Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[fbl9]

hi whatis… that crucifix hanging in the church is a constant reminder of God’s love for me.it is how i was redeemed. how i became a son of God most high.the God who lives in me.i can say with St. Paul "For i determined not to know anything among you but except Jesus and him crucified"1Cor.2:2 the prayer of St Bede the venerable…Let me not O Lord be puffed up with wordly wisdom,that passes away, but grant me that love which never abates,that i may not choose to know anything among men,but Jesus and Him crucified.

…the very same one we strive to imitate as well

 

[whatisthetruth]

whatisthetruth

Kolbe, I am not a protestant, I am a Christian in God’s catholic “universal” church, which includes all Christians.

Kolbe

Hi whatis! You are certainly a Christian and a kind one at that.

Well thank you, so are you
But, as I’m sure you could guess, I believe God’s universal Church to be the Catholic (with a capital “C”) Church, rather than just the body of Christian believers.

I know

I believe that all Christians make up a body of believers, but not of the one visible true Church.

Again I know you do

i said

I believe what matters most is how, at least how I believe, God sees all of us.
I believe God sees two groups of people, the Christians and the non Christians

How God sees us is certainly the only view that matters. But I also believe that we are completely incapable of comprehending how God sees us. His divine vision is beyond our capabilities.

You are right.

That is why I said “I believe”

and not

“This is how God sees us”,** for that would be wrong**

Having said that, if He sees catholic with a capital “C” like in Roman Catholic, I am toast in hell.

I am not coming back to Roman Catholicism.

That is how strong I believe in we are all Christians, we all found Jesus, Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven AMEN

i said

I never new what the words to the song Amazing Grace meant until a couple years ago

I just saw the movie about that song recently. A wonderful story. I didn’t know the story behind that song either.

Touching isn’t it.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That might save a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

oops sorry I made an error

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

By faith you are saved, not might be saved.

Take joy everyone in His promise to you

I asked

Does…
my 100% assurity of going to heaven in my sleep equal
your faith and hope of going to heaven in your sleep?

It depends on whether or not you see your assurity as knowledge, rather than faith.

Actuallty both.
I know I have eternal life

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may** know **

that ye have eternal life." 1John 5:13

An by faith I believe in him,

For by (Amazing

)grace are ye savedthrough** faith**; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

I can know what God’s promise is and I can know the narrow path that leads to heaven but I cannot know a decision God has not yet made, nor will I try to make that decision for Him.

He has already made the promise to you, all you need to do is accept His gift, with gratitude of course, by faith according to His word

Whatis, here is the thing I’m not understanding. You seem so very sincere with this desire for everyone to be able to say with 100% assurity that they are going to heaven. At the same time that assurity can only be for the present minute.

yes and?

You’ve said it’s possible for you to lose your salvation tomorrow, next week, next month, or next year.

If I decide to go ans murder someone and I do not repent, do you believe God will save me?

You are the only Christian I’ve ever dealt with that places so much on the 100% assurance yet believes you can turn your back on salvation.

There are many more of us I can assure you

I think that’s why people confuse you with a “once saved always saved” Christian.

You think???

I know. I am 100% convinced.
And it is sad
I believe that is why God sent me.
To illustrate to all, including myself, the misunderstandings between christianity.

I learned from my experience here.

You have assurance of heaven when you go to bed at night, but you don’t have the assurance that you’re guaranteed heaven next week.

Only God knows if I will fall to Satans temptations next week.
I just might steal something next week and die with the sin unconfessed

Marshmallows anyone? I will be toasting them

cont

 

[whatisthetruth]

cont

That’s why I question the value placed on this “assurance.”
See below.

I have hope that I will reach heaven whether I die tonight, tomorrow, or 50years from now. That hope will never change no matter the situation. I trust in God’s love and mercy.

Exactly, so do I plus I trust His word and promise

Heaven Is a Generous Gift from God, His word says it.

Not “knowing” I’m going to heaven **does not bother me **in the least. Why? Because I have faith!

I have faith too, I do not understand what is holding Roman Catholics back.

