Is there any room for individuality?

[gogogirl]

I am just curious. I have been reading through Catholic Answers forums because I am a recent convert but I am considering leaving the faith already. I went through RCIA and everything but I just don’t feel like I was prepared for all of this. I guess I am just a bit concerned by all the rules and regulations and such. I have pretty much decided that I am going straight to hell because I don’t go to confession often enough and I can’t seem to follow the rules no matter how hard I try. The whole prospect scares me. I understand most of the teachings but they seem to leave little room for interpretation and individuality, especially the way they are presented on this board. I have read that I shouldn’t do anything in a church of another faith. I read that we should not be curious about other religions or faiths. How can we be truly ecumenical if we don’t understand their view points? I have read time and time again, that I should pray and offer everything up to God. What role do I have in any of this? I guess I am just really confused and feel like I have been duped. I should have just been told that I am going straight to hell so don’t bother joining the Church because you will never be able to live up to any of the rules and regulations that they set forth.

 

[gardenswithkids]

The Bible reminds us a just man falls several times a day. (I can’t remember the verse or exact number it says the just man falls.) While God and the Catholic Church hold high standards, Jesus recognizes we’d fail, and He therefore instituted the sacrament of reconciliation. Don’t be discouraged. Just get up when you fall and pray for more grace. It helps us develop the virtue of humility when we realize we can’t rely on ourselves.

There is certainly room for individuality. Just examine the lives of the saints to see the unique individuals whom God made holy. Pray that God reveal His plan for you to make you holy.

This forum offers suggestions and support for us as we all struggle with the same rules and regulations. The great thing is as we grow in holiness, (which will happen when we persevere), God makes us stronger so we struggle less.

 

[JaneFrances]

Do not despair!

Catholic Answers is a wonderful source for Catholic doctrine and opinion. It is your job to know the difference. That’s what being a responsible Christian is about. If there is something about Catholicism that rubs you the wrong way, then I would suggest you 1) stop and pray for discernment and guidance from the Holy Spirit and 2) read some REAL Catholic doctrine and let the opinions fade into the background.

Get your hands on some writings from Pope John Paul II. Truely, if you are at an impass such that you can not see the forest for the trees, he will focus your glance.

Not going to confession as often as you should is not a reason to leave the Church, it is the best reason to stay. All of us sin more than we have the capacity to even comprehend. That’s why Jesus came. Feeling duped is not a reason to leave the Church either. . .Can you imagine how duped and foolish the first Christians felt when they saw (or heard about) the man they thought was God hanging dead on a Cross? This sense of confusion and desparation is a mark of every Christian’s walk. It is how we respond to God’s grace in overcoming those weaknesses that proves our true discipleship.

None of us are headed straight for hell apart from our choice to be there. . .All of who are destined for heaven are masterpieces of God’s mercy.

 

[gogogirl]

gardenswithkids:

Don’t be discouraged. Just get up when you fall and pray for more grace.

I do this all the time and it seems like the more I fall, the worse I feel. Why try at all?

gardenswithkids:

There is certainly room for individuality. Just examine the lives of the saints to see the unique individuals whom God made holy. Pray that God reveal His plan for you to make you holy. .

I honestly don’t think God has a plan for me. I just feel plain hopeless and duped. Your post just goes to further my feelings of hopelessness. You have not given me any concrete answers to my original query. You have again told me to pray. If this is all it takes, then I should already have my answer. Oh, I have looked at the lives of the saints. I know St. Augustine had an illegitamite bastard child and many of the other saints did a lot of stuff that they were forgiven for after they confessed and joined the church. T

gardenswithkids:

This forum offers suggestions and support for us as we all struggle with the same rules and regulations. The great thing is as we grow in holiness, (which will happen when we persevere), God makes us stronger so we struggle less.

