Is the silent treatment acceptable? (Womanly opinions welcome...I can't really read women's minds)

[Belgarion]

All of it; the parents are being overly and unnecessarily stubborn, and the silent treatment is immature.

Well, I’ll agree with the first point. However, my “Silent treatment” is that in name only. The general definition of silent treatment is not talking even when they talk to you. THAT is immature. But showing that you’re done with the BS by just ignoring, that’s different.
If a friend of mine is a jerk to me, (Its happened several times) I just say “I don’t need this crud.” I just walk away. And every time I’ve done that, I’ve gotten an apology. And that friend is a lot better to me, and its as if nothing happened.

You haven’t even dated (courted) this girl; therefore you may know what love is in the abstract, but you don’t really know her, given the roadblocks. Until you do (if you are ever able to) you really can’t say that you love her.

I have known her for over two years. We talk, but unfortunately we don’t talk about our relationship and all that romantic stuff. Her personality, as well as her interests and religious devotion is what I love. I agree, that I’ll not be SURE until we have a deeper relationship. But I know what I know, and love it. No one is perfect, and I know she’ll have stuff to work on, just as I do.

She needs to point out to them, then, that “Victorian” girls were expected to marry by her age. This whole part of things is perfectly silly, not to mention absurdly controlling.

that’d be SO funny to tell them!
But then they’d bring up another point saying that they’d be married to a man 15 years her senior.

All the more reason for her to get a backbone, if she is at all interested in you.

I agree with you there.

Well, then, if she won’t do anything about it, you are clearly barking up the wrong tree.

which is why I am going to do what I need to do by talking to her. Or something like that (letter)

The “silent treatment” is childish and gets you nowhere. Speak your mind, get it out in the open, tell her how you feel, put the ball in her court, and then deal with the consequences. You must accept that the answer may be “no”, however.

In the immortal words of Leopold, “You want the ball to be in YOUR court!” (or something to that effect)
That’s exactly what I’m doing.

“Faint heart never won fair lady.” Get on with it, then move on, if need be.

hey! I’v got a strong heart! …literally…

 

[Belgarion]

So this woman isn’t furthering her education, she is allowed to have her own business but not allowed to talk to a guy. Her sisters have to act like go-betweens. Her dad and mom have final say over who she talks to. You have subjects deeper than the weather you’d like to discuss with her but can’t, but you think you know her deeply without having discussed them. But you say you want some honesty from her because you haven’t gotten it.

I’ll make a few corrections.
She’s not allowed to talk to a guy alone who she LIKES without some sort of chaperone. So that’s good news AND bad news for me
Her sisters DON’T act like go-betweens.
Her dad and mom can’t really stop her, but they can sure convince her.
I discuss PLENTY more than the weather. Heck, we even talked about baby names!
But we don’t talk about, for example, our future together.
The honesty I want has to do with the way they treat me.
I’m a straight-shooter. I appreciate openess and honesty.
When someone plays games, I don’t like it. Why can’t they just say “You know what…I don’t like this thing you did…”
But no! There’s just dancing around (On her parent’s account at the very least) and instead of talking about it, they just “cut me off” and take it away. Its a hug for Pete’s sake!

Run, don’t walk to the nearest exit.

Unless you want these people for in-laws. Deciding what is proper for your children, while your wife acceeds to their wishes because she never learned to make a decision of her own.

Do you want them involved as a committee in every decision of your life? They will be. I’m all for close families. I came from one. But THIS is absurd!

No kidding. But I don’t see that being a problem with the older married kids.
However, I wouldn’t allow it to happen, and that would be something that I’d have to discuss with her.
But these people have a good understanding of Scripture, and that means they’ll understand that the husband is the head of the household, NOT the FIL/Father.

Or the other extreme may be happy… she finally gets out from under daddy’s heavy thumb and goes berserk in a few years and rebels against all authority, even your oddly ancient courting outlook. Victorian rules… in the 21st century. It’s a bit affected.

