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CatQuilt
Guest
I am so sorry for what happened to you. I would, however, like to point out that Kinsey’s book was published in 1948. He was the father of a truly evil revolution.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
don’t blame the messenger
Kinsey just wrote a book
as far the scandel being a money making scam…there may be some unscrupulous people jumping on the bandwagon.
with decades in some cases having gone by it is alwyas difficult to tell
BUT IMHO even if only one person was truely a victim the damage done to that person for being a victim in the first place and then being told thery are liars when they finaly come forward is far worse than having may “me too” cases
Kinsey just wrote a book
as far the scandel being a money making scam…there may be some unscrupulous people jumping on the bandwagon.
with decades in some cases having gone by it is alwyas difficult to tell
BUT IMHO even if only one person was truely a victim the damage done to that person for being a victim in the first place and then being told thery are liars when they finaly come forward is far worse than having may “me too” cases
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midwest_mom
Guest
Lorarose, I am so sorry for your pain. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to live with that. I know that the courts award monetary awards because in most cases that’s all they can do. What would you like to see done, if you could choose? I does seem like there hasn’t been much justice.
What would be your suggestions for protecting children today? In our diocese, everyone who enters the school, from the Priest to the delivery people must be fingerprinted. Unless they are a convicted childmolester, I don’t see how this helps. Obviously, the priests who did these things would never have been caught by fingerprinting. We also had a “good touch, bad touch” one day lesson. It seemed to be pretty lame. Any idea’s?
What would be your suggestions for protecting children today? In our diocese, everyone who enters the school, from the Priest to the delivery people must be fingerprinted. Unless they are a convicted childmolester, I don’t see how this helps. Obviously, the priests who did these things would never have been caught by fingerprinting. We also had a “good touch, bad touch” one day lesson. It seemed to be pretty lame. Any idea’s?
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Church_Militant
Guest
I have to agree with this.
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buffalo
Guest
The Church has traditionally followed the idea that a problem should be taken to court as a last resort. It’s first impulse is to privately resolve any issue to avoid scandal.
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penWindow(‘cr/2487.htm’)
Every offense committed against justice and truth entails the duty of reparation, even if its author has been forgiven. When it is impossible publicly to make reparation for a wrong, it must be made secretly. If someone who has suffered harm cannot be directly compensated, he must be given moral satisfaction in the name of charity. This duty of reparation also concerns offenses against another’s reputation. This reparation, moral and sometimes material, must be evaluated in terms of the extent of the damage inflicted. It obliges in conscience.IV. RESPECT FOR THE TRUTH
[2488](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2488.htm’) The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.[2489](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2489.htm’) Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it.283[2492](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2492.htm’) Everyone should observe an appropriate reserve concerning persons’ private lives. Those in charge of communications should maintain a fair balance between the requirements of the common good and respect for individual rights. Interference by the media in the private lives of persons engaged in political or public activity is to be condemned to the extent that it infringes upon their privacy and freedom.
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snowgarden
Guest
Although we live in a lawsuit crazy society where any reason to win a lottery of set-me-up-for-life money is pursued, I don’t believe the scandal is a scam.
As I said in a previous post “I love my Church, but we’ve got to take the knocks from the world for this shameful evil that took place in our churches at the hands of those who held the Eucharist in their hands and those in positions of power that knew about it and did little to nothing about it. Those children, now broken adults, are fighting back sometimes embarrassing us in the media, but hey, I’d rather they be angry and have an outlet then have them suffer the ultimate despair and kill themselves. We can take it. I hate to think of the loss of respect the Bishops and Cardinals have suffered, but they are paying a price for the actions and lack of action of some. They are grown men and should be able to handle it…we the church are suffering for their weakened voices, but in God there is redemption for them and for us. Those who were abused are so in my prayers…I can pray for God’s grace and mercy to help them recover, but even that seems so feeble. God have mercy on their suffering souls.”
As I said in a previous post “I love my Church, but we’ve got to take the knocks from the world for this shameful evil that took place in our churches at the hands of those who held the Eucharist in their hands and those in positions of power that knew about it and did little to nothing about it. Those children, now broken adults, are fighting back sometimes embarrassing us in the media, but hey, I’d rather they be angry and have an outlet then have them suffer the ultimate despair and kill themselves. We can take it. I hate to think of the loss of respect the Bishops and Cardinals have suffered, but they are paying a price for the actions and lack of action of some. They are grown men and should be able to handle it…we the church are suffering for their weakened voices, but in God there is redemption for them and for us. Those who were abused are so in my prayers…I can pray for God’s grace and mercy to help them recover, but even that seems so feeble. God have mercy on their suffering souls.”
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CatQuilt
Guest
Steve Andersen:
Did you even read the link I supplied?
Don’t blame the messenger? :bigyikes:
Did you even read the link I supplied?
“the messenger”…give me a break…
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
No actually
Not before I posted
Sorry.
