Is the so-called "sex abuse scandal" a money-spinning scam?

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Buffalo

I think it is time for you to offer your solution that apparantly does not involve reporting these priests to the civil authorities - nor does it seem to involve holding them accountable in civil court.

The Church has already proven itself inept in dealing with this situation without outside pressure.
 
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Lorarose:
Buffalo

I think it is time for you to offer your solution that apparantly does not involve reporting these priests to the civil authorities - nor does it seem to involve holding them accountable in civil court.

The Church has already proven itself inept in dealing with this situation without outside pressure.
This is a general outline. Feel free to build on it.
  1. Report abuse to Bishop
  2. Bishop Investigates
  3. Bishop takes action if warranted.
  4. Bishop has Priest or offender issue a verbal or written apology and or meet with family
  5. Bishop offers treatment for family and seeks treatment depending on case for offender
  6. Bishop reports to Civil authorites
  7. Family has option to sue Priest personally for his actions as he is personally responsible.
 
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buffalo:
Don’t hold the media in such high esteem. Their only motivation was to bring down the Church.
You just don’t get it. It doesn’t matter what the motives were behind the reporting. What matters is that predators were exposed, hopefully bringing this horror to an end. Who cares if the reporters had an agenda or not. Children were saved because of the reporting.
 
Do you have children?

If this happened to your child - you would call the bishop FIRST and the police LAST?

Why are you relying on the bishop to call the police?
What if he doesn’t?

Do you really trust ALL the bishops to conduct a thorough unbiased investigation?

Since when are bishops now in the business of police work?
Do bishops really have the expertise to interview victims? To do the legwork of interviewing all parties involved?

I saw nothing in your solution concerning the status of the priest…does he get relieved of his priesthood?

Who determines what the victims “need” as far as healing and recovery?
  1. Family has option to sue Priest personally for his actions as he is personally responsible
But where does his money come from?
His money comes from faithful catholics who freely gave this money to the diocese - and the diocese distributed it to the priest.
I thought you were against that.

You seem to automatically exclude the bishop from the realm of responsiblity…yet we have seen bishops who protected these priests knowing exactly what they were doing.
 
The Church, namely the Priests are under fierce attack by satan.

WHY??

Because without Priests their is NO EUCHARIST… and with no Eucharist there is no “and the word was made flesh and the flesh is among you…” …and that’s exactly what satan is striving for.

I’m sure there were abuses and I’m sure there were people who jumped on the band wagon for the cash.

God will sort it out in the end…
Blessings,
Joanie
 
You just don’t get it. It doesn’t matter what the motives were behind the reporting. What matters is that predators were exposed, hopefully bringing this horror to an end. Who cares if the reporters had an agenda or not. Children were saved because of the reporting.
Amen.
No one seems to consider the possiblity that the scandal could be a movement of the Holy Spirit to cleanse the filth from the Church.
This could be a time of purification, and it could be the work of God.
Anyone here consider THAT?
 
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Lorarose:
Do you have children?

If this happened to your child - you would call the bishop FIRST and the police LAST?

Why are you relying on the bishop to call the police?
What if he doesn’t?

Do you really trust ALL the bishops to conduct a thorough unbiased investigation?

Since when are bishops now in the business of police work?
Do bishops really have the expertise to interview victims? To do the legwork of interviewing all parties involved?

I saw nothing in your solution concerning the status of the priest…does he get relieved of his priesthood?

Who determines what the victims “need” as far as healing and recovery?

But where does his money come from?
His money comes from faithful catholics who freely gave this money to the diocese - and the diocese distributed it to the priest.
I thought you were against that.

You seem to automatically exclude the bishop from the realm of responsiblity…yet we have seen bishops who protected these priests knowing exactly what they were doing.
As I said the list is a start and by no means perfect, that is why we need your (name removed by moderator)ut.
  1. Yes, I have children. Yes, I would call the Bishop first.
I would have to be involved in the process to see what unfolds. I would have to get my child to open up to me to get the details to make a decision if the claim was founded. My children have made up some tall tales in the past about those they though hurt them. I could not in good faith assume the worst immediately. Working with children I would not want to be accused and have to defend myself against an unfounded claim. The scandal is bad in that case also.

If the offender is personally liable the trust issue increases as there is less the Bishop has to protect against for the benefit of all the other parishioners.

When I write of personally liability I am including his personal assets, not the parishes or the Dioceses. Perhaps they should have liability insurance that covers something like this, such as medical malpractice.

The needs of the victim should be determined by the family.

The Priest - do we forget that our Catholicism forgives a repentant sinner? Is the Catholic Church a zero tolerance Church against sinners? The Priest/offender has to admit wrondoing in confession and he must make reparations.

I am trying to look at this through a Catholic lens and not make the Church accountable to government which would have far reaching implications.

