Is there any possiblity that Islam could be peaceful?

[Booklover]

What to tell you Booklover, I don’t know to what extent Canadian Thanksgiving is a religious vs. secular holiday. I do know in the USA of at least one mosque that has a thanksgiving meal at the mosque on the Friday after Thanksgiviing. As in many other religions, I suppose it takes all kinds. There are plenty of churches that don’t want to have anything with “satanic” Halloween. And I myself would not cry if Santa disappeared never to return again in order that I might truly celebrate Christ’s birth rather than Santa-mas.

You don’t get the point, do you? We are being shunned simply because these celebrations are non-Muslim, and therefore not acceptable to the Islamic god!

And as for your mention of the Thanksgiving dinner at the mosque, I wonder how long that would last if, God forbid, Muslims would ever become a majority!

Vickie

 

[Grace_Seeker]

You don’t get the point, do you? We are being shunned simply because these celebrations are non-Muslim, and therefore not acceptable to the Islamic god!

And as for your mention of the Thanksgiving dinner at the mosque, I wonder how long that would last if, God forbid, Muslims would ever become a majority!

Vickie

No, I don’t get it. I don’t get the fears you have.

What merciful God? One that believes that all Christians and Jews should be forced to convert to Islam or be killed??? This is not the same God I know!

Vickie

I also don’t find the God you think that Muslims believe in, to be the one that they actually do. That’s probably why I don’t get the fear you seem to have.

 

[manualman]

Is there such a possibility? OF COURSE THERE IS!!

Think it through. All humanity is basically good, but fallen. Therefore it is entirely possible that the people of Islam could undergo some sort of change in course that repudiates some of its more unsavory historic characteristics. If you would open your eyes, you might see that it is in fact in the middle of such a struggle today! So stop supporting the jihadis in promoting the idea that the only GOOD muslim is a violent one.

If you doubt that a major established religion can be diverted away from the principles and intentions of its founder, then how do you explain Martin Luther and what HE did? If the TRUE faith can be distorted from its original meaning, what makes you think a basically erroneous religion is immutable?

 

[GOP]

Christians need to ask themselves these questions:

Is there any possibility that “love and peace” can be offered by Satan?

I believe that the answer is ‘YES’.

On the other hand, is there any possibility at all that the Truth can be offered by Satan?

The answer to this is most definitely ‘NO’ because the Truth comes only from the Lord.

And so, this is my sincere advice to both Christians and non-Christians alike, myself included:

Do not search for “love and peace” above all else in your life because you can never be sure where it comes from.

However, when you search for the Truth, then you KNOW that it can only come from your Creator.

Look up Sura 9:5, the verse of the sword, which abrogates (naskh) all peaceful injunctions in the koran. In short jihad is obligatory for the Muslim against all non-believers of Islam, all Muslims must wage war against non-belivers.

 

[GOP]

That is empirically false. Muslims are not obligated to agree with your interpretation of the Qur’an, and as a matter of fact lots of Muslims who know the Qur’an quite well believe that it can be interpreted in a “peaceful” direction (I presume you mean in a manner that doesn’t necessitate warfare against non-Muslim governments that are not persecuting Islam or attacking Muslim countries; I have yet to encounter a Muslim pacifist although they are probably out there somewhere).

Edwin

You, my friend, have never read the koran.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

You, my friend, have never read the koran.

I have. And I have also read the Bible:

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34)

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)

As I said before, one can cherry-pick all sort of verses from either set of scriptures. As for the question of whether peace-loving Muslims exist, yes they do. I know several such individuals, personally.

 

[EphelDuath]

ramizq1.sitesled.com/violence.html

Islam is not a fundamentally violent religion.

Please remember, Jesus was merciful to the Gentiles, as well. Even following a “wrong” religion doesn’t imply that you should treat them as enemies.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Please remember, Jesus was merciful to the Gentiles, as well. Even following a “wrong” religion doesn’t imply that you should treat them as enemies.

Oh, Pleeezzze!