LOL
Berserk! She IS a little weird… (which is part of why I feel the way I do.)
Though by their standards, going berserk would be my idea of dating :lol:

They say the first divorce is really divorcing one of the parents. Do you want to be the “father” she is divorcing someday because she never went through the necessary process of individuation? Her father will hand her over like a piece of property to you someday?

Pfft, I don’t think its that extreme. But I understand her need to individuate from her father.
(I watched “Home improvement”, too!

And you are waiting for some honesty from her about her feelings?

Yes.

This is all so dramatic! DRAAAAAMMMMAAAAAAA! No, it’s not romantic. Leave her with her Victorian telenovela for someone else. Seriously.

Yes, its dramatic. However, I think you’re wrong about the romance. Many people have compared it to Romeo and Juliet. They think my devotion to her is romantic.

And no, you might think you know what love is, but until you’ve had the real thing returned to you full force and you’d be willing to die for someone, you don’t know. You don’t even know if you want to continue being ignored by her.

Who said she ignored me?
She didn’t.

Anyways, I believe their is a difference between the feeling of love, the dedication to love, and the FEELING of reciprocated love.
I understand that having the feelings returned is very important. I know that she cares for me. That’s not the issue here.

Please, you have much to offer a normal woman who doesn’t have wierd daddy issues.

Sure, but i don’t like normal. I LOVE weird. I just don’t like the daddy issues. And I’d have no respect for myself if I didn’t do everything I can to figure this out. Walking away isn’t fair to her.

Go find it.

it?

 

[chevalier]

Yeah, that’s what I mean. What else can I do? She’s important to me, and its seems that its like I’m not. And if one of them wants to talk to me about it, I’ll be fine with that.

Understandably. But this “talk to me if you want to fix it” component is precisely the passive aggressive part.

I don’t force hugs. Its not like she said “No” and hugged her anyways.
And when I hugged her after she got back from L.A., it was no different than hugging any other girl when I missed them. Sure, this had a different emotion behind it, but its nothing wrong.

That was not my point. My point was to avoid a claiming attitude. Don’t focus on getting those hugs. In other words, don’t allow it to turn into any sort of obsession. What matters is the girl, not the hugs.

And I’ve been working as hard as I can towards being ready for marriage. I
I just don’t know what else to do. What you’re saying is to move on and occupy myself with something constructive. Well, I’ve been doing that! But for me, the path to marriage is very important to me. I’m not like my friends who want to “Go out, see the world” before they get married.

Perhaps do see the world? I’m not saying other women, but you’re 20 too, right? Only just finished being a teenager. You could see some world before settling down as a family father.

She’s 20, actually.

I’d have gone freaking nuts if my parents tried to tell me if I can hug a girl or not when I was 20.

Which makes it worse, I know.

Yes, a mentally healthy individual should not be under such a level of control. It’s like ten times worse than the army.

But its not the thrill of the hunt that I like. Heck, I would much rather be with her! I am DEFINITELY not that type of guy who just enjoys the chase. Ugh…that’s just stupid.

Enjoying the chase is one thing. Overestimating what you aren’t getting is another.

trust me, when I first started to have feelings for her, I explored it logically. I used my brain and my heart in tandem.

Everyone says that. I was older than you when I said that and was wrong.

Not to be weird…but that’s like asking me to walk away from a 1967 Shelby GT-500 Mustang just because negotiating with the owner is difficult.

Tough luck. Dollars don’t grow on trees, either.

The one thing I’m not happy with is her inability to at least TRY to speak honestly with me about this.

A strong reflex of obedience unless there’s more to it. But at this point I would be worried about her ability to live an adult life if she’s practically manually controlled by the father like that.

Should I just give her a letter, and walk?