I give you a scenario on the value of assurance.

Sept 11 2001

There was people trapped from every walk of life. Just about everyone trapped, except for a chosen few, lost thier physical life.

Sorry for being morbid but, I am sure it must have been an aweful decision, to jump or burn to death.

If I was, God forbid, ever in that situation, I believe I would be praying my heart out for my family and friends who I would leave behind and thank God for the time He has giving me on earth and repent and confess to Him and tell Him in prayer make my death quick, for I can’t wait to see heaven.

Oh there is one more thing, I would do.
Have any ideas?
Anyone?

i said

Well neither can I. However, It is hard to “stub my toe” in my sleep

You’ve got me there. Unless of course you fall out of bed.

I am not trying to get you, I am trying for us to understand so we can be all together as One as in my prayer.

I remember singing the song
They will know we are Christian By Our Love

in Catholic Church,

The song is not
They Will Know We Are Catholic By Our Love

you know what I mean?

God bless

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi CalmDownWisWins

UHHHHHHH…!!
OK, let’s agree to TRY to hear each other, OK!?

I Am for that. Lets do it

Well good I am glad to hear that

I’m NOT in the least interested in any ASSURANCE of my salvation!
My job is to worry about my salvation, not getting assurance of it

.
This is the part in which I ask why not

This is why when you claim to have “assurance”, yet are still concerned with “doing what you must do to please God”, you de-define the word “assurance” to mean something other than “assurance”, in such a way that you believe EXACTLY as I do, which is that we can’t KNOW in this life whether we’re “GUARANTEED” (aka your “old” definition of “assured”) salvation!

Now, can we PLEASE move on to some other aspect of this issue?

CalmDownWisWins, and everybody else, I will promise you one thing.

I will honor CalmDownWisWins request to move on and get off this thread.

But first, I have some unanswered posts and** I do not wish to keep them open**.

CalmDownWisWins,** I want to apologize to you** for blowing up the other day. I should not have done that with all the “wow’s”

As you said that it is difficult to communicate when we just have words.

That said, I just finished this post and even though it is a little long, I believe it addresses the request you made of me as not to post the answer to your question in PM and that question was,

What does it mean to me to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
The reason of the lengthy message is that I am limited to words and/or I do not have an immediate two way conversation with you.

May I ask you a favor and read everything.
I can assure you that you will understand what I believe it means to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

I am open to answer further questions.

Thank you in advance for your time and patience and your heart.
I sure gave you mine in this post, more than any other post.
**
I thought I owed you at least that much**.

If I HAD assurance of salvation, I wouldn’t have to worry about ding anything more to ATTAIN it, now would I?

AHHHHH, Now I see said the blind man

When I first came to the knowledge of truth… about the saving grace of God and accepted, by faith, in my heart that by Jesus death and resurrection, and by me being faithful to Him, I am forgiven of my sin when I sincerely repent and confess my sin…my salvation began.

That happened for me Nov 1999

From that point till the day **God calls me **home I am continually being saved. day to day.

By the power of God, not only am I being saved day to day, but I am also **being transformed **into the image to which God has designed me to be from the

inside …out

and not from the

outside…in.

The bible says,

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17

Consider the movie “The Transformers”

The process from vehicle to robot takes time. I recently seen one of the toy transformers and I was watching a kid do just that with his toy.

(changing from inside out here is a physical impossibility, but I believe you know what I mean)

All the twisting and turning that needs to take place to transform one to the other.

When God “twists and turns” us **to transform us into the image **He wants, there are times that process can be an “ouch”

So yes we are continually **being saved/ transformed **until the day **God calls **us home.

But what if that day is today?

cont…

[/QUOTE]

 

[whatisthetruth]

part 2…

CalmDownWisWins, I do not know if what I am about to say will answer your question but it is the best I know how to parallel the issue we have with salvation and accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour

consider this.

Have you ever been in the military?
if so you will be able to relate to this.