I honestly feel that I have grown evil since joining the church. I think it is horrible to just excuse my failings because I can just go to confession. This seems to defeat the whole purpose. I almost feel like I can do anything now because I can go to confession, or at least that is the way it is presented. Thanks for the response but it leads me to believe that the Church may not be for me.

 

[Lorarose]

At times I have gotten a similar feeling after talking with other catholics on some forums.
You have to understand that you are talking to people who are only sharing THEIR opinion. They are giving you their own personal spin - their own personal interpretation.

I agree with the poster who suggested you spend some time with the writings with Pope John Paul II. If you do this you will receive a very well balanced view of catholicism.

The “rules” are not meant to cause anxiety. The sacrament of reconciliation is meant to give you peace and joy.

God loves you. He doesn’t want you to despair or to fret.
Maybe taking a break from the boards and seeking out advice from a trusted priest may be in order?

 

[BrianH]

I would, relax a little. You seem to be in a state of almost panic, and I recognize it is hard to read someone on the net. It appears to stem from your perceived, which could be accurate, ability to live up to the “rules and regulations”. For what it is worth, talk to as many people in person as possible, a clergy person, friends, family, I do not even know you and I am worried about you
If possible, devert your attention to helping others for awhile, not to offfend if you are already doing this, and see what happens. Decisions take time. best of luck.
BrianH

 

[gogogirl]

BrianH:

I would, relax a little. You seem to be in a state of almost panic, and I recognize it is hard to read someone on the net. It appears to stem from your perceived, which could be accurate, ability to live up to the “rules and regulations”. For what it is worth, talk to as many people in person as possible, a clergy person, friends, family, I do not even know you and I am worried about you
If possible, devert your attention to helping others for awhile, not to offfend if you are already doing this, and see what happens. Decisions take time. best of luck.
BrianH

I am most certainly not in a state of panic. I am just making a last ditch effort to understand the Church before walking away. I have read numerous books and talked to numerous people. I even have a dear friend that is an ex-monk. The priest at my parish is not approachable. I tried to seek out his help while going through RCIA and he was of no help. I am not sure why I joined in the first place. I guess the other problem I am having is how in the world can so many Catholics be so noncommital about the state of their souls. My soul is very tarnished and no amount of confession is going to clean it. I usually feel worse after confession because I always leave things out. Should I write down all of my transgressions on a piece of paper so as to not forget them? I realize that all of the things on this forum are a matter of opinion but some of the responses being posted in the Apologetics forums by priests are enough to scare the bejeezus out of people. I don’t know how many times I have had people tell me that I have received a watered down version of the teachings. If what I am getting is watered down, then I would hate to see what full strength looks like.

 

[BrianH]

I am glad you are not panicked…wouldn’t walking away make you feel more guilty? Or do you think you would be blissful? It just seems like a person who is…so serious about getting everything right…would not be a good person to just ditch it all and find something else that makes you feel less guilty…i dont know…I think I will let the Catholics help you…do not take this wrong…I am a non-catholic and thus unqualified to offer sound advice to a Catholic…but I would find a Bible and look up mercy and forgiveness and read read read. I will shut up now.
BrianH

 

[JCPhoenix]

Be very careful that what you are dealing with is not scrupulosity–the belief that everything is a sin.

Regarding confession: The Church requires confession ONCE per year and the reception of the Eucharist ONCE per year…during Lent/Easter season.

You are also required to go to confession, if you care for you soul, if you have committed a mortal sin. That’s another topic.

Keep in mind…we all sin. We may sin and not realize that it is a grave matter…and then later learn that it WAS a grave matter. But if we were misinformed, or didn’t know, then the required KNOWLEDGE that somethig was a grave sin was not present…so we are able to be quickly forgiven.

Don’t get tied up in rules/regulations because this is NOT what the Catholic Church is about. Yes, there is a lot to know, but NO ONE knows everything. Even the Pope likely committs mortal sin…hopefully his is sorry and goes to confession.