You’ll do what you want anyway. I would tell her father I found his behaviour unacceptable and harmful to the girl herself and I could not abide that. Then I’d drop contact with him and move on. If he will prevent her from contacting you and she will abide, well, there are some things we have no control over.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

it = the future you deserve.

But when you are fascinated by fire, don’t complain when you get burned. Fire = hot.

From an older long-term point of view, this does NOT have “happy ending” written all over it.

What it does have written all over it is the “early days” of courtship and her relationship with her family that you would have to describe in anguished detail for a tribunal after your failed marriage hits the skids.

So print all this stuff out and if you are lucky enough to win this “prize” someday, you might need this to refresh your memory.

No, I’m not against love, though that may seem to be what comes from my posts, but you, young man, seem to have an obsession with the “challenge” here. You’re fascinated by the whole drama and how “romantic” you look to the world. Makes a great story. Sometimes the “best stories” make the most painful lives.

You’re too busy worrying about being fair to her, but she’s not being fair to you. She is legally an adult. She can vote, drive a car (we hope) and do lots of things without permission. There is a far difference between respecting parents with normal boundaries and slavishly adhering to a father who is that controlling that she can’t talk to someone she actually likes. You want someone who allows her father to jerk you around. That portends bad things. It’s not like you have done anything morally objectionable other than find his daughter attractive. I don’t care how well they know scripture. Satan can quote scripture better than anyone on this forum. That doesn’t make him right or willing to follow morality.

Romeo and Juliet was so romantic. They also ended rather badly.

 

[chevalier]

Overall, go away from there. That’s a nuthouse. Her father has problems, she has problems, even you are beginning to show problems - I can sense some slight indoctrination in you, which shows in how vehemently you oppose some arguments which seem to hit home and strike a sensitive chord.

You need your sanity. You don’t need people playing games with your head, not only your heart. You don’t need a wife who’s manually driven by her father even if you succeed. That’s a lose-lose situation for you, not a win-win.

The only “win” here is if she breaks out of that control and decides to see you regardless of her father. But too much is too much.

 

[Belgarion]

Understandably. But this “talk to me if you want to fix it” component is precisely the passive aggressive part.

Oh darn. Well I guess i’m passive aggressive.

That was not my point. My point was to avoid a claiming attitude. Don’t focus on getting those hugs. In other words, don’t allow it to turn into any sort of obsession. What matters is the girl, not the hugs.

True, but as I said, its the honesty, or lack thereof, that is important to me.

Perhaps do see the world? I’m not saying other women, but you’re 20 too, right? Only just finished being a teenager. You could see some world before settling down as a family father.

Nope, I don’t care to see the world. And I’m ALMOST 20…the 1st is my birthday.

I’d have gone freaking nuts if my parents tried to tell me if I can hug a girl or not when I was 20.

Exactly my condition. I’ve gone insane.

Yes, a mentally healthy individual should not be under such a level of control. It’s like ten times worse than the army.

LOL
well at least she’d have a future in the military if she wanted!

Enjoying the chase is one thing. Overestimating what you aren’t getting is another.

Wait…what?

Everyone says that. I was older than you when I said that and was wrong.

Yeah, its definitely overused. But its true in this case.
I’ve been through way too much to ignore the logical reasons for my feelings. Before, I’d like a girl and feel strong emotions for her because she was nice and we had some common interests. AND if she liked something, I immediately liked it more than I really did.
I don’t have to do that with her.

Tough luck. Dollars don’t grow on trees, either.

NEVER ASK ME TO WALK AWAY FROM TAHT CAR!!

A strong reflex of obedience unless there’s more to it. But at this point I would be worried about her ability to live an adult life if she’s practically manually controlled by the father like that.

Nah, she can be pretty independent. she has her own business, separate from her parents’ business. And they actually TEACH them to be more independent (like make their own darn phone calls! lol) according to HER. (not her parents)
so I think this is largely a romantic issue.