I was serving in the USAF reserves for 6 years. Each year I was required to serve one weekend a month UTA (Unit Training Assesment) and an additional 15 days full time Active Duty.
With every UTA, I would be trained (transformed) into a better airman than the last time. I started my USAF career like everyone else… in basic training as an E-1 and eventually retired as an E-6.

The purpose of the UTA was to **train/transform us **so that if there was ever a time that the reserves were needed to serve full time Active Duty, we were prepared to go Active Duty at a moments notice.

Such a case happened to me.

In February of 2001, President Bush called our troops to Saudi Arabia for “Desert Storm” which was the first major military movement while I was in the USAF.

There was talk about our reserve unit possibly being called to Active Duty. But no one would say anything for sure.

And then it happened. The phone rang and on the other end of the phone was my shop chief,

“Seargeant ______, by the orders of the president of the United States… you are to report for Active Duty tomorrow at 0800 hours”.

CalmDownWisWins, through the years of relative “peace time”, I sacrificed my time and dedicated myself to the military, because I took an oath to my Commander, which in effect was also to the president of the United States.

Through the years I would train, be transformed and **be prepared **for the day I might be called to serve Active Duty.

When that call came in, I was not going to my job the next morning, I drove to the military base to report to Active Duty, which turned out to be a 1 year tour at McGuire AFB NJ.

I could have reported to the base the following morning and after being checked in, found myself on an airplane to Saudi Arabia.

That never happened.
Could you imagine if it did?

Preparation also involved making family arangements too. My wife I **were prepared **for the possiblility of me **being called **overseas. At the time we had no children to woory about, However thier were many who did.

Each day I served Active Duty, I needed also to be **prepared ** for the possibility at a moments notice, being led to an airplane to Saudi or wherever.
And if I was not prepared, I would have been repremanded and had to answer to my Commander

Trust me, nobody wanted to face the commander under those circustances.

cont…

 

[whatisthetruth]

part 3

Now, getting back to salvation,

Day to day I live my life committed to the Lord in preparation to being called home, Like that in the military, and being transformed, day to day, into the image God wants me to be.

However, if God should** call me **right now and say “Report to my Home”, I better be prepared because if I am not prepared, I will be destined for Hell.

God told us **how to be prepared **today, right now should He call,

These things have I written unto CalmDownWisWins who believe on the name of the Son of God, Jesus; that CalmDownWisWins **may know **that he has eternal life in heaven." 1John 5:13

It can not get any easier than that.

or

That if CalmDownWisWins shalt confess with his mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in his heart that God hath raised him from the dead, he shalt be saved. Rom 10:9

Yes I substituted your name in scripture.

That is how you make God’s message and word personal, which BTW leads to accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour.

CalmDownWisWins, I believe you are prepared, based on everything you have told me. Unfortunately, I am not God. Only He knows your heart.

I am wondering, God let me know how I **can be prepared **for **His call **should it be right now, thereby I said thank you God with the acceptance of His promise.

The same promise Paul spoke of in

And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners ; of whom I am chief. 1Tim 1:14,15

Paul called himself "chief " sinner.

Question

If Paul, the worst sinner, testified to Jesus** saving** him,
Why would he not save you?

Paul said the truth, by faith, is “worthy of all acceptation”.

CalmDownWisWins, you asked how to accept Jesus into your heart as Lord and Saviour, I can not say it any better than the
following.

Saint Paul did in 1Timothy1, and as faithful and dedicated Christian you are, in that, you believe in Jesus Christ the way I do,

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3236405&postcount=83,

here is the verse I sincerely pray that God may open up your heart to receive, not my word, but God’s word to you,

Jesus is saying to you, …“Behold, I stand at the door(to CalmDownWisWins ) and knock: if CalmDownWisWins hears my voice, and opens the door to his , I will come in to him” Revelation 3:20

BTW, I am giving you my heart right now to illustrated to you…

That I am not afraid to share the love and promise of God and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

As you are being transformed by God along your spiritual day to day journey with Him in preparation for the day he calls you home,

Are you prepeared should that call come right now?

Below is a prayer I believe you can say to God with a sincere heart to be prepared if that call should caome right now.

