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Abbadon
Guest
And I get profiled all the time and I NEVER commit crimes or break laws. But I receive no end of strife from police. I do not think highly of the police.
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Nick_in_MB
Guest
Very true.
But neither do those that enforce the laws get to pick and choose too.
A state trooper with a suspended license gets pulled over for speeding while off-duty while on his way to provide security to a ball game, he’s breaking the law.
Our lt. governor was pulled over with a DUI, just because he’s in a political position doesn’t give him the right to drink and drive.
Along with out state treasurer, who was arrested for possession of cocaine. He doesn’t get to do that either, and neither does the city councilman who was selling it from his gas station.
So, if it’s illegal for a cop to hide behind trees and run radar, then I should be allowed to know they are there, that they themselves are breaking the law. The system is set up where the citizens are allowed to notify people of when others in power are violating the law. Like how we are allowed to browse the books to see if a councilman is using his county credit card for personal use (it being used to pay for his family vacation to Hawaii).
Shouldn’t it depend on the intentions of using the radar detector? Not all of them strictly detect radar. Like I said, mine detects other emergency vehicles. The one for the DOT will come in handy if I need help with a flat tire or my car is stranded. It’ll let me know if a truck is nearby. Same with for fire trucks and ambulances. It lets me know if they are approaching, another level of notification other than the siren that you may not always hear until it’s on top of you waiting for you to pull over. And if it’s not approaching, the radar detector fades, even though I may still hear the siren.
And yes, for speed traps, since cops are supposed to be in the open and visible when using radar. Them hiding, that’s corrupt, just like the politician using taxpayer money for personal use. But we don’t just stand around and let them do that, do we?
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Nick_in_MB
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Ever got a ticket for doing the speed limit in clear conditions, but have the ticket say “too fast for conditions” with conditions reading “clear” all because he knew you can say he never used his radar?
I did, I didn’t fight it though because of the costs to get the lawyer to fight it. A cop should not be allowed to bully, and that what that is, bullying, people just because you doing agree with his opinion of if fences should be allowed in the front yard.
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1holycatholic
Guest
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1holycatholic
Guest
Why do you think they have singled you out?
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Nick_in_MB
Guest
Well, I don’t mean literally on top of me.
But, driving in traffic, suddenly you hear the sirens. You look around, can’t see it, don’t know if you should pull over (it could be on the intersection you’re waiting to cross over, or under the overpass you’re driving over). Perhaps there’s a big truck in front of you, or behind you, and you can’t get a clear view out of your mirrors. And yes, they should be attempting to pull over too, and maybe they are, maybe they have a better view and know it’s on the other side of the divided road so they know they are fine.
But the radar detector, and I’m thinking they aren’t all the same, but it goes off with a distinctive beep, and shows a number from 1 to 5, 5 being the vehicle it’s detecting is right behind you or in front of you. And it starts detecting it while it’s a pretty good distance away, so my reaction-time for the vehicle is able to increase, I know to be ready for it, in addition to it’s sirens.
Regarding profiling though, it does happen. Myrtle Beach is a tourist area, and as such, a number of tourists get pulled over. A law here is for the public to be notified of traffic stops. They publish them online on our local paper’s website. The thing is, your average tourist, even if they have internet access, isn’t typically going to check the local paper online.
So these stops, they are for getting tourists who are drinking and driving. Yes, that’s illegal anyway (the drinking/driving part), but locals are notified legally, so they know the streets to avoid.
Many area lawyers advertise strictly for tourists, saying they’ll go to court for you so you don’t have to come back to the area. For a local, that’s not an issue. So I’m thinking that many tourists need this service, since lawyers tend to advertise this.
And in about a week, motorcycle riders will be profiled during out rallies. The city decided to bypass state law and enact a helmet law. The state law is vague, all it says is those under 21 have to wear a helmet. And the Supreme Court won’t decide if the city is allowed to do this or not, until a case is brought before them from an “offender.”
And the helmet laws, it’s there as a way to inconvience motorcyclists, since the city last year stated they wished to end the rallies, but they don’t have the power to since individual rallying points are all over the county.