I see so many knee jerk posts here I reacted in a knee jerk fashion
I can be a jerk sometimes
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Lorarose
Guest
The Church does not have the right to skirt around the laws and protect criminals.
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Lorarose
Guest
Homosexuals should never be allowed into the priesthood.
When complaints begin to pile up at the bishop’s office regarding particular priests - that priest must immediately be removed from contact with children until an investigation is completed.
Depending on the nature of the allegations - a bishop may need to fully cooperate with law enforcement.
If a criminal investigation and/or internal investigation reveal the reports are substantiated the priest should immediately be stripped of his priesthood.
When reports are submitted to a bishop’s office regarding a priest who traveled through his diocese - but is under the authority of another bishop - he must be obligated to pass the report onto that priest’s bishop and be kept informed of the investigation
(this would have applied in my case - but it never happened)
Seminary students need to be taught orthodox catholic doctrine ESPECIALLY in the case of sexuality.
Seminary students need to be carefully screened as to the motivation behind their call to the priesthood.
These are just a few random thoughts - as it’s late and I need to get some zzz’s.
Thank you for your kind words.
My case was out of the ordinary.
I was the victim of a true pedophile…a man who was assaulting children ages 5 to 12. Prepubescent boys and girls.
Like I mentioned - mine was a brief, one time struggle - and I was rescued from him before he could do too much damage.
Friends of mine were not so lucky.
At the same church we had another priest who fit the standard profile you see on the news. He was assaulting teenage boys.
This is why I think men with homosexual tendencies need to be screened out - this was the trademark of a majority of the cases.
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Lorarose
Guest
The statute of limitations did apply.
Plus…he resided in another country.
If I had to guess - I would guess he is now probably dead.
He was the head of an orphanage…when I reported this to the diocese I requested they keep this in mind.
No one from the diocese ever informed me as to whether anything was done or not.
I know that mine was not the only report.
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misericordie
Guest
And some of these Bishops here in the USA are so afraid of personally being suid, etc. and of the media, that they will find a priest guilty before he is innocent. Especially a certain Cardinal in a major Northeast City of the USA.
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jjwilkman
Guest
i have been sorry to read this. i thought priests. men of our lord woud be a little bit above this. why doesn’t the media investigate this further in the civialian, secular world? it is even much more hidden. i have seen it. girls go to live with other family because the father has abused. it happens all over the world. my sister is dead because she was raped at age 19 by my natural father, i pray to God that he is not. she was engaged to be married to a (how do you say conocido?) friend doesn’t mean the same thing.
any way, this thing about men abusing is much more prevalent than any onw could (or want’s) to belive. i have seen it time and tine again/ this is more ugly. many women tolerate this especially here in mexico.
it is prevalent and evil. it’s not just the catholic church. it is us.
like pogo said, we have met the enemy and he is us…
mothers, protect your daughters. even at the cost of poverty.even at the perdida of your lives. guess what? mothers sometimes say nothing…
any way, this thing about men abusing is much more prevalent than any onw could (or want’s) to belive. i have seen it time and tine again/ this is more ugly. many women tolerate this especially here in mexico.
it is prevalent and evil. it’s not just the catholic church. it is us.
like pogo said, we have met the enemy and he is us…
mothers, protect your daughters. even at the cost of poverty.even at the perdida of your lives. guess what? mothers sometimes say nothing…
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Lonevoice
Guest
Bud Stewart:
Me neither…
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buffalo
Guest
What is the purpose of the statute of limitations?
Why all of a sudden are thses cases appearing? Why didn’t they report it to the authorities at the time it happened?
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buffalo
Guest
That is correct. But the law of the Church is higher than that of civil laws. If two Catholics have an issue they are to go to court as a last resort. They should try to work their problems out with each other.
We don’t think that way anymore. Our first instincts are to sue.
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Lorarose
Guest
Anyone who works with children is obligated to report suspected abuse to the civil authorities.
Actually…it isn’t even up to the person doing the reporting to try and decipher if the allegations are substantiated - that is up to the civil authorities to determine that.
Catholics who think any child may be abused by ANYONE is morally obligated to report it to the police/social services.
As far as the civil cases go…are you asserting that victims of sexual abuse should not be pursuing their attackers in civil courts?
Do you think the Church has done an adequate job in reaching out to these people in reconciliation?
I certainly don’t.
Actually…it isn’t even up to the person doing the reporting to try and decipher if the allegations are substantiated - that is up to the civil authorities to determine that.
Catholics who think any child may be abused by ANYONE is morally obligated to report it to the police/social services.
As far as the civil cases go…are you asserting that victims of sexual abuse should not be pursuing their attackers in civil courts?
Do you think the Church has done an adequate job in reaching out to these people in reconciliation?
I certainly don’t.
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buffalo
Guest
I understand the current laws. What I am pointing out is we are again looking back through today’s lens.