You’ll do what you want anyway. I would tell her father I found his behaviour unacceptable and harmful to the girl herself and I could not abide that. Then I’d drop contact with him and move on. If he will prevent her from contacting you and she will abide, well, there are some things we have no control over.

True. That’s most likely the kind of course that I’d take. But I’d give her father less of a role and take it to her. Its not his choice.

 

[whatevergirl]

***I agree with chev…to see the world a little…I am not suggesting go out with a lot of girls, but definitely don’t box yourself in right now…to someone who sounds like others have said, to be kind of immature, and unable to make decisions, for whatever those reasons are (parents of otherwise), on her own.

There’s a great big world out there…it’s noble to want to settle down to get married and be a dad…but remember, it has to be with the right person. Not so sure if this is the right girl, frankly. Just my two cents thrown in to the mix.***

 

[Belgarion]

it = the future you deserve.

But when you are fascinated by fire, don’t complain when you get burned. Fire = hot.

From an older long-term point of view, this does NOT have “happy ending” written all over it.

What it does have written all over it is the “early days” of courtship and her relationship with her family that you would have to describe in anguished detail for a tribunal after your failed marriage hits the skids.

So print all this stuff out and if you are lucky enough to win this “prize” someday, you might need this to refresh your memory.

No, I’m not against love, though that may seem to be what comes from my posts, but you, young man, seem to have an obsession with the “challenge” here. You’re fascinated by the whole drama and how “romantic” you look to the world. Makes a great story. Sometimes the “best stories” make the most painful lives.

You’re too busy worrying about being fair to her, but she’s not being fair to you. She is legally an adult. She can vote, drive a car (we hope) and do lots of things without permission. There is a far difference between respecting parents with normal boundaries and slavishly adhering to a father who is that controlling that she can’t talk to someone she actually likes. You want someone who allows her father to jerk you around. That portends bad things. It’s not like you have done anything morally objectionable other than find his daughter attractive. I don’t care how well they know scripture. Satan can quote scripture better than anyone on this forum. That doesn’t make him right or willing to follow morality.

Romeo and Juliet was so romantic. They also ended rather badly.

don’t twist what I said.
When I said that other people thought it was romantic, that’s a fact. I didn’t say that was why I was doing it. And I certainly don’t care to appear romantic. I AM a romantic individual. But I don’t go out of my way to look romantic to other people.

I understand your point, but I’m not giving up YET. If I’m going to give up, its going to be after much prayer, with a clear head, and after I’ve exhuasted every other option.
But you must understand that you don’t know everything about it. I can tell you every little thing, but it would take way more space than this forum would allow.

Overall, go away from there. That’s a nuthouse. Her father has problems, she has problems, even you are beginning to show problems - I can sense some slight indoctrination in you, which shows in how vehemently you oppose some arguments which seem to hit home and strike a sensitive chord.

Indoctrination? LOL
No, I don’t care for their methods. In fact, I have had to go to confession because of the anger I’ve felt at one point, recently, for these methods.
I’ve spoken out against this BS from the start, and I think all I have to do now is speak out to THEM. But only after they get the message, and only after I have consulted GOD.

You need your sanity.

Do I?

You don’t need people playing games with your head, not only your heart. You don’t need a wife who’s manually driven by her father even if you succeed. That’s a lose-lose situation for you, not a win-win.

No, its not.
Well, sure it IS if I were just sitting around and doing nothing about it. If I left it alone, I either waste my time, or end up with a woman who can’t function without her dad.
But I’m not going to just sit around.
I’m going to talk to her, or give her a letter.
Either she goes along with me (Which would be a victory) or she doesn’t and I stop wasting my time (Which is a victory in the long run, too)

The only “win” here is if she breaks out of that control and decides to see you regardless of her father. But too much is too much.

Aye. But I wouldn’t underestimate her if I were you.