The prayer itself does not save you, it is just words which form the prayer. I can not save you.

What saves you, I believe is the commitment to God of your And God knows your

CalmDownWisWins, if it is your desire to be prepared for eternity in heaven should God call you right now to His home, with your heart say,

"God, I believe in you and I open the “door” of my to you.
I believe in Jesus Christ and that it is only by the blood He shed on the cross in which my sins are washed away and forgiven when I offer you a sincere confession and repentance of my sin/s.

Lord, today I place my trust in you, I receive you, into my as Lord and Saviour of my life.
From this day forward, my desire is to live my life in honor of you,
according to your word.
Thank you God for your promise to me of your “exceeding abundant” saving grace.
Amen

That is how you accept Jesus as Lord and saviour of your life.

We take daily vitamins for our physical health.

That prayer said every day with one’s own sincere heart (and again God knows one’s heart) keeps us prepared for eternity in heaven every day of our life along our spiritual journey.

We never know if that day will be today, Do we??

Last question

Are you prepared for eternity in heaven should God call you right now?

God bless you all

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Friends my previous post is not about me coming to the Roman Catholic church or about you converting from Roman Catholicism to whatever other Christian religion,

The prayer at the end reinforces your committemnt to God and to tell Him from your heart that you believe in all the promises He gave you in His word.

I beleive also includes His promise of salvation He generously gave to all of His faithful children with His exceeding abundant grace.

If you do not believe me, ask God.

Again I ask,

Do you really believe the Good thief s the only one on the face of this earth that God gave assurance of heaven whiole they were still living?

Yes________

No_________

God bless,

truth

 

[jmcrae]

Whatis;

If you had the opportunity to go to the very best military training school in the whole world (and there was a campus in your neighborhood), which has been in continuous operation since 30 AD, and no soldier who graduated ever suffered defeat at the hands of the enemy, would you turn down the opportunity?

Would you say, 'Oh, no, I’d much rather set my own exercises and train in my back yard; it’s so much easier than having to travel all the way across the neighborhood all the time." ?

Yet, you turn down the opportunity to be a Catholic; why is that?

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi again Kolbe,

how much effort was being taken by your family to know their faith.
My mom feels to this day she is living her faith, she has not even opened the bible. We tell her bible verses. But that is it.

the Catechism says that to be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ. Did your family own a Catechism?
Nope. Scripture would have been a foreign word to me

I would hear the readings at Mass, but I never made a biblical connection. Also I never made a connection between the Eucharist and the body of Christ.

I don’t see this as a fault of the Catholic Church.
In no way am I blaming the Catholic church

Certainly some priests and religious ed teachers aren’t the best, but if parents make any effort to know their faith their children would know what they are hearing at Mass and would know the Eucharist is the Body of Christ. Did you go to religious education all those years?
rarely went to cdc classes, that is it, of course they talked about the bible, I did not understand the lesson, since I never read the bible. It was a fog in my life for lack of a better word

What is scary is the failure of parents to live up to the promise they make to God at baptism to teach their children the faith. It’s scary and it’s sad.
Again, to question my mom today. if you were to ask her,
She would tell you to mind your own buisness, in a nice way of course, and that there is nothing wrong in the way she is living her faith.
I grew up with that dedication from both my parents,
After leaving the church, obviously God revealed His truth to me.

Would you then have any objections to suggesting another Roman Catholic watch the video too?

I wouldn’t object to a Catholic listening to any preacher they want to listen to. If a Catholic knows their faith, they’ll know when they are listening to something that isn’t true.
Thank you again for acknowleging Paul Washer’s video.
That is why I recommended it, I believed his teaching was in line with Catholic teaching.

However, at the end he did talk about assurance of salvation
I am curious did you watch all the way through his final prayer?

If you did, do you see how I believe one can be assurred salvation with the right heart?

============================

Unfortunately,.I have felt that some people have saw me as such no matter what I said.

I think it’s because the 100% assurance thing is almost always associated with “once saved always saved” .

My fear is you are right

I believe there is a correct way and a wrong way to take that statement, “once saved always saved”.

