Is the use of the cross in this Islamic advertisement offensive to you?

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I would agree with Dzhereimi that I find Muslim comments about our faith offensive…there is a former Catholic here who is Muslim now, but his attitude is still Christian.

Mohammed drew on ancient Christians praying several times in the day, but when his ideas were rejected by some Jews, he became inimical towards them.

I think the Muslims are so engrained to believe this or that about Christianity, that they are unable to comprehend factual knowledge of Christianity, and thus I have learned not to get too involved with their remarks or put down comments. Such behavior reinforces that their position of faith is not on solid ground.

God is Good and the source of Love. He is not calling us to destruction or enslavement but to a shared life of grace with Him. Muslims don’t even understand this.
 
Steel_Pinwheel said:
In this regard, Islam is no different from any other religion in the world (including Atheism), except for Christianity. Try to build a church any where you want in China, they won’t let you. Try to build a church anywhere you want in Israel, they won’t let you. Try to build a church anywhere you want in Saudi Arabia, they won’t let you. But, they can build a mosque or a temple anywhere they want in America, or in western Europe.
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Can’t build mosques “anywhere” in America. Manhattan and parts of Tenneessee are apparently off-limits, for starters.

But anyway, didn’t Christians come here specifically so that they could worship the way they wanted, because they couldn’t in other places? It’s nice they let non-Christians come and do the same. I think it’s high-time the rest of the world caught up with America on this point.
 
KathleenGee said:
I would agree with Dzhereimi that I find Muslim comments about our faith offensive…there is a former Catholic here who is Muslim now, but his attitude is still Christian.

Mohammed drew on ancient Christians praying several times in the day, but when his ideas were rejected by some Jews, he became inimical towards them.

I think the Muslims are so engrained to believe this or that about Christianity, that they are unable to comprehend factual knowledge of Christianity, and thus I have learned not to get too involved with their remarks or put down comments. Such behavior reinforces that their position of faith is not on solid ground.

God is Good and the source of Love. He is not calling us to destruction or enslavement but to a shared life of grace with Him. Muslims don’t even understand this.
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I’m going to pray for you again–someone has really spun a tale for you.
 
KathleenGee said:
I would agree with Dzhereimi that I find Muslim comments about our faith offensive…there is a former Catholic here who is Muslim now, but his attitude is still Christian.

Mohammed drew on ancient Christians praying several times in the day, but when his ideas were rejected by some Jews, he became inimical towards them.

I think the Muslims are so engrained to believe this or that about Christianity, that they are unable to comprehend factual knowledge of Christianity, and thus I have learned not to get too involved with their remarks or put down comments. Such behavior reinforces that their position of faith is not on solid ground.

God is Good and the source of Love. He is not calling us to destruction or enslavement but to a shared life of grace with Him. Muslims don’t even understand this.
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You are totally correct. Muslims believe in works only. They pray, they give alms and observe their holydays and fast. However, they do believe that if they say they are sorry that God will forgive them – but they believe that God is keeping a list of what they did. The good must outweigh the bad in the end. I have this from a pretty reliable source – a Sunni Muslim. However, he is not an Imam. But, he does not understand the grace concept at all – yet!
 
Iman (faith/belief) has three parts, in Islam:

(1) believing something in your heart
(2) declaring it with your tongue
(3) acting on it

Doing an act without correct faith or belief isn’t worth anything.

Righteous deeds, what you call “works” aren’t sufficient without faith. They should be a proof of faith. Without faith they’re empty and useless and won’t save anyone.
 
Sr Amy,

Your old attitude has again reappeared and I see this in other muslims and see it as a failure of your beliefs.

There are people here who don’t realize you have been told many things about Catholicism and Christianity in general and you mentally cannot grasp the depth and transcendence…

Ours is not a religion of a book or one based on enslavement, debasement of other beliefs, and outward perception of a supposed religion within. Religious garb is not a reflection of true holiness, and it cannot hide a proud and hateful heart.

And debasing or insulting others only comes back on yourself.

Ours is a living relationship with the Living God…and cooperating with His grace…a living and life giving relationship, and recognition of the dignity of all human beings.

Pray for yourself.

The miracles Christ performed the most was the healing from blindness…reflecting the blindness of heart and soul. It is Christ Himself Who is repeatedly drawing you here to CAF…

God bless and guide you !
 
Jharek, can you explain what you mean by that last sentence? Is there something comparable to jizya in Christian history?
 