 

[GreenGirl]

What do you want to happen in your relationship with this girl right now? If all of your hopes came true tomorrow where would you be with her? You said you are not ready for marriage financially, that is understandable. Do you want to be able to “date” her? Do you just want a couple of hugs every now and then? Figure out exactly where you want to go with her and TALK to her about it. You are both adults, plenty old enough to act and communicate in a clear, open, and mature manner. It is one thing to be respectful of her father, you’ve both done that for that past two years-but it is another to allow him to completely control her life and any hope of a relationship.
You say you love this girl but how do you know if you have never even discussed your true feelings with her? Love is beautiful, wonderful, special and sacred but it is also challenging. It is not just a feeling or an emotion or romantic notion. It requires the full committment of two mature, independent, responsible, honest adults who want to work together to help each other become better people. Is she to that point where she is able to do and be those things? Are you? Talk to her, figure it out and move forward with your life with or without her.

 

[Contarini]

Silent treatment is passive aggressive behaviour. But I would see this example like a war.

That’s a really juvenile way to look at it. The girl is not Belgarion’s enemy. That’s how ten-year-olds think about the opposite sex (I like you, so I’ll hit you and run away giggling like a Sioux counting coup–except that I imagine the Sioux wouldn’t giggle).

Edwin

 

[Belgarion]

***I agree with chev…to see the world a little…I am not suggesting go out with a lot of girls, but definitely don’t box yourself in right now…to someone who sounds like others have said, to be kind of immature, and unable to make decisions, for whatever those reasons are (parents of otherwise), on her own.

There’s a great big world out there…it’s noble to want to settle down to get married and be a dad…but remember, it has to be with the right person. Not so sure if this is the right girl, frankly. Just my two cents thrown in to the mix.***

I just have no interest in it…I mean, what is the point of going to see the world? An even better question: What is the point of seeing the world alone?

I have to figure out if she’s the right one or not, don’t I?
“Nothing good comes without sacrifice.”

I don’t really like hearing that saying, especially when I’ve already sacrificed so much.
But it at least motivates me a little more to better myself in general.

GreenGirl:

What do you want to happen in your relationship with this girl right now? If all of your hopes came true tomorrow where would you be with her? You said you are not ready for marriage financially, that is understandable. Do you want to be able to “date” her? Do you just want a couple of hugs every now and then? Figure out exactly where you want to go with her and TALK to her about it. You are both adults, plenty old enough to act and communicate in a clear, open, and mature manner. It is one thing to be respectful of her father, you’ve both done that for that past two years-but it is another to allow him to completely control her life and any hope of a relationship.

Exactly.
Well, I’d want to be able to actually DATE her. That’s just it. I want to talk to her about US, and spend time with her alone. I don’t want to feel like I’m always walking on eggshells.

You say you love this girl but how do you know if you have never even discussed your true feelings with her? Love is beautiful, wonderful, special and sacred but it is also challenging. It is not just a feeling or an emotion or romantic notion. It requires the full committment of two mature, independent, responsible, honest adults who want to work together to help each other become better people. Is she to that point where she is able to do and be those things? Are you? Talk to her, figure it out and move forward with your life with or without her.

Yeah, I understand that its not just an emotion. BELIEVE ME, I know. When I feel depressed about it, the conscious choice to love her is what keeps me going. I forget which of the four loves that was…

I know that I need to talk to her, and I’m going to have to overcome my passivity.
See? i’ve got flaws, too.

 

[Contarini]

Apparently its a victorian age thing. No courting until you’re ready to get married.
You don’t have to tell me how ridiculous that is.

I’m not sure about that. There’s something to be said for it, depending on how you define “courting.” The Victorians had a bunch of ways for young people to get to know each other–dancing, etc., (though the stricter religious folks of that era didn’t approve of dancing, of course). Girls “came out” (not in the sense that phrase has today!) at around 16 or so (that’s my impression from the novels I’ve read, anyway), and in some cases got married not too soon after. It was a different culture, with different norms, but I’m not so sure that the basic ideas were bad. It seems to me that calling these folks Victorians is an insult to the Victorians. I appreciate that they are trying to reject a “dating” culture that is really messed up, but I think they’re doing it the wrong way.

