Is the United States the best country ever?

[Kaninchen]

The US is wonderful, we’ve spent quite a lot of time there.

Wouldn’t want to live there permanently though, I mean, well, not wanting to be prejudiced or anything but it’s absolutely full of, well (looking around nervously), Americans.

 

[PolarGuy]

Latias, you asked if I had “any evidence” of “millions of rapes” by Russians against Germans. I most certainly do:

–historian Antony Beevor estimates that 1.4 million rapes occurred in east Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania alone (and none of these areas were occupied by american or British forces).
–he’s called it the greatest mass rape in history.
–historian bill Hitchcock has documented women being raped 60-70 times.
–100,000 more rapes occurred in Berlin (another area us troops never got to in WWII) based on records of abortions surging in that area shortly thereafter.
–many rapes were committed in public and/or in front of the women’s families, to deliberately add to the humiliation.
–the foregoing is just for starters.

Denying these rapes is akin to denying the holocaust.

Rapes of German women in WWII has it’s own wikipedia page if you’d care to look.

I reiterate that the red army in WWII was an army of rapists.

 

[Entwhistler]

I’ll make a respectful objection to the question itself.

Do elaborate.

 

[clem456]

Do elaborate.

Given that all things come to pass in the way of principalities and powers, I don’t like to consider whether America is “the best” because I know what we hope for as Christians.

I love this country but I am a follower of Jesus Christ first, and so I am just trying to keep patriotism in perspective.
We have many faults. And we have killed more human beings than any society ever. Well, China has also aborted many children, but the point is not about the body count, but about the constant problems plaguing humanity in every society since the beginning of time.

I just don’t think the comparisons work in that way.
I like the fact that our Declaration recognizes the creator and supports human dignity and equality, but that declaration has not guaranteed best practices unfortunately. We don’t live it very well.

 

[clem456]

The US also had autocratic allies such as Singman Rhee, Suharto, Pinochet, the Saudi monarchy. The US also abetted human rights atrocities in Latin America during the Cold War.

Moreover, people who actually lived the East Germany, the Soviet Union, and Hungary liked it under socialism. This is indicated by several polls, for example.

Earlier this week on the national news a man was on trial for kidnapping his son from his mother about 15-20 years ago.
The son defended the father in court.

Just food for thought.

 

[exnihilo]

I think that is a hard judgment to make. We are the best in terms of accumulated wealth. We are pretty low morally.

Americans don’t know what fear of the government is.

Does the government arrest you for what you say about your leaders? Drag you through a show trial before a corrupt judge? Sentence you to a gulag? When it does, you can fear he government. When it does…you live in the USSR.

My point is that Americans have no real reason to fear their government. I don’t doubt that, say, the IRS was wrongfully sicced on people, but compared to some other world regimes in recent memory, that’s nothing.

Americans are much more docile. So we don’t much challenge the state. Our government is much smarter than the Soviet. It doesn’t jail you for speaking out against the state. It finds one of the tens of thousands of laws and uses one of those, which could be applied to anyone, to get you. It doesn’t put you in a labor camp, it isolates you from nature and your fellow man. It prefers more passive techniques because people don’t object to them. If you are an enemy of the state it may not be the state that punishes you but one of its corporate partners. This keeps the state’s hands clean.

 

[GEddie]

I think if you asked people in those countries, were you able to a) ask and b) get a truthful answer and c) they were able to compare and contrast, in, say 1980, they would prefer what they have today. The fondness for former communist rule is known in Germany as ‘Ostalgie’ (portmanteau of ‘ost’/east and nostalgia). It doesn’t mean that people would be very happy if a return was forced upon them.

The mere fact that they can today express such sentiments is proof positive that they are in the sense of political freedoms, better off today.

Not to mention, older people (and anybody having clear memories of the Communist period would by default be middle-aged or older) have a stereotypical propensity to romanticize the past, but what they are really admiring is the young life they had back then.

Would you imagine that a Grandma enjoying fond memories of her life during the Depression or WW2 periods would really want to see those crises return?

ICXC NIKA

 

[mikekle]

I think that is a hard judgment to make. We are the best in terms of accumulated wealth. We are pretty low morally.