I will believe to my grave that salvation is a Gift from God.

With His gift “in the right hands with the right heart” one can use, in Jesus name, to make a tremendous impact for the true love of Jesus

on the other hand

With His gift “in the wrong hands without a clear understanding of the value of His gift” can be “deadly”

Sorry for me saying this, sounds something like what Peter Parker’s uncle said to him in Spiderman about the “Gift” Peter has or power…I forget which

I am 100% assured that there are a lot of Christians who believe like I do who have also been placed under the “once saved always saved”.umbrella of the Christians who do not have a clear understanding of the value of His gift.

I mean this with no disrespect, I believe that is why Catholicism shys away from 100% Assurance because they see too too much of God’s gift of salvation, either being misunderstood or taken advantage of.

i.e. Hmm lets see now I am saved let me do this and I will still get to heaven. I will just confess afterward and God will forgive me…

What do you think?

cont

 

[Philthy]

WOW

may I say WOW

…Philthy, OUCH That hurt

I leave you with the kindest of words and you say what you did,
Oh!! BTW, didn’t Jesus say something like, whoever has not sinned, let him be the one who throws the first stone?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3253908#post3253908

However, I can assure you that I did not post the above thread as a result of your comments…
May God bless you and keep you,
truth

Just for the record - I dont think I said anything uncharitable about you, and I know for fact I intended no offense. What, exactly did you take offense in of MY comments? Perhaps you are confusing my comments with Calmdownwins? I stated facts, not opinions. If there is a fact that you disagree with please let me know. I, once again, have not judged your eternal destiny.
Philthy's earlier post:

Well, you are getting closer to understanding. Our good friend believes that he has infallible assurance of his own salvation based, NOT on personal divine revelation, but based upon his fallible (he admits this) understanding of Scripture. We have said over and over that such knowledge simply is not “absolutely certain” in the manner he wishes to have it. And its not good enough for him to simply have “reasonable assurance” like we do that, say, the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. He needs to have “absolute assurance” of the verdict of God’s judgement now - before God actually judges him.
The most unusual part of it is that this assurance which he seeks is an assurance of something that never actually takes place! His assurance is that IF he had died right now that he would go to heaven - but he doesnt actually die “right now” and therefore, what is the point?

It really is the concept of “absolute certainty” that has us speaking past one another. He does not seem to understand that, apart from divine revelation, he simply has the “assurance of faith” which is a tremendous blessing, but does not meet the criteria of “absolute certainty”. It’s not really worth this much effort…

 

[whatisthetruth]

Kolbe cont…

My biggest fear is that there are a lot more Christian non RC’s who believe like I do and since we are not Roman Catholic we automatically fall under the “once saved always saved” umbrella

My biggest fear has nothing to do with what Catholics think of any non Catholic. My fear is for those Christians who think they are going to heaven no matter what.

To that I 100% agree with you, Salvation is a lot more than thinking you are going to heaven

I may think all I want that if I sit behind the wheel of my car and start the engine I will get to work.

I need to first put the car in “drive”
Sorry , I just wanted to throw that in

How ironic… you probably want me to have the grace which is provided through the sacrements just as must as I wish that you can accept the reality of the Promise of eternal life from God.

**See, this isn’t fair. **
I am sorry you think so. I do want to be fair…lets see where I am wrong.

**You’ve got your wish

I have completely and utterly accpeted the reality of God’s promise of eternal life. I also know that promise means I must be a reflection of Jesus Christ to this world.**

I know you have. I have no doubt. My wish is that you can enjoy the 100% assurance of salvation I do.

Trust me… in the right hand with the right heart, which I have no doubt you and a lot of people in this community have, Your Christian life takes on a totally new level.

Unless I missed something, you or no one yet has told me

If God would call them right now, that because they accepted His promise of salvation by faith and according to HIS word, they are 100% sure they will spend eternity in heaven.

**No, I’m not (going to priesthood). But I was touched by the Holy Orders

when I was confirmed.
every time I go to Confession
every time I receive Holy Communion.

