Is the devil real or a human invention?

[christopher-m]

I’ve heard it said that the best trick the devil can play on human beings is to convince them that he doesn’t exist. That way, he can work his insidious trickery unhindered. I personally believe that the devil is very real indeed, especially as taught by the Catholic Church! However, what can one say to someone who doesn’t believe in the devil’s existence? I don’t overemphasize or dwell on the matter too much, because that’s spiritually unhelathy, but I think to deny the evil one’s existence is even worse.
Wishing the Peace of Christ to all!

 

[geezerbob]

Scripture and the Church says he’s real and that’s good enough for me.

 

[contemplative]

Read the Gospels. Jesus casts out demons.

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

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[deb1]

christopher-m:

I’ve heard it said that the best trick the devil can play on human beings is to convince them that he doesn’t exist. That way, he can work his insidious trickery unhindered. I personally believe that the devil is very real indeed, especially as taught by the Catholic Church! However, what can one say to someone who doesn’t believe in the devil’s existence? I don’t overemphasize or dwell on the matter too much, because that’s spiritually unhelathy, but I think to deny the evil one’s existence is even worse.
Wishing the Peace of Christ to all!

I don’t know how to prove to someone that the devil himself exists-although I believe that he does. I think that it is easy to prove evil exists though. All you have to do is bring up the names of several serial killers and the existence of the holocaust.

 

[trailblazer]

Jesus believed in the devil, so does the Church – thats enough for me! So, why is anyone questioning it???

Love, Bob

 

[puzzleannie]

christopher-m:

However, what can one say to someone who doesn’t believe in the devil’s existence? !

hmmm, ways to demonstrate the existence of the devil:
watch MSM regularly and note the evil and violence in the world
raise teenagers and help them grapple with the evil they are confronted with daily on all sides
work for the government and/or run for public office and see the compromises with the truth one is forced to deal with constantly
dabble in the occult and deal with the very predictable results
view the Passion of the Christ or read the gospel accounts of the Passion and mediate upon it, and confront one’s own personal sinfulness
study history

In all these examples, look for the Big Lie, which is the hallmark of the devil
any or all of these will convince you there is a personal force constantly tempting human kind towards all manner of evil and self-destruction

 

[savone]

You tell me. For example, the Civil War, Spanish-American War, WWI, WWII, Korean War, the “Cold War” (from a purely financial view, all the billions that went for weapons that now even more billions are being spent to destroy), Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Irag. What’s keeping us at each other’s “throats”?

Diabolical. Beyond human invention, but, sadly, not beyond human cooperation.

 

[Monarchy]

I vote for human invention!

 

[trailblazer]

Monarchy:

I vote for human invention!

A disciple of Christ would say, “If Jesus says it, I accept.”

A Catholic would add to that, knowing that the Church has preserved Christ’s truth throughout its 2000 years. Thus, if the Church says it (and the Church cannot contradict Christ), I accept! If we look in the Catechism, we can see that the Church upholds the tradition of Satan.

Are you a Christian or a Catholic Christian? What exactly is your faith that enables you question such tradition?

Bob

 

[Monarchy]

trailblazer:

A disciple of Christ would say, “If Jesus says it, I accept.”

A Catholic would add to that, knowing that the Church has preserved Christ’s truth throughout its 2000 years. Thus, if the Church says it (and the Church cannot contradict Christ), I accept! If we look in the Catechism, we can see that the Church upholds the tradition of Satan.

Are you a Christian or a Catholic Christian? What exactly is your faith that enables you question such tradition?

Bob

atheist

 

[trailblazer]

Well…if you are an atheist, you do not believe God or Satan exist. But, whether or not you believe in such reality, that does not negate that this reality exist. Rather, it just says that you are blind to it.

I remember a story about Padre Pio. A man who had been confessing to him, came to tell Padre Pio that he would no longer be coming to confession because he no longer believed in Hell. Padre Pio told the man something to the affect that…you’ll believe when you go their.

If you are atheist, am I right in assuming that the reason you are on this forum is that you are seeking God or God’s existance? There are many people who may be able to help you. Are you willing to admit that there is at least a possibility that God exist?

Love & peace,
Bob

 

[Monarchy]

trailblazer:

Well…if you are an atheist, you do not believe God or Satan exist. But, whether or not you believe in such reality, that does not negate that this reality exist. Rather, it just says that you are blind to it.

You claim that heavan and hell exist. Please prove it. If you can’t I’m perfectly within logic to dismiss your claims.

I remember a story about Padre Pio. A man who had been confessing to him, came to tell Padre Pio that he would no longer be coming to confession because he no longer believed in Hell. Padre Pio told the man something to the affect that…you’ll believe when you go their.

I love how christians can in one breath say how loving god is, and in the next try to scare people saying that god will torture unbelievers in Hell. Plain and simple, Eternal torture is not the act of a loving diety.

If you are atheist, am I right in assuming that the reason you are on this forum is that you are seeking God or God’s existance?

No, it is to properly show what Atheism is and is not to what people make up about it on this board.

There are many people who may be able to help you. Are you willing to admit that there is at least a possibility that God exist?

Is it possible that God exists? Yes. It is also possible that Unicorns, Griffins, etc exist. Do you believe in them? Why not?
I have no belief in god because there is NO proof that he exists.

 

[Neithan]

Monarchy:

You claim that heavan and hell exist. Please prove it. If you can’t I’m perfectly within logic to dismiss your claims.

Yes, you are perfectly within logic to dismiss their existence. It is also perfectly within logic to dismiss anythings existence. Depends on what you are basing your logic.

I love how christians can in one breath say how loving god is, and in the next try to scare people saying that god will torture unbelievers in Hell. Plain and simple, Eternal torture is not the act of a loving diety.

