Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[whatisthetruth]

Yes. Most certainly. We all do. We all, hopefully, snap out of our “ignorance” and listen a bit more intently.

You are “assured your salvation”, though not assured of it tomorrow, which makes “assurance” mean, WHAT exactly?

Because you are “assured”, you need only do what you want to do, those things which make you happy to do, instead of that which God has told you specifically to do, and you are MORE than justified in ignoring God’s “other un-necessities” because “God”, or someone who seems to be God, has told you “you’re safe”.

read my 3 parter to you , it will address this

 

[whatisthetruth]

He can!

But, I’m not going to be presumptuous with God and ASSUME that He WILL, or even DOES!

If you want to take that chance, you’re welcome to it.

You choose to live your life under the presumption that you will, WITH THE ASSURANCE OF GOD, be saved while not trying to do His FULL will, because if the Good Thief could be ASSURED heaven without all those “unecessary commands of God”, you will be saved because you’re not only MORE WORTHY than the Good Thief, but you been made to “feel assured” by people not in full communion with the Church who are VERY skilled rhetoricians, and to “feel” assured is to “be” assured, as you’re “sure” that only the Holy Spirit could make you feel that way!

Other powers are VERY good at making people feel that way.

No chance, I believe God promised it.

see my 3 parter

 

[whatisthetruth]

Yes. That IS it! You’ve finally heard what I’ve been telling you all this time? THE CHURCH is the ONLY authority in existence that can infallibly make a decision of any matter of faith and morals!

I’m SO glad you’ve finally unplugged your ears!

**What you pose as “God” is not God.

You are worshipping at the altar of “Comfort”, and if you continue to do so, your “comfort” will drag you to hell. **

**This is a pretty bold judgement call **
What does the Church say about this verse?

Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

thanks ,

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

I trust in Him. You don’t. That’s why you fail to do what He says, and do so on a habitual basis.

I have no interest in depriving the other people here of your “wisdom”. Please, if you have some for us, do tell.

Do tell. Unless working in the shadows is the way you like to do things? Who works like that, again? Hmmmm…

I love these judgement calls, but it is all good, keep them coming

If you have something that would help me, then you have something that would help US, and it would be uncharitable of you to not share it with the rest of our brothers.

I did in my 3 parter,

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

A “universal universal church”? Why two “universals”?

Oh my a typo,.,Sorry about that

I meant “universal church”

there i fixed it

**Your misidentifications of what the Body of Christ is, and what “catholic” means, and what “church” means, all of them being at variance with the Church (Catholic), is the source cause of all your theological problems.

Heretics always seize up, and allow the demonic tale-telling to spin away at breakneck speed to justify those “out of context truths” being “sufficient” for salvation.

Your lack of an infallible source of truth has created the “simplistic chaos” that is protestant Christianity.

You now reject doing as God has told you

but you’ve proven yourself really quite capable of understanding you predicament, and that doesn’t bode well for you

Though, once again, you may not know God in the fullest and not be culpable of your rejection of Him,** .

And of course more judgements.

Do you believe you are speaking to me in the way Jesus would want you too?

or in the way the church wants you too?

Thanks

truth

 

[Preacher_Vern]

So you know for a fact, that if you sould die then you would go to Heaven to be with the Lord for ever? Cause like he said Jesus, you must be born again.

I know for a fact.

 

[whatisthetruth]

**Your “God’s Word” is not THE God’s Word.

and undercut your argument for your being “more Godly” than those who follow all of God’s Word.

That is your problem,

asking Catholics to bring Christianity to the “lowest common denominator” state, which diminishes God

As “pope” of the church of Whatis,**

Keep those judgenments coming.

Is this the way of true catholcism???

Someone please answer, I would be interested to know?

You can certainly claim to have been a Catholic, but when you say things like that you demonstrate that you were NOT a Catholic during the time you held that belief,

Like what???

thanks

truth

Wow this is the last one from CalmDownWisWins

PHEW !!!

 

[Preacher_Vern]

I know for a fact that if I should die right now, I will be in heaven with the Lord. For God so love the world that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.