The Holy Orders is a huge part of my life even though I’m not a priest.**

I respect and I believe and understand what you are saying.

With the assumption by “Holy Orders” you mean His Devine Grace, I will say the following,

I am touched by His devine grace in all you mentioned

Am I to assume that you believe there is NO way I can receive that “Holy Orders” from Jesus, unless I am of the Roman Catholic faith?

Holy Communion (we disagree on the :Real Presence", however the bottom line we receive Jesus in our heart

I will respectfully disagree with you here.

Ok

Communion outside of the Catholic Church is nothing even remotely close to the reality of the Eucharist. I have no doubt that you receive Jesus in your heart, but the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Eucharist is beneficial and priceless beyond our ability to comprehend. And it breaks my heart that so many are not receiving that.

Which of course, falls back to the interpretation of scripture.

Kolbe, In saying that we receive Jesus in our heart I am also saying that we receive Jesus as a whole (body blood and spirit) in our Body, Blood and Soul too.

It is the heart that pumps the blood so that that the body, blood and soul can be nurished by His body blood and spirit.

And of course the ultimate, the cleansing of our soul of our sin by his blood. Thank you Jesus

I agree, it is true we do not have the physical “Holy Eucharist” present at our worship service.

** I haven’t got mine! you’re still missing out on the grace I wish for you!! **

After saying what I just did,

What grace are you wishing me to have which you believe I do not have?

Also, do you believe that grace which you are about to tell me is necessary for my salvation?

thanks truth

 

[Ignatius]

Hi all,

I have been in conversations with many Roman Catholics trying to get an answer to a question I been asking in numerous threads.

It is my hope I can get an answer which we all can learn from.

The question at hand, based on the scenario I presented below,

Is there hope for me to spend eternity in heaven?

CCC 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”

Since all Christians have the Hope Eternal Life in Jesus Christ, and you are presumably a Christian, although you did not state so, you would certainly be included.

 

[AquinasT]

The main thrust of this thread (minus a few sidetracks) seems to be, “Can a person be %100 assured of salvation?”
I would like to ask the question from another angle: “Is it possible that a person might FOOL themselves into thinking they are %100 assured of salvation?”
Isn’t it possible that we might THINK we are %100 assured of salvation, when really we are treading on thin ice? Are we even called to make that bold judgment about ourselves? I am reminded of a parable from Jesus… Perhaps we should ask ourselves, are we the man who prayed loudly to God, boasting of his own salvation; or shouldn’t we strive instead to be the sinner who humbly and quietly prays for mercy, not at all certain of our own salvation.
I think the idea of %100 assurance is contrary to the Gospel message if for no other reason than it seems prideful and arrogant to assume that you know God’s will rather than to humbly submit oneself to God’s judgment.
Thomas

 

[whatisthetruth]

Kolbe cont…

If Catholics see the pope as God, I’m guessing they don’t have a Bible at home and they go to mass on Christmas and Easter. In other words, they are completely ignorant of their faith.

Now you know my background

The Jesus in the Eucharist IS the Jesus in heaven and it IS the Jesus who shed blood and died for our sins. And when we receive Jesus in the Eucharist we receive grace for our body, mind, and soul so that we are truly one body in Christ. It is that grace which helps us to see Christ in the least of those around us.

I did not see and believe then while growing up, but I do know

The question is, does the physical Holy Euscharist need to be present in order for God to give one His grace.

In other words, in due respect if I were a physically blind Roman Catholics, I would not know if the “Holy Eucharist” is present or not because I could not see it.

However, when I open the “eyes” of my heart to what God has to say to me at Mass, I will be able to see the unimaginable, Praise God.

Correct?

Let us fight the GOOD fight IN LOVE and bring our prisoners home to Jesus

I’m always up for that fight. God bless you and have a great week!

Peace!

