Is the story of Noah's Ark true?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tryingtobecatholic1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Scientifically and logistically the story isn’t tenable at all.
I would dispute this, primarily based on the scientific fact that there is more than enough water on earth to cover the entire surface of the globe. (The average depth of the ocean minus the average height of land above sea level. You do the maths.)

But there’s no need to revert to secular investigative journalism because with God all things are possible and He doesn’t need to obey what we call the ‘laws’ of physics.
 
Dinosaurs. Who knows? Yet, mankind had not yet been created so they are still in keeping with what God has revealed. The Coelacanth, well…
 
Imagine glacial melting massive enough to carve the Mississippi Valley, which glacial melt did. Were people around then when perhaps the world’s biggest lakes ever, atop mile-deep glaciers broke through in worldwide catastrophic floods? We think they were, don’t we?

I’m not saying it happened that way. But I’m not saying it couldn’t have.
 
I often use legends to make a point. That does not mean the legends are some sort of journalistic accounts of actual events, legends are a way for people to learn a truth.
 
There is no doubt that Noah’s flood was real. Jesus quoted it.
Jesus references the narrative of Genesis 3 in John chapter 8, and the events of Genesis 3 are allegorical. Does “Jesus mentions it” imply “it was a historical occurrence”? It seems that the answer is “no”.
I was just wondering if it was the original Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope .
Not with Harrison Ford looking that old, it isn’t! 🤣
Yes, it’s TRUE.
“It’s true” and “it literally happened in the way it was written” are two distinct and different assertions… 😉
 
As far as I know, the Church has nothing against allegorical interpretations of the events of Genesis. As Catholics, we’re not bound to be disciples of Kent Hovind, so I wouldn’t worry too much about the particulars of the flood story. It’s intended to convey a message moreso than to recount a historical event.
 
The thing is with that is why would God make a flood in one part of the world for the reason of people turning away from God? Wouldn’t there have been a greater number of heretics in countries like China and elsewhere where Judaism wasn’t known?
Was there such a thing as “Judaism” at the time of the Flood? Abraham came after Noah.
So, given that there is little evidence except Scripture of the Great Flood happening. How are we as Catholic’s meant to believe in Noah’s Ark. What are we supposed to believe?
Many say that there are indications on Mount Ararat that the Ark really did rest there. The national crest of Armenia features Ararat and the Ark.

40.png
Dan_Defender:
The debate is whether it was global or regional.
My take is it would be regional, yet be the “whole world (of humanity)” since the dispersal of humanity had not happened yet (until the Tower of Babel). Humanity was at this point a “regional phenomenon” on the planet - if the flood were after the Tower, then it would need to be a planet wide flood, I believe.
This makes sense, assuming that humanity was at the time confined to one general area. Not sure how this would square with fossil evidence at various places in the world.
 
Evolution does not recognize two first parents, Adam and Eve. Due to their disobeying one command, Original Sin occurred. For this reason, Jesus Christ was born.
 
There may be remains of the Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey. The CIA has a photo labeled Ararat Anomaly.
 
40.png
Tryingtobecatholic1:
The thing is with that is why would God make a flood in one part of the world for the reason of people turning away from God? Wouldn’t there have been a greater number of heretics in countries like China and elsewhere where Judaism wasn’t known?
Was there such a thing as “Judaism” at the time of the Flood? Abraham came after Noah.
Technically, Judaism didn’t emerge until after the return from Babylonian Exile (exiled in 598/7 and 587/6 returned 538 BC) during the Greek occupation of Palestine.

The ten northern tribes of Israel were exiled by the Assyrians (between 734-732 BC) and completely dispersed into the Assyrian Empire, while five groups of other peoples were settled by the Assyrian kings into the former territory of the Northern Kingdom (Kingdom of Israel).

The remaining two Israelite tribes, Judah and Benjamin, lasted about 150 years in the Southern Kingdom. Since the tribe of Judah was the dominant group — the Southern Kingdom came to be called the Kingdom of Judah. When they returned from exile, they began to be referred to as Jews from the name Judah.

Judaism, as a religious and cultural term eventually came about, I think during the Greek occupation of Judea as the Southern Kingdom of Judah came to be known.

So Jews, Judea, and Judaism all come from the name of the tribe of Judah, the predominant of the remaining two of the original twelve tribes (sons) of the Patriarch Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham following the exiles.
 
Technically, Judaism didn’t emerge until after the return from Babylonian Exile (exiled in 598/7 and 587/6 returned 538 BC) during the Greek occupation of Palestine.
I would have to date it from the time of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) and the revelation of various religious laws (Leviticus et al), or at least from the time of Abraham. That was what I had in mind when I questioned whether Judaism as a religion even existed when Noah built the Ark.
 
40.png
HarryStotle:
Technically, Judaism didn’t emerge until after the return from Babylonian Exile (exiled in 598/7 and 587/6 returned 538 BC) during the Greek occupation of Palestine.
I would have to date it from the time of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) and the revelation of various religious laws (Leviticus et al), or at least from the time of Abraham. That was what I had in mind when I questioned whether Judaism as a religion even existed when Noah built the Ark.
You are correct about the religion itself. I was trying to depict the etymology of the word Judaism.