Aydan said:
I saw this advertisement for an Islamic lecturer about the crucifixion of Jesus given by an ex Christian who converted to Islam. I found this picture to be very offensive to me as a Catholic because the Quran explicitly denies the crucifixion. I found the use of the cross in this case very unsettling does anyone else here feel that way or is it just me?
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No, it doesn’t offend me. I can think of few things that would offend me less.

ETA - I know a number of Jews who get twisted at the use of the term “judeo-christian” which was seen several times in this discussion.
 
KathleenGee said:
Sr Amy,

Your old attitude has again reappeared and I see this in other muslims and see it as a failure of your beliefs.

There are people here who don’t realize you have been told many things about Catholicism and Christianity in general and you mentally cannot grasp the depth and transcendence…

Ours is not a religion of a book or one based on enslavement, debasement of other beliefs, and outward perception of a supposed religion within. Religious garb is not a reflection of true holiness, and it cannot hide a proud and hateful heart.

And debasing or insulting others only comes back on yourself.

Ours is a living relationship with the Living God…and cooperating with His grace…a living and life giving relationship, and recognition of the dignity of all human beings.

Pray for yourself.

The miracles Christ performed the most was the healing from blindness…reflecting the blindness of heart and soul. It is Christ Himself Who is repeatedly drawing you here to CAF…

God bless and guide you !
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Kathleen,

I am not sure how to put this, but this post seems to be rather a matter of the pot calling the kettle black. Given the very odd things you tend to say about non-Catholic faiths, it isn’t surprising that someone has suggested that they are off in left field.
 
KathleenGee said:
Sr Amy,

Your old attitude has again reappeared and I see this in other muslims and see it as a failure of your beliefs.

There are people here who don’t realize you have been told many things about Catholicism and Christianity in general and you mentally cannot grasp the depth and transcendence…

Ours is not a religion of a book or one based on enslavement, debasement of other beliefs, and outward perception of a supposed religion within. Religious garb is not a reflection of true holiness, and it cannot hide a proud and hateful heart.

And debasing or insulting others only comes back on yourself.

Ours is a living relationship with the Living God…and cooperating with His grace…a living and life giving relationship, and recognition of the dignity of all human beings.

Pray for yourself.

The miracles Christ performed the most was the healing from blindness…reflecting the blindness of heart and soul. It is Christ Himself Who is repeatedly drawing you here to CAF…

God bless and guide you !
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To the contrary–I haven’t been told much at all about Christianity or Catholicism. Note that I confine my discussions to Islam, usually, instead of trying to discuss Christianity. But you insist–and really, this is very interesting to me–that I just don’t understand. It’s a convenient excuse, to insist that I don’t understand, simply because I don’t believe.

I believe it’s possible to understand a point of view without adopting it or believing it. Not sure why that’s difficult for you. But I have noticed you’ve made several (and this post makes a few more) very clear mistakes in understanding about Islam. I think you’re capable of understanding it, but I don’t think that you do.

And what I’m most interested to know is why do you think it’s insulting for me to say that I’m going to pray for you? I really think someone’s been lying to you about Islam, so I’ll be praying that God guides you to the truth.

You find that insulting?
 
Did you just agree with me by disagreeing with me? 👍

Thanks for clarifying a statement I made in haste.

I’ll point out that there’s bigotry amongst many faiths–directed not exclusively to Catholics. But for the most part, people are free to practice their religions, or even to not practice religion. It’s a good thing about America, I think.
 
BlueGoat…

As the Vatican has said, as well as other non-Muslims, dialogue with Islam is very difficult and oftentimes does not produce any fruit.

There is also the issue of Muslims being the definers of Christianity when they are outside our faith. It is wrong to defame and mock other peoples’ religion. You see Muslims starting riots over the defamation of Mohammed.

I have witnessed Muslims coming here, some posing as a single individual when in fact they are groups. We had a thread on Islam and the crucifixion of Christ, and after the discussion ended after Catholics spending much time on it, the next post would come up and ask the same questions all over again.

There is an article on the internet advising Muslims how to talk about religion without insulting them. It is good advice Muslims should follow when coming here.

But when Muslims are repeatedly given explanation and after explanation, and then to make comments as follow up that Jesus never died…it is at the point of blasphemy.

There is a difference between saying I don’t understand to saying Christ wasn’t crucified or never died. It is wrong for Muslims to come here to blaspheme the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Before entering CAF, a Muslim should pray for themselves and discern what their motives really are…and then act accordingly to directives given by their Muslim leadership when beginning here or any other site.

Muslims cannot define who and what Christianity is because they do not understand it. They are no authority on Christianity…just as we are no authority on the Koran.
 