God bless you

truth

 

[fbl9]

hi whatis… you say you attended the catholic church for thirty years before leaving.going by what you have posted you din’t even know the faith you left. just like i did 3and half years ago. i tried to convince my wife through scripture the church i was going into was the true church every where i looked old or new testament i kept finding the catholic church, in no way could it be proved from scripture that the catholic church was not what it claims to be the one true church founed by Jesus Christ.you have not proved me wrong yet on my personal experiences with rebaptised people though.rebaptised people can’t seem to admit they could even be remotely wrong even in denying the trinity.my wife and i were engaged in dialoge with a person who was baptised as an infant in the united church but was rebaptised at this other church yes i see your piont,we are all christians, it doesn’t matter what you beleive as long as you believe in Jesus, but there is nothing wrong with what i say either,were the usual replies we got till one day this lady acuused me of trying to seduce her in a human way. after her apology iasked why? her response is the most ironic i have ever heard"well my guide was blind " funny a blind guide could see a baptism was not valid yet instruct some one to be so far from the truth.i know what it is to be like without any truth in my life and can sympathize with you for clinging to that which you have been taught as the truth.

 

[whatisthetruth]

We do not assume that we will go to heaven. We are worried we will wind up in hell.

We have no need of having “personal” ASSURANCE of salvation, because salvation is a result of our cooperation with God’s grace, and we’re too busy trying to be as cooperative as possible to be worried about looking for the “Wonka Golden Ticket” into heaven that you seem to call “ASSURANCE”.

Protestants, on the other hand, are seemingly too busy minting “Wonka Golden Tickets”, and “miraculously” FINDING them where they left them, to worry about cooperating FULLY with God’s graces given to them.

Sorry you feel that way

please read my comments to Kolbe and answering your question about accepting Jesus, To which I put my heart into just for you

God bless

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

One is not “saved” UNTIL the race is over. To claim to have “won” without having first “crossed the finish line” is called what?

Faith in the saving power of our Lord Jesus Christ and in Almighty God and trusting in His Word that said,

For God so loved CalmDownWisWins, that He gave his only begotten Son,Jesus that if CalmDownWisWins,believeth in him CalmDownWisWins,should not perish, but have everlasting life. John3:16

And I have no doubt you have the faith.

So what is preventing you from accepting God’s promise to you?

truth

 

[Kolbe300]

Hi again Kolbe,

Hello again!

After leaving the church, obviously God revealed His truth to me.

I am very glad that God has revealed Himself to you. We share that experience.

However, at the end he did talk about assurance of salvation
I am curious did you watch all the way through his final prayer?

If you did, do you see how I believe one can be assurred salvation with the right heart?

I did watch the entire sermon, yes. What I see is how those who believe the Word and live the Word can have total faith, assurance if you’d like, that salvation will be theirs. But, like I’ve said numerous times, to me assurance and knowledge are two different things. I can’t know I’m going to heaven because I’m not there yet. I truly think this is just one of those things we’ll have to agree to disagree on.

I believe there is a correct way and a wrong way to take that statement, “once saved always saved”.

Pastor Washer made a point a couple of times that I didn’t agree with. He said that if you are truly saved God will not allow you to stay off the path that leads to heaven. He basically said you’ll be pulled right back onto the path. I disagree with that. God does not and will not force anyone to walk the narrow path. He will always offer the grace necessary to return to Him, but He will not force you to cooperate with it.

I will believe to my grave that salvation is a Gift from God.

And I will do the same!

I mean this with no disrespect, I believe that is why Catholicism shys away from 100% Assurance because they see too too much of God’s gift of salvation, either being misunderstood or taken advantage of.
i.e. Hmm lets see now I am saved let me do this and I will still get to heaven. I will just confess afterward and God will forgive me…

What do you think?

Again, Catholicism doesn’t shy away from 100% faith in God’s promises to us. The Church teaches us to do exactly what the Bible teaches us to do: to trust in God’s mercy and to hope for salvation.

To that I 100% agree with you, Salvation is a lot more than thinking you are going to heaven

I may think all I want that if I sit behind the wheel of my car and start the engine I will get to work.