Americans are much more docile. So we don’t much challenge the state. Our government is much smarter than the Soviet. It doesn’t jail you for speaking out against the state. It finds one of the tens of thousands of laws and uses one of those, which could be applied to anyone, to get you. It doesn’t put you in a labor camp, it isolates you from nature and your fellow man. It prefers more passive techniques because people don’t object to them. If you are an enemy of the state it may not be the state that punishes you but one of its corporate partners. This keeps the state’s hands clean.

Exactly.

People do not challenge the state, because largely they dont care, most of them are living in their own little worlds, and only concerned with that, as long as their comfortable little lives are not impacted too much, they could not care less.

But even when they are impacted, most americans wont do much about it, they may whine and cry a little bit at first, maybe write their senators to complain, maybe blog about it, etc, but in the end, they are most certainly not willing to take it a step further and risk their own freedom…this is the difference between modern people and patriots living in the US in the past…but its NO coincidence it has become this way either.

Do any of you actually think many people today would be willing to stage another Boston Tea party type event in retaliation to something our Govt did? LOL The ones who are willing, surprisingly most people side with Govt and view them as domestic terrorists??? There are recent examples of these types too. LOL

The US is quickly becoming a nation of extremely subservient, Govt ‘subjects’ who obey consistently, no matter what, but are too blind to recognize whats going on…in reality, I dont really think we should be celebrating July 4th anymore, the spirit of 1776 is long gone here now.

 

[PolarGuy]

I’m sorry, exniliho, I obviously respectfully disagree with much of what you write.

We’re “really low morally?” Seriously? Compared to whom? North Korea? I would postulate that we’re very high morally, for the same reasons I articulated implicitly above. In many other nations there is an ingrained culture of cheating, I.e., in places like Mexico it’s just “the way it is” that you will need to bribe the police. In communist nations, occupants know the government is the enemy; it’s just “the way it is.” Similarly, I know a doctor who, when he entered Peru on a medical mission, had his medical supplies and medicines stolen by the police. When he challenged them that he was trying to help Peruvians, their response was “you can spare it.” Point is, Anyone who has travelled extensively, particularly to places like Africa and South American, know that most of the world is a moral cesspool compared to the USA.

Further, a lot of what you write has elements of “black helicopters and tinfoil hats” in it. There are no political prisons here; trials are not overseen by kangaroo courts.

And we’re “docile,” too?!? Again, compared to the terrified sheeplike inhabitants of places like the Far East and the Middle East? I have all I can do to convince posters on this board that Americans aren’t all gunslinging cowboys! What you call “docile,” I call “law abiding.”

(And if you think we’re docile, come see parts of my home state, New Jersey!)

 

[clem456]

Exactly.

People do not challenge the state, because largely they dont care, most of them are living in their own little worlds, and only concerned with that, as long as their comfortable little lives are not impacted too much, they could not care less.

But even when they are impacted, most americans wont do much about it, they may whine and cry a little bit at first, maybe write their senators to complain, maybe blog about it, etc, but in the end, they are most certainly not willing to take it a step further and risk their own freedom…this is the difference between modern people and patriots living in the US in the past…but its NO coincidence it has become this way either.

Do any of you actually think many people today would be willing to stage another Boston Tea party type event in retaliation to something our Govt did? LOL The ones who are willing, surprisingly most people side with Govt and view them as domestic terrorists??? There are recent examples of these types too. LOL

The US is quickly becoming a nation of extremely subservient, Govt ‘subjects’ who obey consistently, no matter what, but are too blind to recognize whats going on…in reality, I dont really think we should be celebrating July 4th anymore, the spirit of 1776 is long gone here now.

This all works because we are relatively prosperous here. In fact we are wildly prosperous as a percentage of the world’s population.

If we start losing our stuff, look out.

One of the reasons ISIS thrives is poverty and disenchantment. People who have nothing but sand are more willing to pick up a gun to get “them”.
We in the West are the “them” currently.

 

[PolarGuy]

I wonder: the people here who trash the US government - are they the same ones who want all sorts of freebies aka “services” for, say, their autistic kids? The same autistic kids who would get killed in places like North Korea? Wait, we’re morally low,’ I forgot.

 

[clem456]

I wonder: the people here who trash the US government - are they the same ones who want all sorts of freebies aka “services” for, say, their autistic kids? The same autistic kids who would get killed in places like North Korea? Wait, we’re morally low,’ I forgot.

I think autistic and other challenged human beings should get whatever help can be provided. How to do it is always a good discussion.
I think North Korea should stop killing children, as should the United States.

We should have a hard time moralizing to anyone else, given the unborn body count we have here.

 

[exnihilo]

I’m sorry, exniliho, I obviously respectfully disagree with much of what you write.

We’re “really low morally?” Seriously? Compared to whom? North Korea? I would postulate that we’re very high morally, for the same reasons I articulated implicitly above. In many other nations there is an ingrained culture of cheating, I.e., in places like Mexico it’s just “the way it is” that you will need to bribe the police. In communist nations, occupants know the government is the enemy; it’s just “the way it is.” Similarly, I know a doctor who, when he entered Peru on a medical mission, had his medical supplies and medicines stolen by the police. When he challenged them that he was trying to help Peruvians, their response was “you can spare it.” Point is, Anyone who has travelled extensively, particularly to places like Africa and South American, know that most of the world is a moral cesspool compared to the USA.

As I said it is hard to judge. Yes, North Korea is pretty terrible. Yes, we are better then the Soviet Union was. But, we have all of history to consider. I’d say any culture where it is a protected right to kill the unborn is really low morally. We may have lots of company on the bottom but that is where we are.

I do think the United States and Europe, really Christendom, have a pretty high degree of truthfulness. I agree that other cultures are nowhere near as honest. But again, we have to consider history. I’m not sure the US today is more honest then Christian countries in the past.

I do think petty corruption is fairly low in the US. But my point was the beauty of the US is to perfect corruption in the law. No, the police aren’t as likely to take the $100 bill from your wallet. But what they’ll do is impound all of your cash and make you prove it wasn’t obtained illegally. They’ll do this by the law.

Further, a lot of what you write has elements of “black helicopters and tinfoil hats” in it. There are no political prisons here; trials are not overseen by kangaroo courts.

How would you know there are no political prisons? I’m not saying there are. But how can you say there are not? At this point in our history we have an admittedly secret government. They can search without a warrant and forbid you or anyone with knowledge of this from disclosing this. There is a prison in Cuba where people are held indefinitely without a trial. The president has a kill list. This is what is admitted. Who knows what else goes on. I don’t trust a secret government.

And we’re “docile,” too?!? Again, compared to the terrified sheeplike inhabitants of places like the Far East and the Middle East? I have all I can do to convince posters on this board that Americans aren’t all gunslinging cowboys! What you call “docile,” I call “law abiding.”

(And if you think we’re docile, come see parts of my home state, New Jersey!)

Again we have to consider history. If you go back in even our own history the people were far less docile. My very point was that we look at our docility as being law abiding.

 

[PolarGuy]

I will say that the killing of the unborn is a national disgrace.

America is not perfect - but it’s still the best.

 

[anon67074017]

You’d rather be a colonial of the Russians than a liberal American?

Russia would not colonize the US. They would help the South gain independence in this scenario.

 

[Sarcelle]

Rightfully so.

Well, Texas may still secede.

 

[anon67074017]

Rightfully so.

Well, Texas may still secede.

Texas should help form a new Confederacy if they secede.

 

[on_the_hill]

Yes.

When I was young, I loved America. I was true red-white-n-blue all the way through. As I got into my teen and college years, many of my friends hated America. It was being over-run by conservatives, old white men were in control, there was no political awareness, “ugly” Americans are an embarrassment, our rights are being trampled on, blah blah blah. It irked me and rankled me to no end.

Now that I’m older, I still love America. And I’m hearing the same whiny attitude from conservatives. People don’t have traditional values, America is weak, taxes are too high, the government is big brother, we’re being overrun by illegal aliens, our rights are being trampled on, blah blah blah.

Maybe you all nattering nabobs of negativity can move to France, where all liberals ran off to in the 1980s because of Reagan and Bush.

Oh, yeah. The liberals didn’t actually go anywhere, because for all their belly-achin’ they knew deep down they’re better off here than anywhere else. So maybe put that in your cannabis pipe and smoke it. :hey_bud:

 

[phil19034]

Texas should help form a new Confederacy if they secede.

Dude… A second civil would NOT be state against state. It would be rural vs urban.

Remember Texas has the mayor who wanted to collect sermons from churches.

 

[GEddie]

Texas should help form a new Confederacy if they secede.

No, why repeat our tragic mistake of 1861?

Should Texas decide to forego a Federal union, it should go its own way. A federal government based in Virginia or Alabama is no more representative of Texans than the one we have now.

ICXC NIKA.