God is Love. God is Justice. These two do not contradict.
God does not torture unbelievers in Hell. Hell is separation from God. God does not force people to be in his presence (Heaven) therefore, people send themselves, and torture themselves, in choosing hell (to be away from God forever).

No, it is to properly show what Atheism is and is not to what people make up about it on this board.

There are far more misconceptions about Christianity; so I hope this is an educational–as much, if not more than, an instructional–experience for you.

Is it possible that God exists? Yes. It is also possible that Unicorns, Griffins, etc exist. Do you believe in them? Why not?
I have no belief in god because there is NO proof that he exists.

Again, what kind of proof? There is just as much (I would say far more) proof that God does exist than if he didn’t–again, it depends on what you are basing your judgements. Unicorns and Griffins do not exist in the Christian view of the Universe because they are physical beings. Physical beings must, by nature, be observable. No one has physically observed a Unicorn or a Griffin. Therefore, we conclude that they are imaginary. God, angels, demons…are not physical beings. They are not physically observable. They are knowable indirectly through intellectual means (not by our 5 senses).

christopher-m:
what can one say to someone who doesn’t believe in the devil’s existence?

I think one of the most profound proofs of Satan’s existence is in the objectivity of evil. There are things in this world which virtually *everyone *will recognize as ‘evil’ and yet people still do them. Satan’s involvement can be seen most clearly in human remorse. When a violent criminal doesn’t understand why he is compelled to murder, even though he knows it is absolutely wrong, or when a pedophile hates himself because of the horrible things he has done (and still wants to do!)… when people are overcome with regret for their own actions–actions which at the time seemed good for them to do through some strange twisted mental process–this is seeing Satan in his work.

There is evil that exists outside of anyone’s mind and operates on all of us… drawing us to sin against our better judgment. The conflict between our ‘id’ and our ‘superego’ so to speak, demonstrates Original Sin, but the damage which it causes, and the persistent, repeated violations of our reason through ‘temptation’, resulting in intense remorse which is still not enough to curb the act which caused it… that is the devil.

 

[Nan_S]

Monarchy:

I love how christians can in one breath say how loving god is, and in the next try to scare people saying that god will torture unbelievers in Hell. Plain and simple, Eternal torture is not the act of a loving diety.

Your image of “hell” is only partially in line with ours. I know you don’t care about what the Church teaches, but before you criticize us it would help for both sides to be using the same playbook. Here’s how Catholics define “hell”:

Catechism of the Catholic Church 1033 … To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1035 … The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end.

Monarchy:

Is it possible that God exists? Yes. It is also possible that Unicorns, Griffins, etc exist. Do you believe in them? Why not? I have no belief in god because there is NO proof that he exists.

And I have no proof that you exist. You could just be the controversial internet alter-ego of a quiet housewife.

Let’s try this from a different angle. You’ve acknowledged the possibility that God exists, but then deny it because you have not seen convincing proof. How would you go about proving to me that God DOES NOT exist?

 

[masterjedi747]

Monarchy:

I have no belief in god because there is NO proof that he exists.

On the contrary. Everything that exists is proof that He exists. There’s just so much of it all around you in your everyday life that you dismiss it as “not being sufficient evidence”.

 

[Monarchy]

masterjedi747:

On the contrary. Everything that exists is proof that He exists. There’s just so much of it all around you in your everyday life that you dismiss it as “not being sufficient evidence”.

The onlt thing it proves is the existance of everything that exists. It does not prove the existance of god.

 

[Shoshana]

If logic doesn’t help you, would me telling you that I have heard the devil speak, smelled him, felt his unbelievable presence, been bitten by him and thrown around by him, found out that he is boring for he repeats himself again and again, that he knew things that the victim could never have known, that he had strength that was beyond the capacity of a woman, that his words are dead even if he threatens continuously, that he is powerless aginst the Cross and the Blessed Virgin???

Would it help to tell you that he would send messages that was coded and I had to break the code and it was a warning to the brother of the priest?

Is there anything elese you would like to know???

 

[jjwilkman]

Shoshana:

If logic doesn’t help you, would me telling you that I have heard the devil speak, smelled him, felt his unbelievable presence, been bitten by him and thrown around by him, found out that he is boring for he repeats himself again and again, that he knew things that the victim could never have known, that he had strength that was beyond the capacity of a woman, that his words are dead even if he threatens continuously, that he is powerless aginst the Cross and the Blessed Virgin???

Would it help to tell you that he would send messages that was coded and I had to break the code and it was a warning to the brother of the priest?

Is there anything elese you would like to know???

i have to give a clap of the hands. i don’t know yt\et how to do smilies or pictures

 

[deb1]

This is turning into an interesting discussion. I am curious how Atheists explain the existence of Good and evil?

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friends

He is no myth, he is no boogey-man, he is not a thing of the imagination, he is not a cartoon figure with a fork-tail . He, satan is real.

In short and in direct experience of him… The reality of him is so stark, so awful that to meet with him is abhorrent, seemingly beautiful; full of awfulness but so very empty, a nothingness, a mockery of all that is true and good, that to encounter him is to witness a ridicule of truth. I have encountered him and in doing so was struck to the core of the awfullness of him. I never encountered such a ‘nothing’, such an awful feeling of abject nothingness. The feeling of him is dreadful. He is a tormentor of the ‘self’ , he builds it up and then he accuses it and torments it.

He is real and the awful thing is if you believe satan himself is a nothingness , if you believe that satan does not exist, is not a reality, then you stand every chance of meeting with the reality of him and possibly for all eternity.

We must, in knowing that satan exists, laugh at him as he is as nothing and those in Christ Jesus need have no fear of him, rather fear the Lord who gave you life and can take life.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa