Is there anyone in Hell?

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The presuppositon that we don’t *know *if anyone is in hell or not relies on deathbed confessionals.

This is a rare thing indeed, because without Christ your whole life, ones heart becomes hardened. The very idea of salvation becomes a silly thought.

One cannot have their cake and eat it too.

Of course only God knows what is in ones heart, but it is safe to assume hell is populated.

Anyone recall Joseph Stalin’s final seconds?

Pointed to the ceiling with eyes full of fear and hatred (according to his daughter), and brought down what appeared to be a curse on his daughter and the people in the room…“the gesture was incomprehensible and full of menace…” said Svetlana.

Destined for the Kingdom of God?? I think not.
 
:Why mention the place and specify that it’s eternal if no one goes there?:

Because it’s a possibility. Anyone who finally rejects grace will be damned for all eternity. Hell is very real, and Scripture tells us about it precisely so that we won’t go there!

The Lord told Jonah to warn the Ninevites that they would be destroyed in forty days. But they weren’t, because they repented. Same with hell. If everyone repents, no one goes to hell. That may not seem very likely, but I don’t think there is any dogmatic basis for calling it heretical.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
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amarischuk:
Mrs. S,** please show me** where the CCC states that anyone is in hell (not that hell exists there is a not so subtle difference):
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. 1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: (many are called,few are choosen) “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” …

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#IV

But then again, the evolution of the doctrine of Hell is such that most biblical scholars view both heaven and hell as pagan interpolations in the Bible. …Satan is also of pagan origins and biblical scholars agree that the serpant in the garden or Satan in the book of Job has nothing to do with the modern concept of the devil.

discussion of limbo…whatever happened to THAT dogma?):/QUOTE]

Do we insert the word “might” so that it reads "the souls of those who might die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.”

Will the Gospels, where the Lord tell us of those who will be in hell (after all, they (some) have not been born yet) contradict the church? Hardly. Will the Church contradict the Gospels. I think not. So what is the meaning of both that will complement each other? Only that hell does exist, it is real, it is eternal damnation, it is not a lower level of Heaven, and that it will be occupied by some for all eternity.

As for your other comments, I will leave them to others to critique while I just shake my head.
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Gottle of Geer said:
## In brief, the Church’s teaching is, “Mind your own business” 🙂

There is no way to know the answer to your question as put - it is a question that is not going to be answered.

God knows, we don’t, and revelations are no evidence, because it is impossible completely to separate the seer’s POV, from what the seer has been shown; which is one of the reasons nothing is built by theologians on private revelations.

Some things are God’s business, not ours, which is why it is wrong to seek to know more than we can. To seek to know what God has reserved to Himself, is to commit the sin of curiosity, and to forget that what is revealed is enough for our salvation even if not for our desire to know.

Besides, if we don’t take care, we shall go to Hell - but it would be no comfort then to know that at least one person is there 🙂

If we sin, we shall be there - so it is of no concern to us who else might be.

Curiosity about who, if anyone, is in Hell, is a distraction from the fact of one’s own fitness for Hell. It promotes readiness to condemn others, blindness to our own faults, curiosity, and other vices. What matters here and now, is that one knows one deserves damnation, and that one does not need to be damned - “do not give us what we truly deserve…”; we pray thus, because God has not given us our deserts: if God were just, we would certainly be destroyed. But, “mercy triumphs over judgement”. ##
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Not to mention that it is a direct disobedience with Jesus’ command in the sermon on the mount
1 "Do not judge, so that you may not be judged.
Matt 7:1 (NRSV)
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Contarini said:
:Why mention the place and specify that it’s eternal if no one goes there?:

Because it’s a possibility. Anyone who finally rejects grace will be damned for all eternity. Hell is very real, and Scripture tells us about it precisely so that we won’t go there!
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Correct. A hell with nothing in it would be a superfluous, irrelevant hell.

Gerry 🙂
 
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davidv:
Not to mention that it is a direct disobedience with Jesus’ command in the sermon on the mount
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Are you saying that :

judging some one (saying they are in hell, for instance) is wrong - I agree that is wrong

is the same as :

accepting Jesus’ words that there are some who will occupy hell for eternity? (making a judgment to agree with the Lord and teach likewise)
 
’ A hell with nothing in it would be a superfluous, irrelevant hell.’

several of you have mentioned this, so i picked one to which to reply.

first, there is an obvious answer to this question - the lake of fire was created for satan and his followers. it won’t be empty, even if there aren’t any humans in it.

second - it would be a deterrent, even if satan and his followers were not occupying it. the existence of hell would cause many (like our friend malachi) to strive to live holier lives - if for a less than ideal reason.

third - nothing that God makes is superfluous or irrelevant - even if it has nothing to do with us people. He could make a place for people who become gods - and though that won’t happen, the place would still not be irrelevant. it would be His creation.

yes, i studied at east texas baptist university, as well as dallas baptist university, university of Texas, and golden gate seminary. i am a convert, and have a degree in theology from a baptist school. which gives me little insight into church fathers (i’ve had to play catch up), but a very in depth knowledge of the Bible.

yes, my brother is a jesuit. i honestly have no idea what they’ve taught him regarding hell, but i assume they’ve taught him what the church teaches.
 
robedwithlight posted: ‘There will be people who will definitely be in hell. What the Church teaches, I believe, is that we don’t know who is definitely going to hell. There is a wide difference between the two, jeff.’

i understand what you’re saying. but i have yet to see anything that the church teaches that says ‘there will definitely be people in hell.’

i think there will probably be people in hell.

i hope and pray that there will NOT be people in hell.

neither the Bible nor the church takes away that hope, or discourages that prayer.

someone mentioned stalin. sure, from what we see and understand, he would certainly seem hell-bound. as would hitler and mussolini and amon goeth (see schindler’s list for reference). i thank God that our eternal destination doesn’t depend on what we see and understand, but on His grace and tireless efforts to bring to redemption His children, whether they be stalin, hitler, or me.
 
I didn’t wade through, no that is the right term, I didn’t marathon swim through all the responses. I’m sure they are good, but for me it really is quite simply.

No One Goes to Hell = Do whatever you want, God’s full of Mercy.

If that doesn’t strike a person as wrong, then prayer is what they need, not interlectuall arguments.
 
i think that’s what everyone is afraid of. that ‘no one goes to hell’ means that everyone, in their current sinful state, goes to heaven.

this cannot happen. no one can go to heaven without becoming a saint. we all must become holy, as He is holy. we must be purified. that’s what purgatory is all about.

there will be no evil people in heaven. there will be redeemed people. the only question is - how many? how many will be redeemed, how many will be damned? i hope for 100% in the former, 0% in the latter.

but we don’t know.
 
Is there anyone in Hell?

Of course not!

Many people today do not believe there is such a thing as sin, so why a place of eternal rejection? (Don’t ask who is doing the rejecting.) There is ignorance: mistakes, choices, psychosis, natural instincts, aberrations, etc; all relative, of course, but not sinful. Anyway, who is to judge?

Many people, who would argue the irrelevance of sin, do not believe that the Mother of Jesus was sinless. From their point of view, however, we must surmise that they are sinless. And again, they can’t be sinners, for who is to judge? In fact, no hell, no devil, no accuser; “Innocent” by default!

God forbid, that one day, God, the Real, God, the True, will judge. That wouldn’t fit their take on the Good News as they would have it, which is that all things are a choice and choices are good, healthy, relative, existential things. The Good News of the Age is that God ( if He exists) is a soppy sentimentalist. :rolleyes:

For some, God doesn’t care. For others, He has other dimensions to worry about. That He might be just, and demand justice should be dismissed, because that is unmerciful. Mercy is not pure; mercy is not holy and mercy is not truthful and discerning. Mercy is mushy!

That Mercy may be a holy purifying fire could be frightening or worse threatening to our self-esteem. The Gospel for this age must conform to the age, itself; politically correct or OUT! Better no news than truly Good News. Better false compassion than true compassion.

What would be truly unmerciful is for God not to hold our sins up before us before it is too late.
 
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jeffreedy789:
incidentally, to answer clmowry’s (probably rhetorical) question -

hell is a real place. the lake of fire is real. it awaits anyone who is not ultimately saved. the question is not whether or not hell exists. it does.

anyone who is not redeemed from their sins will spend eternity separated from God.

the question is, will any people go there?

i hope not.
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Hi jeffreedy,
I agree with you. This is how I see things.
earth, kingdom of God and also the kingdom of heaven. Explain this later.
death to earth. paradise or hell
Jesus’s second coming.
sins cast aside.
judged on works. everyone as all on earth and in all of heaven are caught up in Jesus while new heavens and a new earth are made.
Those guilty to the lake of fire the rest into the Kingdom of God , the Holy Jerusalem down on earth.
Hell is a last chance where cleansing is done. Many of the parables talk about the kindgom of heaven being a sorting house , to hell or paradise, the third heaven.
Can you guess I am rushing. I hope you can understand this post.
summary. die go to hell or paradise
Hell to pay debts.
second coming caught up in Jesus as all believe bow and confess
judged on works. sorted lake of fire or kingdom of God on earth, the Holy Jerusalem.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
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Joanna:
The Good News of the Age is that God ( if He exists) is a soppy sentimentalist. :rolleyes:
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C.S. Lewis wrote in The Problem of Pain:
What would really satisfy us would be a God who said of anything we happened to like doing, "What does it matter as long as they are contented. We want, in fact, not so much a Father in Heaven but a grandfather in heaven- a senile benevolence, who, as they say, “liked to see young people enjoying themselves,” and whose plan for the universe was simply that it might be truly said at the end of each day, “a good time was had by all.” Not many people, I admit, would formulate a theology in precisely those terms: but a conception not very different lurks at the back of many minds.
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Oh right, I understand.

