands and walk away whenever you feel like it. But what about your responsibilities? What about your children? What about the mother of your children who has foregone a career and income (at least in part) to stay at home and take care of your children?the very reason you listed is what makes cohabitation so attractive to guys, including myself. Why should I sign away my legal and financial autonomy?
The red part is right on the money. What about inheiritance and such. More than likely, relationships where there is no marriage, fall apart. Why? Because there is no real committment. You will say, “well whats a little piece of paper gonna do?” If its such a small thing, then why not get your commitment in writing. Im divorced myself She got Wayyy more than half. does that mean, I just Live with a woman, and never trust her because of what someone else did? No. Ive actually had girlfriends get mad, because I would not move in with them. I think its a huge mistake to co habitate. Your setting yourself up to eventually move out, AND, you are gonna probably have alot of babies by alot of different women. All of this is NOT ok.I think others have adequately addressed your lack of regard for the work that stay at home mothers do. You say that nowadays most parents work…this may be true, but only in part. Many mothers work part time. Others may work full time, but the time they took off previously to have and raise kids has placed their career at a disadvantage compared to if they had worked all that time (or compared to a man in a similar role). All things being equal, a woman is disadvantaged financially by becoming a mother, so we can’t just have men up and leave, taking the assets and income, when they no longer feel like the relationship is worthwhile.
What you imply here is that you don’t want to sign up for any legal and financial responsibility. Cohabitation (in a state where it’s not legally recognised) offers you the ability to wash your hands and walk away whenever you feel like it. But what about your responsibilities? What about your children? What about the mother of your children who has foregone a career and income (at least in part) to stay at home and take care of your children?
The crux of your post holds very true…divorce is terrible. But you advocate cohabitation as a solution, when in fact it makes relationship breakdown much more likely. In addition, it does nothing to lessen the financial burdens involved in divorce, unless you take the approach of simply walking away, which is unfair to children and the parent who has sacrificed more by way of career and income in caring for them.
A lifelong marriage is the best way to provide the financial and emotional support for both spouses and their children. But there are no guarantees. Your best bet is to find a partner who shares the same belief system that you do, and the same commitment to a lifelong partnership. A partner who you agree to cohabit for as long as it’s enjoyable and convenient for you both is unlikely to provide the meaningful relationship that most people seek.
Hi Holly. I find it facinating, that those who DO cohabitate, say they love and trust their partner. How can that be? They are stating they dont love and trust their partner to take the risk of marriage.The Church most certainly is right in doing so!
I think that there are many things here that you are not considering. Firstly, I advise you to spend one day at home with a baby or two and try to take care of the rest of the house too, before you make any judgments about the “worth” of such work.A few of you keep talking about the “valuable work” that a SAHM does. Sure, it may be tedious, but it is not worth half of the man’s salary (unless he works for min wage in a factory). Workers in China also do a lot of hard labor that benefits the economy. That does not mean that the labor they do is worth $20/hour. A mother only needs to stay at home for the first 2-3years after a child is born. After that, the she could easily fit a part time job in there since the child. A lot of you said that she is at a disadvantage because she was out of work for a few years. To that I say BS. Women have the same opportunities in life.
I’m the one who said this. “Poverty” does not mean “I am in college and I don’t have a car” or “I have to pay for my own college”. Volunteer at a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen and you will see what poverty looks like. Your parents do not have the responsibility to buy you a car or pay for your college. You are an adult now and need to learn how to take care of yourself. Otherwise you will find out quickly what true poverty is. Does money provide security? Sure. Having money isn’t bad, but expecting handouts from your parents or anyone else is.Another person said that I should not be complaining about the money aspect of the divorce because “plenty of people can’t afford a car or to pay for school”. That person has yet to see how little my family has. I have spent time with my friends and their houses. When I saw what their lives were like, it took my breath away. The worst part is not being in poverty, but knowing that at one time you had access to resources that would have made it better. Did any of you consider that many people pursue money instead of God’s blessing because money brings comfort that God’s blessings do not?
Good researchers would never use only one indicator of marital/relationship success. Longevity can be one, but there are also satisfaction scales, happiness scales, items about expectations and stress, and so on. Studies can have flaws, but if researchers repeatedly get the same results, there’s something to it.A Jewish psychology professor on here asked if I’m a psych major. Yes, I am. I will take your advice. I’ll do some research and not make any hasty decisions. I still have time to make up my mind. With those studies that you mentioned, there are some questions. I’m guessing in the studies, the operational definition for relationship success was how long it lasted? If that’s the case, that’s rather flawed because people can still hate each others guts, but stay together longer than if they were cohabitating. On paper, it would appear as if the relationship was more successful when in reality it was just as much of a train wreck. But I could be wrong about the operational definition, so I will check it out.
Are you referring to me?**A SAHM on this forum **said that cohabitation separations would be just as messy, unless I just walk away from it. According to this person leaving “is unfair to children and the parent who has sacrificed more by way of career and income in caring for them.” Lol yah right. The only way I would leave a girl I had a kid with would be if she was bad to me. In that case, she deserves to take the financial hit of a cohabitation breakup. And I would take the kid with me so that she is not so financially burdened that she cannot afford makeup![]()