I thought that Muslims were the modern day equivalent to us Christians of what the Samaritans were to the Jews. Surely if there is anyone we want to not be nice-nice with, it would be these modern-day Samaritans.

 

[Hebrews_4_12]

What merciful God? One that believes that all Christians and Jews should be forced to convert to Islam or be killed??? This is not the same God I know!

Vickie

Well the Roman Catholic Church says it is the same God. I quote again from CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

I as a Baptist can disagree and show the obvious falsity of the beliefs of a Muslim from the scriptures (ie Christ’s Deity, Death and Resurrection which are true and accepted by faithful Christians and are seen as false in the Muslim worldview), but you as a Roman Catholic are bound by the CCC and are not free to believe they worship a false or different god. So you may want to think about why Rome believes it can suspend the law of non-contradiction and declare those who worship a different god as actually worshipers of the one True God of the Scriptures.

Compare the QURAN
[4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

With the Word of God
Matthew 27
31After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him…
38Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left…
50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

1 Corinthians 15
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

These views are quite incompatible and one is obviously wrong, and it is not the The Word of God who can not lie!

 

[dranzal]

Well the Roman Catholic Church says it is the same God. I quote again from CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION

I as a Baptist can disagree and show the obvious falsity of the beliefs of a Muslim from the scriptures (ie Christ’s Deity, Death and Resurrection which are true and accepted by faithful Christians and are seen as false in the Muslim worldview), but you as a Roman Catholic are bound by the CCC and are not free to believe they worship a false or different god. So you may want to think about why Rome believes it can suspend the law of non-contradiction and declare those who worship a different god as actually worshipers of the one True God of the Scriptures.

And Paul stated in Acts 17:23 For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you

There seem to be two camps on this.

1. The first follows St. Paul’s lead and says if someone worships one god who they acknowledge to be the All-powerful Creator and since we believe there is indeed only One God, they must also be worshipping The One God. This same camp would say that Muslims are ignorant of the fullness of truth and their image of God is very skewed, but still the One Creator of all.
2. The second camp looks at the attributes of the professed deity and compares them with the attributes of our God and concludes that they must not be the same.

Who is correct? Only God knows. Do the current Muslims believe they are worshipping the One God Creator of all, the God of Abraham? They do believe so. That is what they profess. From God’s perspective (dare I presume) that may be the God’s way of drawing good (muslims worshipping Him) out of evil (Mohammed inventing the Quran after being visited by, perhaps, a demon calling himself Gabriel). This is an oversimplification, but we do not know the mind of God. We simply don’t know the extent of God’s mercy.

Again, for clarification. Muslims believe in the creator of this world, which happens to be One. So whoever believes that one creator created this world, is worshipping the only God THEORETICALLY (not theologically). The Church says we worship the same God because Islam is monotheistic, but the Church never says we worship the same God theologically, and the Church never said Muhammad is a prophet from God. Remember, EVEN SATAN believes in the God of Abraham. So if the Church says Muslims worship the God of Abraham, I don’t take it as an agreement on Muhammad being a prophet of God or Islam being truthful, because the Church admits as well that even Satan knows the Only God, the God of Abraham. Muhammed, inspired (perhaps) by satan, hijacked God and invented Islam. This is between God and Muhammed. Current devout Muslims are, in good faith, worshipping a misguided view of the One God.

---

Some of the above I took from a discourse I had with another non-Catholic Christian.

As to the OP question, some individual Muslims may be peaceful just as some Christians may engage in violence (ex. at abortion clinics). This does not necessarily reflect the doctrines of their “religions”.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

ramizq1.sitesled.com/violence.html

Islam is not a fundamentally violent religion.

Tell it to the millions of dhimmis who were killed or enslaved.

booklover and vickie - to name a mosque after Khalid bin al-Walid is very provocative since that scoundrel was one of the worst aggressors in Islam. He was one of the most ‘successful’ generals of Muhammad and Abu Bakr and caused a lot of kafir deaths.

Of course, Muslims are proud of the way Khalid bin al-Walid spread Islam - which was by the sword.