Edited to add:
And we have a city here that’s 99% African-American. It’s 2 blocks long, so I wouldn’t really call it a city, but that’s what it’s called, Atlantic Beach. If you’re white, the cops are waiting to pull you over if you are in any of the neighboring streets (this city is literally within another city) in the early morning and late night hours. Their thinking is that if you’re white, you’re there for drugs or sex. My own father was pulled over while he was dropping of plant containers to a tropical plant store on his way to work. And the cop flat out told him, that they thought he was in the area at that hour for drugs.
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Again, lets not paint with such a broad brush. I don’t know the particulars of your citation.** I **have never written someone a citations for “too fast for conditions” when the conditions were clear. I am careful about not having my name present on bad case law. I do not bully people, I do not use intimidation with people. Lets not call into question the integrity and character of all police officers because you have ran into a few bad ones.
Why not fight it? Why not complain to the officer’s Sgt? If the officer was bullying and he was not justified on his citation, why not go further with it? Help weed out the bad ones, or correct their behavior instead of belly aching about it and allowing it to jade your opinion about all police officers.
God bless
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Nick_in_MB
Guest
Because he’s a neighbor in my subdivision, and I don’t feel like making the situation worse in any possible way.
I don’t have a negative opinion of all officers. The first one to pull me over, for when physics affected my speed and I wasn’t braking hard enough to maintain the speed limit, was very nice and told me to in fact go to court instead of mailing in the fine, that both the fine and the points would be reduced, and they were.
The third time, for when I was passing a truck that was breaking the law, the cop was very kind, told me I didn’t have to pull over immediately (although I don’t think I would take the chance), and told me about the defensive driving course.
But I also don’t have a positive opinion on all officers. Not all them are deserving of their badge, and feel they are above the law at times. There will always be corrupt individuals, regardless if they are a cop or not.
Edited to add
And when my father got pulled over for being in the bad part of town, at the wrong time of the day, the cop let him go on his way. And when his car’s taillight was out, he got off with a warning, which is nice. Of course, when the light to illuminate his license plate was out, he also got off with a warning. And if that is indeed a law to have that illuminated at night, there’s a revenue stream going untouched around these parts.
I don’t have a negative opinion of all officers. The first one to pull me over, for when physics affected my speed and I wasn’t braking hard enough to maintain the speed limit, was very nice and told me to in fact go to court instead of mailing in the fine, that both the fine and the points would be reduced, and they were.
The third time, for when I was passing a truck that was breaking the law, the cop was very kind, told me I didn’t have to pull over immediately (although I don’t think I would take the chance), and told me about the defensive driving course.
But I also don’t have a positive opinion on all officers. Not all them are deserving of their badge, and feel they are above the law at times. There will always be corrupt individuals, regardless if they are a cop or not.
Edited to add
And when my father got pulled over for being in the bad part of town, at the wrong time of the day, the cop let him go on his way. And when his car’s taillight was out, he got off with a warning, which is nice. Of course, when the light to illuminate his license plate was out, he also got off with a warning. And if that is indeed a law to have that illuminated at night, there’s a revenue stream going untouched around these parts.
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Abbadon
Guest
My color of skin, my age and the car that I drive.
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Abbadon
Guest
Not all police are bad, but people in positions of power tend to often be corrupt with power… I may generalize but every individual I treat with respect until reasons are presented for me to consider them pigs… Random breath test police are often nice, general patrol are often nice etc, It’s just that more often than not police that pull you over for no real reason aren’t so nice… I was pulled over one time because my tail light was out and the guy was very nice, i went home and fixed a problem i was unaware about…
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BobCatholic
Guest
I believe I have a right to know when I’m being monitored by the government. So I have one and use it. I don’t have a lead foot, and watch my speed even when not monitored.
Merely using a radar detector is not immoral per se. I believe it to be morally neutral.
Merely using a radar detector is not immoral per se. I believe it to be morally neutral.
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1holycatholic
Guest
When I was in college I had roommates that were brothers roughly the same age. They both had the same dark skin. One had 80’s “hair band” hair and drove a heavily primered Firebird, the other had regular length hair and drove a nondescript car.
Guess who got pulled over frequently?
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CWBetts
Guest
“you” are not personally being monitred by the government. Traffic, that is the public as a whole id being monitored. And, frankly, they have a responsibilty to enforce traffic laws enacted for safety reasons. Saying you “have a right to know” is a silly argument anyways. If a police officer is parked near a raodway where he can easily enter traffic, you are probably being monitored. If while driving, a police car is behind you, he is probably running your paltes to check for warrants and checking for signs that you may have been drinking. Do not tell me you need a radar detector to tell you what is merely common sense.
Relax a little…it was simply stated that utilizing a radar detector is morally neutral.
You may disagree with the reasons if you wish, but I see nothing to indicate the usage is a moral failing.
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BiologyBrain
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This thread seems to have deteriorated to law enforcement bashers & law enforcement respecters. I know lots of cops. Most of them give people the benefit of the doubt in most situations. However, if someone is in danger - they are well within their civil authority rights to rectify the situation as best they can. As private citizens we are allowed to disgree, but we are called both by civil authority & by the Church to respect laws that are not against the natural law. Most cops sincerely want to make the world a better & safer place for the general public. Yes, sometimes they enjoy their authority - don’t we all? However, for the most part, cops are human, they make mistakes, but in the end they are wanting what’s best for society. It may make you uncomfortable & make you have to change your habits, but sometimes that change in habits can generate good in yourself & others.
Speed limit laws are not meant only for profit generation. Initially, they were enacted as an environmental notion - best gas mileage was obtained by driving 55 mph in most conditions/roads. Source Crash tests have also proven that driving 55 as opposed to 65 or greater reduces the risks of death in car accidents. Driving at above recommended speed also decreases the amount of reaction time available for making the split-second decisions necessary when driving. Its also harder to stop quickly the faster you are going. Most average people agree w/ speed limit laws & their enforcement. Source Most car accidents involve alcohol &/or excess speeds. Therefore, there are laws to protect society from these dangers - DUI laws & speed limit laws. There is currently concern that cell phones/distraction also play a part in many accidents, so studies are being done & laws are being passed restricting the use of cell phones while driving (several states have restrictions on cell phone usage while driving). It is our civil and moral duty to uphold these laws.
Using a radar detector (I’ve never heard of one that detects all emergency vehicles - it seems that wouldn’t be a radar detector per say, but something else as all emergency vehicles don’t use radar) to attempt to escape detection/punishment for wrong doing just seems a little morally wrong. If the intent is merely to be safer and more concientious (the emergency vehicle detector instance), then at the most it is morally neutral and quite possibly even morally good. So intent does play a part. However, I hazard a guess that most people w/ radar detectors don’t like cops, don’t respect the speed limit laws, and/or use the detectors to avoid detection/punishment for wrong doing. Therefore, most radar detector use IMO is wrong.
IMO God sees you doing wrong regardless of whether you get caught or not… I’d rather get caught by civil authority b/4 I hurt someone (including myself) and at least be honest enough to accept that I’m wrong.
Speed limit laws are not meant only for profit generation. Initially, they were enacted as an environmental notion - best gas mileage was obtained by driving 55 mph in most conditions/roads. Source Crash tests have also proven that driving 55 as opposed to 65 or greater reduces the risks of death in car accidents. Driving at above recommended speed also decreases the amount of reaction time available for making the split-second decisions necessary when driving. Its also harder to stop quickly the faster you are going. Most average people agree w/ speed limit laws & their enforcement. Source Most car accidents involve alcohol &/or excess speeds. Therefore, there are laws to protect society from these dangers - DUI laws & speed limit laws. There is currently concern that cell phones/distraction also play a part in many accidents, so studies are being done & laws are being passed restricting the use of cell phones while driving (several states have restrictions on cell phone usage while driving). It is our civil and moral duty to uphold these laws.
Using a radar detector (I’ve never heard of one that detects all emergency vehicles - it seems that wouldn’t be a radar detector per say, but something else as all emergency vehicles don’t use radar) to attempt to escape detection/punishment for wrong doing just seems a little morally wrong. If the intent is merely to be safer and more concientious (the emergency vehicle detector instance), then at the most it is morally neutral and quite possibly even morally good. So intent does play a part. However, I hazard a guess that most people w/ radar detectors don’t like cops, don’t respect the speed limit laws, and/or use the detectors to avoid detection/punishment for wrong doing. Therefore, most radar detector use IMO is wrong.