Help me fill in the blanks here.
 
I am waiting for the Boston Globe to lead a crusade against sex abuse in public schools, which is far worse than it had been in the Church. Considering that maybe about 1% of all priests are guilty of sexual crimes compared to up to 10% of society at large, I would think that there certainly is a media scam underway.
 
  1. Yes, I have children. Yes, I would call the Bishop first.
I would have to be involved in the process to see what unfolds. I would have to get my child to open up to me to get the details to make a decision if the claim was founded. My children have made up some tall tales in the past about those they though hurt them. I could not in good faith assume the worst immediately. Working with children I would not want to be accused and have to defend myself against an unfounded claim. The scandal is bad in that case also.
How many bishops are experts in this area?
If there is any doubt about a child’s claims - the police are better able to figure it out.
Why?
They are ones who can find interrogators who specialize in interviewing children.
They are the ones who can visit the child’s school to see if the child has ever falsely accused teachers or not.
They are also the ones who can work with the doctors if there needs to by physical confirmation of the alleged abuse.
Bishops are out of their league here.
Besides…you are simpy suggesting we go back to the way it was handled before, and that was a recipe for disaster.
The Church is not capable of self-policing.
If the offender is personally liable the trust issue increases as there is less the Bishop has to protect against for the benefit of all the other parishioners.
Let’s be honest. The priests don’t have a pot to pee in.
Where are the funds going to come from to offer counseling/rehab for the victims?
Many cases involved the personal responsibility on the part of the bishop as well.
Are you suggesting bishops be immune from personal responsibility?
That would be a recipe for disaster.
Perhaps they should have liability insurance that covers something like this, such as medical malpractice
You think you’re upset about the money now?
Introduce liability insurance and you just might see costs that exceed the settlements.
The needs of the victim should be determined by the family.
So…you’re saying the family comes up with a figure and then only goes after the priest? Who probably has nothing.
And what if they find the bishop knew about the priest’s problem and did nothing about it?
The Priest - do we forget that our Catholicism forgives a repentant sinner? Is the Catholic Church a zero tolerance Church against sinners? The Priest/offender has to admit wrondoing in confession and he must make reparations.
This has nothing to do with any forgiveness or so-called “repentance” on the part of the priest.
Let’s say a priest is caught embezzling money. He confesses- he is forgiven.
When he is reassigned - shouldn’t the bishop consider putting him in a posititon where access to money is limited?

How much more precious are children than dollar bills?
Are we required to risk the safety of our children in order to prove how forgiving we are?
No…placing anyone - priest or not- who has shown a predatory tendency towards children should NEVER EVER EVER be placed near children again.
Priests who have committed these atrocities should be stripped of their priesthood.
There is no “cure” for this. When an alcoholic relapses - he/she grabs a bottle of booze. When a child abuser relapses, he grabs an innocent child.
I am trying to look at this through a Catholic lens and not make the Church accountable to government which would have far reaching implications.
I don’t see anything in catholic teaching that claims catholics are not subject to civil laws.
I do not see anything that suggests our shepherds should not be held accountable by civil authorities.

We cannot expect the Church to police itself - this has already proven to be a disaster.
 
I am waiting for the Boston Globe to lead a crusade against sex abuse in public schools, which is far worse than it had been in the Church. Considering that maybe about 1% of all priests are guilty of sexual crimes compared to up to 10% of society at large, I would think that there certainly is a media scam underway.
I’m also waiting for the media to do a better job exposing the abuse occurring in the schools.
But…just because they are failing in this story - does not make the Church’s scandal a scam either.

I’m not sure where the 1% figure is coming from regarding priests…how do they know for certain how many are guilty?

Anyways…I think it is interesting some here are arguing that the Church is somehow above civil authorities - the Church operates on a “higher law” and then we see people say “well - only 1% of priests do this!”

If our priests are truly representing a “higher law” in the world why would the Church be willing to tolerate “only” 1% of abusive priests in their ranks?
Don’t you see the contradiction?
 
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Lorarose:
They are ones who can find interrogators who specialize in interviewing children.

Are you suggesting bishops be immune from personal responsibility?
That would be a recipe for disaster.

You think you’re upset about the money now?
Introduce liability insurance and you just might see costs that exceed the settlements.

So…you’re saying the family comes up with a figure and then only goes after the priest? Who probably has nothing.
And what if they find the bishop knew about the priest’s problem and did nothing about it?

This has nothing to do with any forgiveness or so-called “repentance” on the part of the priest.
Let’s say a priest is caught embezzling money. He confesses- he is forgiven.
When he is reassigned - shouldn’t the bishop consider putting him in a posititon where access to money is limited?