Our omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God created man knowing full well that some will choose eternal damnation without any real understanding of either ‘eternal’ or ‘damnation’. What a nice guy.

But more importantly, according to Catholic teaching we are not even born in a state of grace thanks to some dude and his rib who lived a miraculus 6000 years ago and yet managed to father all of humanity thought the problem of who excaptly their children married (other than their other children) has yet to be resolved.

And it is this grace, or lack of, which God freely bestows on us in quantities not specified which is the only way we can do good. But being omniscient you would think that he could not bother with all tis nonsense.

This is the same good who creates the devil knowing full well he will lead so many astray, or (from another thread) condemns to hell people for the horrific crime of (gasp) masterbation. Omnibenevolent, sure. How many people here would be condemn their own unrepentant children for that?

Or the God who, just for shoot and jiggles tells Abraham to sacrafice Isaac, or the bets on poor Job. Or even the God who commands the Israelites to massacre men, women, children, oxen and goats…but don’t worry, it’s okay because God said so.

I refuse to worship that God. A God who behaves like a spoilt child. A God who punishes for eternity people for temporal mistakes.

I am reminded of the passage in Arnold Lunn’s debate with GG Coulton when Lunn says that Coulton’s criticism is a moot point concerning the Catholic Church’s teaching on hell because Jesus said the same thing…the gate is narrow.

What we have is a bible full of anthropomorphism. This God doesn’t resemble the philosophical God of Aquinas or the God of Meister Eckhart, or Albert Magnus, or any but the most parochial of bigoted thinkers.

Adam
 
John W.:
Last night at RCIA one of the TEAM leaders stated that she didn’t believe anyone was in Hell because God is merciful. I stated that she sure is an optimist. 😃 What is the teaching of the Church on this? Thanks
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Not only do people go to hell, the majority of people go to hell if we are to believe the Word Of God. Jesus says that the road to hell is wide and ** well traveled ** and the path to heaven is narrow and lightly trod.

I know many liberals want to misinterpret that to mean there are many ways to hell and one way to heaven but that is not what Jesus said did He?

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling lest you find yourself on the road to hell. Judge only yourself and extend all benefit of the doubt to others. But do not be afraid to admonish the sinner and counsel the ignorant for the sins of omission lack charity as well. 😉

God Bless
 
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amarischuk:
Oh right, I understand.

Adam
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No, I don’t think you do understand. Neither do I.

I think you are angry that you are trying so hard to understand but find God incomprehensible. He chooses to speak to us through pitiable men acting out of their poverty. He gives us milk instead of meat. He suffers us to suffer. He withholds miracles that could satisfy our appetite and sleeps during our storms. He’s tardy when we’re waiting and insuperably at odds with our timetables.

You probably know and understand much more than I ever will. Seems I forget most of what I read not long after I read it. But, as far as you truly understanding, no, I don’t think you do. (Even if you were being sarcastic.) You don’t understand and neither do I; and that’s all right! That is if we can just let that be.

When I can, I stop trying to understand. We are, after all, reaching for God to make of Him just one more anthropomorphism (of a higher sort, of course.) He’s God and that places Him always beyond us, despite His immanence. How are we to truly understand, or else, how are we to feel like anything other than puppets on strings?

When I am at the end of my hostility, I look to miserable Job. He can catch anyone from plummeting into Hell, if Hell is where we end up when we refuse to let God be God. It’s only God who can ask, “Have you ever in your lifetime commanded the morning and shown the dawn its place,” or “Do you know about the birth of the mountain goats, watch for the birth pangs of the hinds, number the month that they must fulfill and fix the time of their bringing forth?” I know it’s not an answer. It’s actually just more questions, but, oh, what questions! Job 38-42 has the power to stop my soul in its tantrums and invite my disbelief to yet one more dance with its Maker.

For my doubts about Hell, I’ve only to look to men as they play at genocide. The holy can’t comprehend anyone choosing hell, but men have chosen to live there while even on this earth. Only God in His Mercy can warn us of such a place. Only that God of Mercy can forgive us and equipt us for a life of His making forever.

God may surround me with fools, but thank God He’ll suffer one more.
 