IMO God sees you doing wrong regardless of whether you get caught or not… I’d rather get caught by civil authority b/4 I hurt someone (including myself) and at least be honest enough to accept that I’m wrong.
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BiologyBrain
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I ran across this & thought it might be a good thing to insert into this discussion…
A policemen should always know who the bad guys are, but never ‘profile’ a type thats typical of the bad guys. They should always catch the bad guys before they do harm, but never falsely accuse or investigate some one. They should always be in a good mood - even when accusations and snarls are thrown at them for doing their job. They must put aside their personal safety in regards for someone else’s ‘rights’. They sacrifice themselves for society, but are viewed as a scourge on law-abiding citizens.
Profiling is a part of human life. We all look at one another & make some sort of judgement based on appearance. Sometimes the judgement is just and accepted, but other times its not. However, there are studies and statistics that back up certain ‘facts’ that are used in ‘profiling’. Men tend to drive faster than women and think its right. Sports cars are designed to go fast & its easy to get carried away. Young, inexperienced people are more prone to distraction while driving resulting in accidents. Certain times of day are more frequently associated w/ various acts. Certain locations are hotbeds of various acts. Certain car colors/styles catch the eye better. There are all types of categorizations that can be made and later proven incorrect. However, if the interest is public safety, I don’t have a problem w/ it.
I personally would add a few extras…
A policemen should always know who the bad guys are, but never ‘profile’ a type thats typical of the bad guys. They should always catch the bad guys before they do harm, but never falsely accuse or investigate some one. They should always be in a good mood - even when accusations and snarls are thrown at them for doing their job. They must put aside their personal safety in regards for someone else’s ‘rights’. They sacrifice themselves for society, but are viewed as a scourge on law-abiding citizens.
Profiling is a part of human life. We all look at one another & make some sort of judgement based on appearance. Sometimes the judgement is just and accepted, but other times its not. However, there are studies and statistics that back up certain ‘facts’ that are used in ‘profiling’. Men tend to drive faster than women and think its right. Sports cars are designed to go fast & its easy to get carried away. Young, inexperienced people are more prone to distraction while driving resulting in accidents. Certain times of day are more frequently associated w/ various acts. Certain locations are hotbeds of various acts. Certain car colors/styles catch the eye better. There are all types of categorizations that can be made and later proven incorrect. However, if the interest is public safety, I don’t have a problem w/ it.
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aspawloski4th
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Sounds like you shouldn’t be driving then if you cant determine a safe speed on your own.
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BiologyBrain
Guest
I don’t see where you’re coming from w/ what you quoted & your response…
I don’t have the benefit of years of studies, statistics, and road knowledge. I can drive at speeds I’m comfortable with, but they may not be safest for pedestrians, other drivers, etc. It is well within civil authority’s rights to tell me what to do to protect the rest of society from my possible bad decisions. Drunk people think they can determine safe speed on their own… Yet, they kill people fairly regularly. Distracted teens think they can determine safe speed while texting their friends while driving, but cause many accidents. Most of the time, individual judgement is only good for the individual, not society as a whole.
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aspawloski4th
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Thats because their judgement is impaired from being drunk. Someone whoe’s senses are working should be able to tell them selves what speed they are able to handle. The safest highway in the world over the years happens to be the autobonn where there is no speedlimit. If one drives after reasonable speed they can handle to conditions they don’t need their face burried in the speedomeeter to “keep safe”. In my 20+ years of driving Ive been involved in 4 crashes none of which I got any kind of ticket for. All 4 of them were because the other driver was not paying attenetion to what they were doing and no connection to speed what so ever on either car involved in the crash. Within reason I don’t really care what speed others are driving, but whether or not something is taking theeir attention off their driving ie cell phones, tewxting , etc. .
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Nick_in_MB
Guest
True.
But when a cop is hiding behind trees while running radar, and doing so is illegal, do we not have the right to notify his/her boss? Or do we just let them continue to break the law themselves because they are in a position of power?
Sure, a radar detector can be used to check if cops are around in order to speed and get a ticket. But does that make the use of the device immoral? The same could be said about the car itself, since it can be used to run over people (and has here, during Bike Week).
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