I need to first put the car in “drive”
Sorry , I just wanted to throw that in

That’s a great analogy actually! But I would add to it as well. Even after you start your car, put it in drive, and begin heading down the road, you still can’t be assured you’ll make it to work! I drive my spiritual car the best I can and I know God will give me red lights, green lights, and yellow lights along the way to help me. I’ll drive and drive knowing God is going to help me get to work. However, knowing God will help me doesn’t mean I can take my hands off the wheel. I have absolute faith that God will help me get to work, but I won’t declare myself there until I arrive.

I know you have. I have no doubt. My wish is that you can enjoy the 100% assurance of salvation I do.

It seems you think that because I don’t have 100% assurance (knowledge) that I’m going to heaven I’m somehow not enjoying God’s grace and promise. This couldn’t be further from the truth. The beautiful thing is that I don’t NEED to know I’m going to heaven. All I need to know is that God is with me. And, thank God, I know that.

Unless I missed something, you or no one yet has told me

If God would call them right now, that because they accepted His promise of salvation by faith and according to HIS word, they are 100% sure they will spend eternity in heaven.

Whatis, If one dies in God’s grace they can be 100% assured they are going to heaven. The catch is, no one can declare themselves in God’s grace. Declaring yourself saved does not make it so. That is entirely up to God. Remember Paul said he had nothing on his conscience, yet he would not judge himself because only God can do that. I agree with Paul.

With the assumption by “Holy Orders” you mean His Devine Grace, I will say the following,

Not just God’s divine grace, but divine grace offered through the sacraments of the priesthood.

Am I to assume that you believe there is NO way I can receive that “Holy Orders” from Jesus, unless I am of the Roman Catholic faith?

If by Holy Orders you simply mean grace, then I’m not saying that at all. God grants grace to anyone He chooses. However, no one can receive the Eucharist outside of the Catholic Church and no one can experience the sacrament of Reconciliation outside of the Church. A Catholic priest is necessary for those sacraments.

continued…

 

[Kolbe300]

Kolbe, In saying that we receive Jesus in our heart I am also saying that we receive Jesus as a whole (body blood and spirit) in our Body, Blood and Soul too.

I believe Jesus instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist. Therefore I believe it is the only means of receiving the actual Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. Anyone can receive God’s grace and the Holy Spirit. But receiving the Eucharist is only possible if you actually receive the Eucharist.

What grace are you wishing me to have which you believe I do not have?

The grace offered through the Sacraments. God uses the priesthood to confer very specific and very powerful graces to those who believe. Outside of the ordained priesthood, those Sacraments are impossible.

Also, do you believe that grace which you are about to tell me is necessary for my salvation?

For me, I could not find salvation without the Sacraments. And because I believe in the Sacraments I must partake in them. God also knows the hearts of those outside of the Sacraments. He will be the judge of what is necessary for them. In the meantime, every human being, you and me, have hope for salvation.

Thank you again whatis, I have really enjoyed our conversation. You are sincere and kind, and I see a deep faith. I will be praying for you, please do so for me as well.

Peace!

 

[whatisthetruth]

You claim that you KNOW when you will be faced with difficulties before there is any “normal” evidence of those difficulties?

Why is knowing that the bridge is out ahead when I’m supposed to know when the bridge is out ahead, and not before I’m supposed to know the bridge is out ahead, a bad thing?

Since you think that "salvation"and “assurance” are “co-substantial”, that they are equally present whenever either is present, if anyone threatens your “assurance” they also threaten your salvation. That explains 99% of what you have said on this thread.

To me, there can never BE a bridge out (a missing piece of the road) such that my way to heaven is blocked. The only threat to my salvation is my foolishly choosing to leave the road, and wind up in hell.

My road, which is not “mine” in possession but only in use, always leads to heaven because God built it, laid it down for us to see and follow, and if I were to close my eyes in the “assurance” that “the direction I’m travelling now leads to heaven”, then the next “turn”, laid down by GOD, would find me off the path and onward toward hell.

You REALLY need to understand what YOU mean by “assurance”. That single error, corrected, will allow you to choose to all of God’s graces, and not only those you “knew” before you closed your eyes while running on God’s mysterious meandering road.

We are so close to our understanding it is rediculously close