I have actually gone to confession not feeling sorry and expressed this to the priest. This is the grace of the sacrament…once I told him that I was not sorry…BOOM! Right between the eyes. And I cried and had to admit I was sorry.

We are all a bunch of sinners, and don’t let any self-righteous posters convince you otherwise. We’re all on the same path you are, and for those of us who are Catholic…we’s sometimes as confused as you are.

Keep in mind also that leaving the Church will not change anything. The truth is the truth is the truth. You said you recently completed RCIA.

Hmmm…think about that.

Who might be upset that you are seeking to follow God’s will? Who might want to whisper some not-so-sweet-nothings into your spiritual ears to make you doubt the path you have chosen?

You are dealing with spiritual warfare my dear. Welcome to the club.

Keep reading. Keep praying. I’m going to give you a link to an order where you can post prayers. Actually, if you complete a search for cloistered sisters, you will find many web links and you can request prayers from them…and I can tellyou from experience that you will experience the grace of God as long as you are open to his grace.

Be a sponge…you are so close to God right now that you can’t even see him.

Regarding thinking that God does not have a plan for you. I recently went through a guided discussion on paths to holiness…we watched a video and the priest in this DVD discussed this issue. He said we are like peopel who have our faces up against a huge oil painting or mural.

So…go up to a picture in your home, or online…or somewhere. Place your hands to the side of your eyes and block out everythign else. Look at what’ sin front of you…a blob of red…a black line…a swipe of yellow, some blue…and nothing else. Welcome to a representation of your life.

Now step back. See that the small point you saw was just a portion of the painting, like maybe a hat on a child. Now look at the rest and see the whole picture. We don’t get to see the whole picture while we are here…we have to wait and just be content with the blob that is our lives and trust that it is part of something far greater than ourselves.

Myself…I’m actually just the little dot on the bottom right corner. I think there must be a line linking you and me and all the others on this thread.

 

[JCPhoenix]

The link!

www.bellweatheromaha.org

Look for the prayer requests link and post a prayer. Sometimes they respond.

God bless!

 

[JaneFrances]

gogogirl:

I am most certainly not in a state of panic. I am just making a last ditch effort to understand the Church before walking away. I have read numerous books and talked to numerous people. I even have a dear friend that is an ex-monk. The priest at my parish is not approachable. I tried to seek out his help while going through RCIA and he was of no help. I am not sure why I joined in the first place. I guess the other problem I am having is how in the world can so many Catholics be so noncommital about the state of their souls. My soul is very tarnished and no amount of confession is going to clean it. I usually feel worse after confession because I always leave things out. Should I write down all of my transgressions on a piece of paper so as to not forget them? I realize that all of the things on this forum are a matter of opinion but some of the responses being posted in the Apologetics forums by priests are enough to scare the bejeezus out of people. I don’t know how many times I have had people tell me that I have received a watered down version of the teachings. If what I am getting is watered down, then I would hate to see what full strength looks like.

All our souls are tarnished. And one drop of God’s grace is enough to save the whole human race. Jesus Christ tells us “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” (Matthew 7:7). Our feeble attempts at contrition, confession, and penance are not how we go about “cleaning” our own souls. Instead, the Sacrament of Reconciliation is us humbly standing at the door and knocking so hard that sometimes it hurts. God’s grace will do the cleaning.

Do you intentionally leave sins out during Confession? When you make your Act of Contrition, are you heartily sorry for ALL your sins or just those you remembered? Listen carefully next time you go to Confesssion. If you are truely repentent of your sins and you have done your best to confess those that you remember, God forgives you. It’s that plain. It’s that simple. And it’s all a gift that you will never, ever deserve. Don’t suffer the impossible.

And as for your fear of full-strength Catholicism. . .Sometimes medicine in small doses is enough to cause more problems than it cures. Do not fear the real stuff.