KathleenGee said:
BlueGoat…

As the Vatican has said, as well as other non-Muslims, dialogue with Islam is very difficult and oftentimes does not produce any fruit.

There is also the issue of Muslims being the definers of Christianity when they are outside our faith. It is wrong to defame and mock other peoples’ religion. You see Muslims starting riots over the defamation of Mohammed.

I have witnessed Muslims coming here, some posing as a single individual when in fact they are groups. We had a thread on Islam and the crucifixion of Christ, and after the discussion ended after Catholics spending much time on it, the next post would come up and ask the same questions all over again.

There is an article on the internet advising Muslims how to talk about religion without insulting them. It is good advice Muslims should follow when coming here.

But when Muslims are repeatedly given explanation and after explanation, and then to make comments as follow up that Jesus never died…it is at the point of blasphemy.

There is a difference between saying I don’t understand to saying Christ wasn’t crucified or never died. It is wrong for Muslims to come here to blaspheme the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Before entering CAF, a Muslim should pray for themselves and discern what their motives really are…and then act accordingly to directives given by their Muslim leadership when beginning here or any other site.

Muslims cannot define who and what Christianity is because they do not understand it. They are no authority on Christianity…just as we are no authority on the Koran.
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Kathleen,

Sister Amy simply commented that your understanding of Islam seemed inaccurate, which it did. She has also commented on what her belief is about Christ, which seems to distress you. I am not sure why, as she hasn’t even tried to argue the point, and it was helpful in terms of the discussion. She also seems to have a pretty reasonable grasp of Christianity, and asks sensible questions when she doesn’t.

Why you would go off on other Muslims who do rude things I don’t know. I hope you realize that there are Catholics who do the same things you describe.

You consistently tell non-Catholics, in other threads as well as this one, that they are unable to really understand Catholicism, even when they quote and discuss Catholic documents intelligently. You on the other hand seem to make many incorrect statements about non-Catholic belief, and complain when you are corrected, and seem to think people are being either pig-headed or stupid.

If you are so distressed by discussion of Islam, then don’t read threads about it. If you think non-Catholics can’t understand Catholicism (which is not the position of the Catholic Church) and that frustrates you, then don’t bother to talk to them.

If someone is going to pray for you, the thing to do is say thank-you, gracefully.
 
BlueGoat…

It is most probably that Sr Amy knows more about Christianity than I do Islam…as I said, there are those who come here and dispute other Muslims about what the Koran is about…it is hard to follow them.

I do not go on Muslim sites. I would not go on there to invalidate or deny or make claims as Islam does, that it knows what Christianity is and defines it for us.

The thread is about the cross advertisement, and subsequently the denial of the historical Jesus and His crucifixion and what His life, death and resurrection has meant for mankind. His crucifixion is essential…and it does work as a blasphemy against Who Christ is.

If you don’t think it is blasphemous to actively invalidate Christ’s death as such, that is your right. But for me it is deeply offensive.
 
KathleenGee said:
BlueGoat…

If you don’t think it is blasphemous to actively invalidate Christ’s death as such, that is your right. But for me it is deeply offensive.
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Then you ought not speak with non-Christians, especially on religious forums. They are particularly likely to post in “non-christian religion”.

I am surprised that you think anything can invalidate Christ’s death. I can assure you that Christ can handle it and loves them anyway.

You do realize that if others felt like that, every time a Christian spoke about Christ in public, every Jew, Muslim, and atheist would be deeply offended.
 
To a certain degree, Jharek…doesn’t a person as such have some sense of boundaries of what we hold as sacred???

About Islam from the link I shared, provides good guidelines for Muslims in setting down a framework in discussing religion with non-Muslims. After 4,000 posts, if unable to gain anything from Catholics, atleast they can learn from good principles from their own Muslim leadership in ‘what the Qu-ran says about interfaith dialogue in Islam’.

It goes both ways. Here is a start.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Didn’t Christianity “rewrite Truth” about God? Jews didn’t believe in the Trinity but Christianity came along and apparently rewrote God, no?

It is logical, therefore, to correct the mistakes of humans, no? 🙂
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So therefore it is acceptable for Muslims to further rewrite this and say Jesus never died but someone else died on the Cross for Him? :confused:

Proof that Jesus did not die on the Cross, please—BESIDES what the Quran says.:rolleyes:

And Christianity changed and fulfilled the law set down by the Jewish people. It was the
“logical” outcome of the Laws set down by Moses and others.
Jesus said “I have come to fulfill the Law.”
 
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