 

[Contarini]

There seem to be two camps on this.

1. The first follows St. Paul’s lead and says if someone worships one god who they acknowledge to be the All-powerful Creator and since we believe there is indeed only One God, they must also be worshipping The One God. This same camp would say that Muslims are ignorant of the fullness of truth and their image of God is very skewed, but still the One Creator of all.
2. The second camp looks at the attributes of the professed deity and compares them with the attributes of our God and concludes that they must not be the same.

First of all, the arguments of the “second camp” are highly selective and ignore the huge debates among Christians over how to understand God’s attributes. In the second place, the whole method is inappropriate if one takes a Thomistic approach–we do not know “what” God is but only “that” He is. We know Him imperfectly from His effects. The “five ways” (which I have just been teaching) all end by saying “and this all call God.” In other words, “God” is a name for the Ultimate Reality behind the universe. Disagreements over the specific attributes we ascribe to God do not constitute “worshiping a different God.”

Who is correct? Only God knows.

Well no–the first camp is correct and there are many good arguments to prove this!

Again, for clarification. Muslims believe in the creator of this world, which happens to be One.

There’s no “happens to be” about it. That’s the basic theological mistake you are making.

So whoever believes that one creator created this world, is worshipping the only God THEORETICALLY

(not theologically). The Church says we worship the same God because Islam is monotheistic, but the Church never says we worship the same God theologically,

What is this distinction between “theoretically” and “theologically”? You have not defined it, and it seems odd. Are you making a distinction between what can be known by reason and what is known only by revelation–i.e., Muslims worship the God pointed to by reason but not the God of Christian revelation? I could buy that to some extent.

and the Church never said Muhammad is a prophet from God.

Well, of course not.

Remember, EVEN SATAN believes in the God of Abraham.

No, Satan believes that God exists. Satan does not believe in God (in Latin: credit Deum esse, non autem credit in Deum).

Edwin

 

[pismopal]

The thread title’ " is there any possibility?" is a little iffy but we hope and pray that the answer may be “yes” at some point but for now the answer is given by Muslims. Muslims are at war with their neighbors worldwide, with Christians, Budhists and Jews being attacked. One cannot claim that there are “many” Muslims who are non violent but not present as evidence any large group of Muslims who condemn violence publically. The real issue is not what their book commands, although it most certainly does direct violence toward non believers and defines the “innocent”, who are not to be harmed, as Muslims only. The real issue is the behavior of Muslims toward their neighbors. The picture is not good and there is no way to make the picture pretty and be honest at the same time.
Would you defend the violent actions of Christians against non Christians? Would you defend the above even if the Bible directed it?

 

[inJESUS]

What is this distinction between “theoretically” and “theologically”?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

It is not a question of a possibility; it is a fact that Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful and promote peace.

It is a different thing that some Muslims have misunderstood teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and have become violent.

They should revert to the correct and peaceful teachings.

Thanks

 

[Verisimilitude]

I think it means this:

 

[Montalban]

I think he meant can Satan *offer *love and peace, not that he can truly give it. Muslims most surely don’t believe he can anyway, only God is The Loving (Al-Wadud) and The Peace (As-Salam).

That’s why Al-lah is able to offer love, but not really give it

 

[hamba2han]

The reason why seeking the Truth is infinitely better than seeking merely ‘love & peace’ above all else in one’s life:

There is such a thing as artificial peace… but there is no such thing as ‘artificial truth’.

There is such a thing as conditional love… but there is no such thing as ‘conditional truth’.

Not that conditional love is a bad thing for after all, God Himself does indeed love His creations conditionally.

However, the thing to remember is that what God hates, Satan loves.

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi

It is not a question of a possibility; it is a fact that Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful and promote peace.

It is a different thing that some Muslims have misunderstood teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and have become violent.

They should revert to the correct and peaceful teachings.

Thanks

Welcome back Paarsurrey

 

[Montalban]

Welcome back Paarsurrey

Some people never change.