In terms of what we would identify as the religious practice of Judaism, that would be from the time of Moses and the Exodus from Egypt.
 
Instead of reading Genesis literally or scientifically. Ask yourself what is God trying to teach humanity? What is the message? I think people get too obsessed with Genesis.
 
Last edited:
Jesus used parables as teaching tools…He could do the same with the lessons taught in the first ten chapters of Genesis.
 
Jesus used parables as teaching tools…He could do the same with the lessons taught in the first ten chapters of Genesis.
The ark and the flood is a pretty detailed and long story. And didn’t our Lady of Fatima or was it Garibaldi say things had not been this bad since the flood?
 
Last edited:
As far as I know, the Church has nothing against allegorical interpretations of the events of Genesis
Hmm… 🤔

Is Abraham merely allegorical?
Isaac?
Can we say that Israel is not a real person, but only allegorical?
What about Joseph? If he’s allegorical, doesn’t that tear down the whole of Exodus and beyond?

I think I would assert that you’re painting with strokes that are far too broad. Is Genesis 3 allegorical? The Church says “yes”. How about the narratives prior to the patriarchs? Generally, I think, we can agree that the answer can be argued as “yes”. But, once we reach the patriarchs, the argument for pure allegory weakens and falls apart.
Evolution does not recognize two first parents, Adam and Eve.
That’s because “evolution” – that is, properly speaking, “science” – does not make assertions about souls, which is what the question of our first true human parents is all about.
Soooo. Do you think God would quote something erroneous?
No… but He would quote Scripture. 😉
 
Jesus also quoted quite a few people - like the owner of the vineyard. But no one is trying to show that the owner of the vineyard was Avraham bar Baruch, who lived 2 valleys over.

We don’t know if Noah was an actual person or a composite of Several people, nor when he may have lived (those who try to force genealogies will constantly run into problems, as the Jews had a different understanding of genealogy, than say the LDS church with its fascination of genealogy.

There is no evidence of a world wide flood within the time of known writing, which dates vback to about 3500 BC. There were known floods, due to the ending of the Great Ice Age, which ended somewhere around 11,000 BC to 15,000 BC. Two of those impacted the northwest US, one the Missoula floods, and the other the Bonneville flood. There also is evidence of major area floods in that general time range in the Asia/Middle East.

And someone took a potshot at the Gilgamesh; it is not the only story (as well as Noah) in other parts of the world.

It would appear that any story dating back to when there were known floods would have been passed down through oral history. And Oral history often has a consistency greater that we sometimes give it; when they only history which is passed down is oral, there is a strong tendency to maintain the story repetition accurately over generations. We need also to keep in mind that whomever Noah was, Noah was not a member of the Jewish faith or clans.

Again, trying to prove or disprove Noah misses why we have the story of Noah. It is not to [rove the truth of him and his lineage; it is given to show mankind’s relationship with God, and one of the number of covenants which God has made with mankind, and often specifically with the Jewish faith. And that - the theological point of the story - is why we have the story - whether Noah a specific individual existed, or the story is an amalgam of a number of people, or it is simply given without reference to any specific person.

There is evidence that within Scripture, the cosmology describes an earth with a bowl above it: Job 38: 18 “Do you spread out with him the fimament of the skies, hard as a brazen mirror?” Are we to believe that the waters which come down are held back by some giant domw, through which God lets the rains fall?

Only if we decide that we look to the Bible not for matters of faith, but matters of cosmology, or history according to 21st century concepts of matters 5,000 or 10,000 or 15,000 years ago.

Do I believe in Noah? My faith does not require that Noah was exactly as described, or sort of, or was an amalgam, or that the whole world was under water.

But that is not the intent of the story theologically. Trying to prove or disprove the story misses the point of it entirely.
 
That would be incorrect. Church teaching maintains a literal two first parents. Pope Pius XII warned about those trying to change the Old Testament. To make things symbolic. The Church has the final say. If there was no Original Sin then Adam and Eve would have lived on earth forever. But since that was not the case, Jesus Christ had to be born to save body and soul from death, literally. Rising from the dead bodily Himself.
 
Although it is not written in the way modern historians would pen it, Genesis is true history that would seem to use some language that is not literal. The extent of the non-literal language is a great question.
What we must not do is to take God’s miracles as going so far but not far enough. In other words, say God decides to flood the world, and goes to lengths to warn a righteous family to build an ark and gather (if I recall) 7 pairs of clean animals and a pair of the unclean, but then, given that this family gives their all, would fail to give them enough to do this? God does not ask the impossible: what is too hard for Him? It did take a long time for the flood to come (lots of time to prepare) and we should remember that this would be a miraculous event.
There are many such records of a great flood around the world.
One thing the Bible does well is to counteract the pagan message. The names of the sun and moon were the names of the sun god and moon god, so how does Genesis describe them? As lights! The flood didn’t happen because humans were too noisy and annoyed the gods, but because they were immoral. (ps thanks to Jimmy Akin for these examples!)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top