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amarischuk:
Oh right, I understand.

Adam
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No, I don’t think you do understand. Neither do I.

I think you are angry that you are trying so hard to understand but find God incomprehensible. He chooses to speak to us through pitiable men acting out of their poverty. He gives us milk instead of meat. He suffers us to suffer. He withholds miracles that could satisfy our appetite and sleeps during our storms. He’s tardy when we’re waiting and insuperably at odds with our timetables.

You probably know and understand much more than I ever will. Seems I forget most of what I read not long after I read it. But, as far as you truly understanding, no, I don’t think you do. (Even if you were being sarcastic.) You don’t understand and neither do I; and that’s all right! That is if we can just let that be.

When I can, I stop trying to understand. We are, after all, reaching for God to make of Him just one more anthropomorphism (of a higher sort, of course.) He’s God and that places Him always beyond us, despite His immanence. How are we to truly understand, or else, how are we to feel like anything other than puppets on strings?

When I am at the end of my hostility, I look to miserable Job. He can catch anyone from plummeting into Hell, if Hell is where we end up when we refuse to let God be God. It’s only God who can ask, “Have you ever in your lifetime commanded the morning and shown the dawn its place,” or “Do you know about the birth of the mountain goats, watch for the birth pangs of the hinds, number the month that they must fulfill and fix the time of their bringing forth?” I know it’s not an answer. It’s actually just more questions, but, oh, what questions! Job 38-42 has the power to stop my soul in its tantrums and invite my disbelief to yet one more dance with its Maker.

For my doubts about Hell, I’ve only to look to men as they play at genocide. The holy can’t comprehend anyone choosing hell, but men have chosen to live there while even on this earth. Only God in His Mercy can warn us of such a place. Only that God of Mercy can forgive us and equipt us for a life of His making forever.

God may surround me with fools, but thank God He’ll suffer one more.
 
If everyone went to heaven, heaven would be an eternal hell. Heaven would be filled with people who have no love for God nor for their fellow man.

Criminals and tyrants would reign with no restaints on them. It would be an eternity without mercy. The fear of hell puts retraints on bad behavior in this world. And hell itself retrains bad behavior in the next world.

It is of great consolation to know that unrepentant evil deeds done in this world are punished in the next world. And the good done in this world is rewarded in the next world. The inequities in this world are evened out in the next world.
 
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amarischuk:
Oh right, I understand.

Our omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God created man knowing full well that some will choose eternal damnation without any real understanding of either ‘eternal’ or ‘damnation’. What a nice guy.

But more importantly, according to Catholic teaching we are not even born in a state of grace thanks to some dude and his rib who lived a miraculus 6000 years ago and yet managed to father all of humanity thought the problem of who excaptly their children married (other than their other children) has yet to be resolved.

And it is this grace, or lack of, which God freely bestows on us in quantities not specified which is the only way we can do good. But being omniscient you would think that he could not bother with all tis nonsense.

This is the same good who creates the devil knowing full well he will lead so many astray, or (from another thread) condemns to hell people for the horrific crime of (gasp) masterbation. Omnibenevolent, sure. How many people here would be condemn their own unrepentant children for that?

Or the God who, just for shoot and jiggles tells Abraham to sacrafice Isaac, or the bets on poor Job. Or even the God who commands the Israelites to massacre men, women, children, oxen and goats…but don’t worry, it’s okay because God said so.

I refuse to worship that God. A God who behaves like a spoilt child. A God who punishes for eternity people for temporal mistakes.

I am reminded of the passage in Arnold Lunn’s debate with GG Coulton when Lunn says that Coulton’s criticism is a moot point concerning the Catholic Church’s teaching on hell because Jesus said the same thing…the gate is narrow.

What we have is a bible full of anthropomorphism. This God doesn’t resemble the philosophical God of Aquinas or the God of Meister Eckhart, or Albert Magnus, or any but the most parochial of bigoted thinkers.

Adam
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Who upset you to the point of insanity? If you refuse to worship God, that is not a temporal mistake. It will determine your eternity where God will then have nothing to do with you. While you still breath, He will lovingly accept your repentance.

In the meantime, please add either “non-believing” or “non-practicing” to your bio where it says Catholic. And quit insulting God.
 
For anyone who is confused, disturbed, annoyed or just plain ticked off by the claims on this thread that no one is in hell or even that hell doesn’t exist, I’d recommend you check in with some voices of sanity found on the *Rosary Life and Light * page, specifically these articles about the Last Things:
rosary-center.org/ll57n3.htm

And this tape series by theologian Scott Hahn called “Why The Hell”:
saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=220

All this snotty modernist psuedo-theology is no match for the Truth as once and for all delivered to the saints.
 
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