 

[montanaman]

You said “No amount of Confession can blot out your transgressions,” or something to that effect. That’s poor theology. It doesn’t matter what you “feel.” Once you’ve confessed, you’re forgiven. If it was a sincere confession, you have nothing to worry about. Period.

Scrupulosity means you’re hanging on to something. Thinking you’re such an unbelievable sinner, an UNFORGIVEABLE sinner, is a drug, and it’s related to pride.

Now, if you’re a recent convert, you might have thought becoming Catholic was some kind of magical elixer that would authomatically make you an impeccable person. Not so. Spiritual warfare is a real thing, and we all suffer it in degrees. Unless you’ve got the stigmata or demons are beating you to a pulp, I don’t believe you’re experiencing anything that anyone else hasn’t. I don’t say this to be mean, but for perspective.

Did you became Catholic for some emotional reason? If it was purely emotional, then well, you’re going to have a hard time with it. But, if you knew what the Church actually taught about repentance, sin, confession, etc., you wouldn’t be saying things like you did above.

Relax. You’re not the devil. You’re a sinner. If you have a problem with being a sinner, you’ve got the wrong idea about Catholicism. We have to avoid sin, but giving in to despair is a form of self-absorbtion. It takes years of walking the walk, trying, failing, picking yourself up and walking on to figure this all out. Like I said, it’s no magic elixer.

 

[JimG]

What rules? I go for most of my life without thinking about rules.

Now, when I was working for the government, then I thought every day about the rules. (Although, contrary to the belief of some bureaucrats, the rules are always a means, never an end.)

Which makes me think: The rules and regs associated with being a U.S. citizen: the laws, statues, codes of federal regulations, (CFR’s, as they are colloquially known), along with state, local, and county laws–all these far exceed any rules of the Catholic Church. If following the rules of the United States doesn’t drive you crazy, following those of the Catholic Church should be a cinch.

 

[BlindSheep]

gogogirl:

I have read that I shouldn’t do anything in a church of another faith. I read that we should not be curious about other religions or faiths.

This jumped out at me. I don’t know everything there is to know about the Church by any means, but this sounds incorrect. As far as I know, these are not sins (if I’m wrong, someone correct me!)

 

[gogogirl]

montanaman:

Scrupulosity means you’re hanging on to something. Thinking you’re such an unbelievable sinner, an UNFORGIVEABLE sinner, is a drug, and it’s related to pride. .

I fail to see how recognizing that I am a worthless piece of **** is related to pride. Am I not acknowledging that nothing I do is worthy of God. I thought having too much pride meant that you weren’t willing to admit your failings or weakness.

montanaman:

Now, if you’re a recent convert, you might have thought becoming Catholic was some kind of magical elixer that would authomatically make you an impeccable person. Not so. Spiritual warfare is a real thing, and we all suffer it in degrees. Unless you’ve got the stigmata or demons are beating you to a pulp, I don’t believe you’re experiencing anything that anyone else hasn’t. I don’t say this to be mean, but for perspective…

No, I was actually joining the Church for all the right reasons. I had spent many years studying and reading about Catholicism. I went to a private Catholic university on a full tuition scholarship and took several classes related to Catholic theology. Before I got married, I went through all the necessary prep so my husband could have a sacramental marriage. I supported him 150%. Before I joined, people (other Catholics) were very different. I feel that they oversimplified the teachings and presented them differently in order to lure people in. Since I have joined, people in the church have become malicious and rude. It is almost if the Catholic Church is one big cult. Be nice until they get you in and then show them what it is really all about. I spent over 6 years studying and researching. You can only read so much without consulting actual people. After all, does the average person have a theology or philosophy degree in order to understand and interpret all these rules.

montanaman:

Did you became Catholic for some emotional reason? If it was purely emotional, then well, you’re going to have a hard time with it. But, if you knew what the Church actually taught about repentance, sin, confession, etc., you wouldn’t be saying things like you did above…