How much more precious are children than dollar bills?
Are we required to risk the safety of our children in order to prove how forgiving we are?
No…placing anyone - priest or not- who has shown a predatory tendency towards children should NEVER EVER EVER be placed near children again.
Priests who have committed these atrocities should be stripped of their priesthood.
There is no “cure” for this. When an alcoholic relapses - he/she grabs a bottle of booze. When a child abuser relapses, he grabs an innocent child.

I don’t see anything in catholic teaching that claims catholics are not subject to civil laws.
I do not see anything that suggests our shepherds should not be held accountable by civil authorities.

We cannot expect the Church to police itself - this has already proven to be a disaster.
Fundamentally that is a problem. The Church by its very definition and mission should be able to police itself. That is the essence of Catholicism. Are we going to cede this to the government? I do not agree we should. We have to look deeper for the solution than to simply hand it over to government. The solution will not be handled by men. The solution lies in God and his grace.

Interrogators - the same ones that dredge up so-called repressed memories. Or leading the witness to say whatever they want. They have shown to be failures as well.

Yes, the offender (by the way are not all Priests) should be reassigned out of temptation.

If the bishop is found guilty of wrong doing than he should be dealt with also. However, acting on the advice of our physchologist gods does not make him guilty. The reality is a little more complex than you are making it out to be.

I really think you have to think about this in a less vengeful way.

There is no excuse for any child predators. We should also think on how we are isolating these very same children from looking up to a truly holy Priest and depriving them of wholesome relationships with Priests and laity.

By isolating Priests we are allowing Satan to tempt them even more. This is a downward spiral.
 
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buffalo:
True! But the reporters should still tell the truth.
Who said the reporters were not telling the truth. At almost 1 billion dollars paid to victims, you can’t possibly think that all reporters were lying. I’m sure they were as sickened as I am. Now I wish they would report more on why the church is still harboring abusers. Can anyone please tell me why those 13 brothers from St. John’s in Collegeville from Minnesota are “Under Restrictions” and not locked up?
 
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Lorarose:
I’m also waiting for the media to do a better job exposing the abuse occurring in the schools.
But…just because they are failing in this story - does not make the Church’s scandal a scam either.
I don’t believe the media will cover this with the same zeal they had for the Catholic Church. The facts are out there. They will have to report the fact most is homosexual abuse. They won’t do it.
 
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buffalo:
I don’t believe the media will cover this with the same zeal they had for the Catholic Church. The facts are out there. They will have to report the fact most is homosexual abuse. They won’t do it.
If the church got rid of all the homosexuals, how many priests do you think we would have left. You think we have a shortage now!!!
 
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snoopy:
Who said the reporters were not telling the truth. At almost 1 billion dollars paid to victims, you can’t possibly think that all reporters were lying. I’m sure they were as sickened as I am. Now I wish they would report more on why the church is still harboring abusers. Can anyone please tell me why those 13 brothers from St. John’s in Collegeville from Minnesota are “Under Restrictions” and not locked up?
They will not report the difference between pedophilia and pederasty. Pedophilia is perhaps 1% of the general population. Pederesty is mcuh much higher. They have reported some truth, but not the whole truth. They will not do it, trust me as it goes against their homosexual agenda.

I am speaking of the media in general. Individual reporters have acted sincerely in interviewing victims I am sure. They should now act sincerely in exposing the whole truth.
 
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snoopy:
If the church got rid of all the homosexuals, how many priests do you think we would have left. You think we have a shortage now!!!
Well now, you just contradicted the whole argument. Let’s accept the homosexuals or we won’t have any Priests, but the pre-pubescent children are now more valuable than the post-pubescent? Let’s only get rid of the pedophiles, but since their are more homosexuals we don’t? Give me a break!
 
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buffalo:
Well now, you just contradicted the whole argument. Let’s accept the homosexuals or we won’t have any Priests, but the pre-pubescent children are now more valuable than the post-pubescent? Let’s only get rid of the pedophiles, but since their are more homosexuals we don’t? Give me a break!
This is an honest question. I really want to know what would happen if we removed all the homosexual priests tomorrow. BTW, I’m playing devils advocate here. You tell me. Why aren’t all the homosexual priests dismissed from the priesthood? What do you think is the reason the pope or bishop’s won’t do that? Don’t you think it’s because then we will really know what a shortage is.
 
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snoopy:
This is an honest question. I really want to know what would happen if we removed all the homosexual priests tomorrow.
If we removed all the unchaste gay promoting Priests we would have to undergo massive consolodation and inconvenience on the part of the parishioners. Is that a price we are willing to pay?

A true purification of the Church would be a hardship on its members… But what would be the condition of the Church in say 5 or 10 years after?

The fact that vocations ahve been so low in the last 40 years - could it be the Holy Spirit housecleaning?

Why hasn’t it happened - how does one identify the unchaste? There are also some now in positions of protection. Might be a good poll question?
 
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