Edwin

 

[Jay53]

Have you asked her out on a date yet? Or are you still waiting for the go-ahead from her Dad?

Frankly the whole Dad influence on her is really weird and creepy. At 20 years old she should be able to date/talk to/hug whomever she wishes. Even if she was just worried about her Dad or was just painfully shy she would somehow let you know how she felt: i.e. I really like you and want to date you, but my Dad… etc. - even if she just wrote you a letter to explain it if she was too embarrassed to do it face to face - if she was truly interested she would somehow communicate with you. What she seems to be doing is stringing you along.

I also agree with the other posters that her family dynamic/relationship doesn’t bode well for long term in-law happiness.

And as to the rejecting the hugs thing - that part was really weird - unless her father was hovering over her and she didn’t want to be seen having physical contact with you. But again, at 20 years old that’s really immature/bizarre behavior. (Or if you want to keep with the romantic/Victorian theme, maybe just your hug is enough to make her swoon and lead her to a near occasion of sin so she’s avoiding the temptation. )

 

[Belgarion]

I’m not sure about that. There’s something to be said for it, depending on how you define “courting.” The Victorians had a bunch of ways for young people to get to know each other–dancing, etc., (though the stricter religious folks of that era didn’t approve of dancing, of course). Girls “came out” (not in the sense that phrase has today!) at around 16 or so (that’s my impression from the novels I’ve read, anyway), and in some cases got married not too soon after. It was a different culture, with different norms, but I’m not so sure that the basic ideas were bad. It seems to me that calling these folks Victorians is an insult to the Victorians. I appreciate that they are trying to reject a “dating” culture that is really messed up, but I think they’re doing it the wrong way.

Edwin

LOL!
Yeah I see what you mean! The only bad thing is that I wouldn’t be old enough to marry a girl her age!..I think…lol

 

[chevalier]

Exactly my condition. I’ve gone insane.

I’m not being funny there and the issue isn’t funny either. Even though you won’t admit it, you like the situation on some level and you defend some of its twisted aspects.

LOL
well at least she’d have a future in the military if she wanted!

As a private in a showcase drill unit.

Yeah, its definitely overused. But its true in this case.

Everyone says that in every case.

I’ve been through way too much to ignore the logical reasons for my feelings.

There’s no such thing as a logical reason for a feeling.

Before, I’d like a girl and feel strong emotions for her because she was nice and we had some common interests. AND if she liked something, I immediately liked it more than I really did.
I don’t have to do that with her.

And her dad’s regime is precisely what, in that case? Normally you wouldn’t even look in that kind of direction. These days you play his game, even if on the opposite side.

Nah, she can be pretty independent. she has her own business, separate from her parents’ business.

Nope, sorry. Even if she’s more financially independent than you, which I don’t readily believe even if she has a business in her name, nothing that comes close to her attitude towards her dad’s ideas merits the name of independent.

And they actually TEACH them to be more independent

Cough. Cough. Just listen to yourself.

(like make their own darn phone calls! lol) according to HER. (not her parents)
so I think this is largely a romantic issue.

That’s a control issue. And apart from that, I am beginning to wonder if her dad doesn’t have a better control of her than he has of himself.

True. That’s most likely the kind of course that I’d take. But I’d give her father less of a role and take it to her. Its not his choice.

You’ve lost me on that one.

 

[chevalier]

Indoctrination? LOL

Laughter is a defensive reaction.

No, I don’t care for their methods. In fact, I have had to go to confession because of the anger I’ve felt at one point, recently, for these methods.

And by being angry you didn’t accomplish anything.

I’ve spoken out against this BS from the start, and I think all I have to do now is speak out to THEM. But only after they get the message, and only after I have consulted GOD.