My reasons for joining were purely practical. The part about sin, repentance, confession was glossed over in RCIA. I guess this was done so that I would join. I did take several theology and philosophy courses in college but they only talk about these things in theory. Theory and reality are two totally different things. When I was in college, I was approaching my courses with curiosity only. I never had any intention of joining the church until many years later. I guess I should have stuck with my first impression.

montanaman:

Relax. You’re not the devil. You’re a sinner. If you have a problem with being a sinner, you’ve got the wrong idea about Catholicism. We have to avoid sin, but giving in to despair is a form of self-absorbtion. It takes years of walking the walk, trying, failing, picking yourself up and walking on to figure this all out. Like I said, it’s no magic elixer.

I guess I find it difficult to avoid sin. If I were to avoid sin, then I guess I shouldn’t wake up in the morning. I can’t wake up in the morning and be all perky and thankful and just offer my day up to God. I guess I will give up my free will and let the church and my husband think for me.

 

[montanaman]

Like I said, just relax. Pray, but in your prayer don’t worry about “saying” anything. Just be silent. Listen. Don’t expect verbal messages or answers. You’re in the grip of despair right now. As one who’s been there, I can tell you it doesn’t last if you learn to let go of all the b.s.

 

[JaneFrances]

Wow, seriously Gogo, if you truly believe that believing you are a worthless piece of **** is a good thing, then you have a different version of Christianity than any I’ve been exposed to.

First, if you really do think you are nothing but a worthless piece of ****, then you are indeed filled with pride. You are being prideful because you seem to think you know better than God who you are. You think that you are worthless. He thinks that you are worth His Son.

Thinking that you are a worthless piece of **** isn’t being humble. Humility is about realizing that everything good about you is from God. Go to the first chapter of the gospel of Luke. Read Mary’s Magnificat. That’s real humility. She proclaims the greatness of God for all the good he has done for her. She claims to be a magnification of God Himself! She doesn’t call herself a worthless piece of ****, but rather humbly bows low before her Lord and Savior with utter awe at his power in making her the mother of the Lord!

And from my perpsective, your present state of confusion and frustration with Catholicism is boiling down to your anger and disillusionment with the malicious and rude people you are encountering in the Church. This is a mark of absolutely any church on God’s green earth. I don’t think you will find one that is void of horrible sinners.

Really. . .Take a step back and try to re-evaluate why you are where you are based on what you know about the Catholic Church, not based on what you have come to realize about those of us who are here because we are horrible sinners.

 

[contemplative]

“We ought not to grow tired of doing little things
for the love of God, who regards not the greatness
of the work, but the love with which it is performed.”
… Brother Lawrence

Try reading Bro. Lawrence’s The Practice of the Presence of God at
www.practicegodspresence.com

I don’t feel the same way you do…perhaps in time you will change and see the great layers of richness in the Church…such freedom to run…such beauty. I pray you find the beauty of the Church. Ask God and He will help you see.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi Gogo!

If they aren’t mortal sins little sister then they are cleaned up by an Act of Contrition (or Confiteor) and the Eucharist. That’s what that “penitential rite” at the beginning of Mass is all about.

We’re ALL sinners GGG. It comes with the turf, but you don’t have to fear the way you do. The church is a hospital for us sinners, not a hotel for saints. No one grows up in the faith overnight. The path of Life takes a lifetime.

C’mon and walk with us. We’ll get there!
Pax tecum,

 

[gogogirl]

montanaman:

Like I said, just relax. Pray, but in your prayer don’t worry about “saying” anything. Just be silent. Listen. Don’t expect verbal messages or answers. You’re in the grip of despair right now. As one who’s been there, I can tell you it doesn’t last if you learn to let go of all the b.s.

Ok, but isn’t that just another form of meditation. I thought meditation was new age. I thought everything new age was evil. I saw a thread on here not too long ago about yoga and how we shouldn’t do yoga because it would lead us to the devil.