- In the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s were they required to report the abuses to civil authorities. Who did parents normally report them to and why?
- How much trust as a society are we to give to civil authorities? Should our laws now read guilty until proven innocent? Why aren’t we acting withing the higher moral law?
- As Catholics we have always tried to settle out of court. Is this a good ideal? If the Priest who molested you had gone to confession, came and visited you, expressed his sorrow and made reparations would you still want money through a civil suit?
- As far as the reaching out question goes - the official Church or the whole Church?
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iserve
Guest
One of the problems I see is the idea that a money award will do anything at all for this situation. On the one hand, like a person back in the thread told the story of one of the “victims” who spent the money and then came back for more, another “victim” here in the Boston area killed himself after getting his money. There is no price tag on either a child’s innocence or the culpability of an organization to monitor the behavior of trusted, supposedly chaste, employees. Handing our money has hurt the situation by forcing the costs onto the backs of faithful people who must make up for the loss by losing their Churches, donated property, etc., while the Church takes its’ sweet time comiong up with policies to handle the situation. Every layperson in the dioceses has had to be checked, re-checked, and re-checked again, but what word has anyone heard about the “new guidelines for priests”? Do you hear the crickets. . . . ? Paying money has not really solved anything except to make it go away as fast as possible, becuase media and society are percieved as money oriented.
I would say that no one should be fooled. Many people are sexually abused by persons who cannot pay or are not caught, the healing comes when punishment fits the crime for the perpetrator, not the organization as a whole. The money awards were obscene and the Church should have offered them without all the litigation and fanfare. Yet, only a handful of the men are in jail. The rest have disppeared, and this is shameful, because it lacks the transparency necessary to really solve the problem.
I would say that no one should be fooled. Many people are sexually abused by persons who cannot pay or are not caught, the healing comes when punishment fits the crime for the perpetrator, not the organization as a whole. The money awards were obscene and the Church should have offered them without all the litigation and fanfare. Yet, only a handful of the men are in jail. The rest have disppeared, and this is shameful, because it lacks the transparency necessary to really solve the problem.
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Lorarose
Guest
[QUOTE1. In the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s were they required to report the abuses to civil authorities. Who did parents normally report them to and why?
[/QUOTE]
AS much as anyone was required to report ANY crime back then.
Sexual assault on a child was a crime back then.
Many parents did not believe their children - they didn’t want to believe the priest could do such a thing.
Many parents first went to the Church - and were discouraged from going to the police- they were assured the Church would handle the matter.
There are a gazillion different scenarios that happened I’m sure.
When we report crimes - they investigate.
As far as I can tell - they are better at this than the Chruch.
Who said ANYTHING about "guilty until proven innocent? Now you are being silly.
When children are in danger they should be protected, plain and simple.
What do you mean we are not acting within the higher moral law?
When priests abuse children - THEY are not acting within the higher moral law!
When we steal - we are expected to confess - but we are also expected to pay back what we stole.
If I had suffered longer term problems such as I see with my friends…depression, drug addiction problems, inability to have a normal sexual relationship…then yes - I probably would have sought damages for the purpose of counseling/rehab/ etc…
I do think there is something to be said for the “punitive” aspects of the law also. It inspires people to prevent the problem from persisting.
As far as priests being willing to confess their crimes?
Ha!!! That is too funny, and that is one of the daggers in the hearts of victims.
We are painted as the liars - the whiners - the ones who are out to hurt the church.
What a crock.
The diocese has my number. The local priest knows my situation.
Silence…absolute and complete silence.
[/QUOTE]
AS much as anyone was required to report ANY crime back then.
Sexual assault on a child was a crime back then.
Many parents did not believe their children - they didn’t want to believe the priest could do such a thing.
Many parents first went to the Church - and were discouraged from going to the police- they were assured the Church would handle the matter.
There are a gazillion different scenarios that happened I’m sure.
We trust the civil authorities to do their jobs.
When we report crimes - they investigate.
As far as I can tell - they are better at this than the Chruch.
Who said ANYTHING about "guilty until proven innocent? Now you are being silly.
When children are in danger they should be protected, plain and simple.
What do you mean we are not acting within the higher moral law?
When priests abuse children - THEY are not acting within the higher moral law!
Our catholic faith also teaches us about penance.
When we steal - we are expected to confess - but we are also expected to pay back what we stole.
If I had suffered longer term problems such as I see with my friends…depression, drug addiction problems, inability to have a normal sexual relationship…then yes - I probably would have sought damages for the purpose of counseling/rehab/ etc…
I do think there is something to be said for the “punitive” aspects of the law also. It inspires people to prevent the problem from persisting.
As far as priests being willing to confess their crimes?
Ha!!! That is too funny, and that is one of the daggers in the hearts of victims.
We are painted as the liars - the whiners - the ones who are out to hurt the church.
What a crock.
Both.
The diocese has my number. The local priest knows my situation.
Silence…absolute and complete silence.
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