So what are you doing talking to us here?

Do I?

Yes, you do. And while keeping up good humour in face of adversity is commendable, pretending you don’t care but rather you laugh, is another defensive reaction. You need to get out of that sick situation.

Well, sure it IS if I were just sitting around and doing nothing about it. If I left it alone, I either waste my time, or end up with a woman who can’t function without her dad.
But I’m not going to just sit around.

You’re missing the “she” part. No amount of your activity is going to change her if she doesn’t cooperate.

I’m going to talk to her, or give her a letter.

Or wait. And you’ll probably do the latter.

Either she goes along with me (Which would be a victory)

Victory against her father? Victory against her mind?

or she doesn’t and I stop wasting my time (Which is a victory in the long run, too)

Looks like you already know what you could call the kind of thing you’re currently doing. The next step is stopping it.

Aye. But I wouldn’t underestimate her if I were you.

If you were I, you would do exactly what I do.

 

[Belgarion]

I’m not being funny there and the issue isn’t funny either. Even though you won’t admit it, you like the situation on some level and you defend some of its twisted aspects.

I’m sorry for thinking that’s funny. If I enjoy this situation, then I’m really a sick person!

As a private in a showcase drill unit.

Gosh, where has the old Chev humor gone?!?1

Everyone says that in every case.

Well, I don’t care about every case. I’m a unique individual, not the entire world.

There’s no such thing as a logical reason for a feeling.

When you’ve always had a list of things that you want in a wife INCLUDING personality traits, and she has all of them…I’d say examining and confirming those is an act of logic.

And her dad’s regime is precisely what, in that case? Normally you wouldn’t even look in that kind of direction. These days you play his game, even if on the opposite side.

I’m tired of playing his game. Which is why I’m not. I’m not bringing this to him, and I’m not going along with him.

Nope, sorry. Even if she’s more financially independent than you, which I don’t readily believe even if she has a business in her name, nothing that comes close to her attitude towards her dad’s ideas merits the name of independent.

Yeah I suppose you may have a point there.

Cough. Cough. Just listen to yourself.

LOL, you’re saying what they’re teaching isn’t really independence? Well, I’ve been briefed on the particulars, actually. They basically teach them how to function in the real world. In some of those things they are actually miles ahead of me.

That’s a control issue. And apart from that, I am beginning to wonder if her dad doesn’t have a better control of her than he has of himself.

heh, maybe he doesn’t.

You’ve lost me on that one.

I mean to say that just simply going to him isn’t going to do anything. My previous experiences with him has proven that. I need to go to her, not him.

Laughter is a defensive reaction.

Or an attempt to keep this light-hearted. For my sake at the very least.

And by being angry you didn’t accomplish anything.

Nope, that’s actually what my priest told me. Its like shooting a bullet and taking it, too.

So what are you doing talking to us here?
Because I need to bounce ideas off of people. I need all the options that I can get, really.
Maybe I need some perspective on her point of view…but I’m not sure if anyone can offer that. Save her, of course. Which is why I have to talk to her

Yes, you do. And while keeping up good humour in face of adversity is commendable, pretending you don’t care but rather you laugh, is another defensive reaction. You need to get out of that sick situation.

Yeah, but let me handle stuff first.
My laughter, as I said, is merely trying to keep this light.

You’re missing the “she” part. No amount of your activity is going to change her if she doesn’t cooperate.

True. Very true. Which is why she needs to be spoken to.

Or wait. And you’ll probably do the latter.

Wait? Or the letter? lol
Because the letter is actually better for this situation. Simply because I won’t be able to relate so much to her in a heartfelt manner if we’re given no time alone.

Victory against her father? Victory against her mind?

I suppose victory wouldn’t be accurate. More like, its good for me.

Looks like you already know what you could call the kind of thing you’re currently doing. The next step is stopping it.

So you’re saying that I am already starting to end this waste of time?
I am a very introspective and thoughful person. I’m not going to do something that huge without massive consideration.

If you were I, you would do exactly what I do.

…Wait…what?

 

[sheilathebard]

Oh, my goodness. All the back and forth. I’m not sure if this is a request for advice, or if someone’s just trying to defend himself here … but I’ll just give my 2 cents, based on the little I’ve gathered of the situation from scanning a few threads:

1. Yes, the silent treatment is wrong. Sorry. It is. Why? Because it doesn’t mean anything – it’s hurtful while failing to communicate anything. You think she “should be able to understand” this or that out of your silence. The fact is, silence can be taken a million ways – particularly when one of the parties is male and the other is female. My fiance and I gave up the silent treatment when we realized we would both end up saying the same thing afterwards: “I can’t read minds, you’re going to have to speak with words.” Only words are really going to cut it here. It’s a complicated situation and she doesn’t seem to have much opportunity to know what’s really going on in your head.
2. I would differ with most people, in that I wouldn’t blame her for the huge control her family is putting on her. I know at least one person in a similar situation, and these people can be victims – trained from an early age that “you don’t cross Dad.” Of course I don’t know her situation, but I don’t think you should be angry at her because her father rules her life. That may or may not be her fault. However, whether it’s her fault or not, you do have a disordered situation on your hands, and you might not be able to rescue her from it. Maybe no one can. Be aware of that.
3. You need to tell her what is going on with you, and make it clear that, while you like her a lot, you don’t want to play the kind of game her family is playing. Ask her to tell you once and for all whether she wants you to stick around, and if so, how she is going to change things so that things are more honest and less like a game of hide-and-seek. You can’t talk to her alone – can you write a letter? You say she has a business – could you send it to her business address? A letter is a lot less threatening than a living, breathing man, both to her and to her family. Email is fine too. But you’ve got to communicate with this woman, or you have nothing (and you never will have anything) to go on.

I doubt I’ll be back on this forum for awhile – I’m more of a once-a-week reader these days – but I wish you all the best at your attempt. I had to deal with putting off a relationship that we both wanted due to his parents’ objections, but it did work out in the end. You never know. But as long as you’re dodging and wondering in the dark, you’re not making any progress. We know the situation’s messed up – what are you going to do to change or work around it? Communication is step 1, and then you can see where to go from there based on what she says.

 

[catherinette]

When you’ve always had a list of things that you want in a wife INCLUDING personality traits, and she has all of them…I’d say examining and confirming those is an act of logic.

Is one of those personality traits you are looking for obedience?
Hahaha. Ok, sorry that was a cheap shot. I’ll be good.

I can see you are quite frustrated by the situation, so I pray you have some peace of mind! I will offer you my womanly opinion… first, about the silent treatment: women can’t read men’s minds either! I know, shocking. So you really do need to talk to her (or write her a romantic letter if you must , but it’s probably better if you talk in person) about the situation, so you both don’t end up even more upset.

I didn’t read your previous threads, so I don’t know all you’ve written about the situation, but I have to ask this anyway: are you sure that she reciprocates the feelings you have for her? My naive reading of the situation was that, obviously, this girl does not have a lot of experience when it comes to dating-- perhaps she isn’t interested, or at least, isn’t as intensely interested as you seem to be, but she didn’t know how to tell you, and instead is letting her daddy do the dirty work. I’m not saying I’m at all right here, but she could have been avoiding your hugs because she didn’t want to appear to be encouraging you in feelings she did not return. Anyway, like everyone else said, you do need to talk to her and get this sorted out, because you are obviously not just going to let it go.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Belgarion, in answer to your question…sorry I didn’t put your post with this one…you’ll have to scroll up…

I’d rather see the world alone, than with the wrong person. Just make sure that she is the right person, before you place your eggs into one basket.

I will be praying for you – if nothing else, that you find peace of mind throughout this. *