 

[whatisthetruth]

I know for a fact that if I should die right now, I will be in heaven with the Lord. For God so love the world that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.

Hi Preacher Vern, I am so sorry I never said hi to you.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Philthy

Just for the record - I dont think I said anything uncharitable about you, and I know for fact I intended no offense. What, exactly did you take offense in of MY comments?

Perhaps you are confusing my comments with Calmdownwins? I stated facts, not opinions. If there is a fact that you disagree with please let me know. I, once again, have not judged your eternal destiny.

Our good friend believes that he has infallible assurance of his own salvation based, NOT on personal divine revelation, but based upon his fallible (he admits this) understanding of Scripture.

Are you sure that is a fact or is that your opinion?

I stated I am 100% sure of my salvation based on the word of God shouild I die right now.

That is God’s word to me, I am sorry if you do not hear GOd telling you that too.

I know He is, just listen to His word

That is good for starters

thank you

truth

Originally Posted by Philthy’s earlier post
Well, you are getting closer to understanding. Our good friend believes that he has infallible assurance of his own salvation based, NOT on personal divine revelation, but based upon his fallible (he admits this) understanding of Scripture. We have said over and over that such knowledge simply is not “absolutely certain” in the manner he wishes to have it. And its not good enough for him to simply have “reasonable assurance” like we do that, say, the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. He needs to have “absolute assurance” of the verdict of God’s judgement now - before God actually judges him.
The most unusual part of it is that this assurance which he seeks is an assurance of something that never actually takes place! His assurance is that IF he had died right now that he would go to heaven - but he doesnt actually die “right now” and therefore, what is the point?
It really is the concept of “absolute certainty” that has us speaking past one another. He does not seem to understand that, apart from divine revelation, he simply has the “assurance of faith” which is a tremendous blessing, but does not meet the criteria of “absolute certainty”. It’s not really worth this much effort…

 

[jmcrae]

Whatis;

If you had the opportunity to go to the very best military training school in the whole world (and there was a campus in your neighborhood), which has been in continuous operation since 30 AD, and no soldier who graduated ever suffered defeat at the hands of the enemy, would you turn down the opportunity?

Would you say, 'Oh, no, I’d much rather set my own exercises and train in my back yard; it’s so much easier than having to travel all the way across the neighborhood all the time." ?

Yet, you turn down the opportunity to be a Catholic; why is that?

 

[Refugium]

If someone who is invincibly ignorant is saved, he is still saved by the power of Jesus Christ through the Church.

The problem I see with holding out the hope (?) of invincible ignorance as a passcard is that the term seems to have become confused with “invincible truculence.” The truculence we see at CAF is often grounded in culpable ignorance. It is the truculence, not the ignorance, that seems invincible.

What evidence do we have that anyone has been saved without actual baptism? If someone really desired God, couldn’t God, in His providence, provide someone to preach the gospel of Christ to them and give them an actual baptism? He did so with Cornelius and with the Ethiopian eunuch and with many others throughout Church history (for example, the Ven. Sister Mary Agreda, without ever leaving Spain, miraculously preached to Indians in the Southwest before the arrival of the Europeans).

 

[Philthy]

CCC 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”

Since all Christians have the Hope Eternal Life in Jesus Christ, and you are presumably a Christian, although you did not state so, you would certainly be included.

Short and sweet…

 

[Philthy]

Hi Philthy

Just for the record - I dont think I said anything uncharitable about you, and I know for fact I intended no offense. What, exactly did you take offense in of MY comments?

Perhaps you are confusing my comments with Calmdownwins? I stated facts, not opinions. If there is a fact that you disagree with please let me know. I, once again, have not judged your eternal destiny.

Are you sure that is a fact or is that your opinion?

 

[mercygate]

"mercygate:

If someone who is invincibly ignorant is saved, he is still saved by the power of Jesus Christ through the Church.

The problem I see with holding out the hope (?) of invincible ignorance as a passcard is that the term seems to have become confused with “invincible truculence.” The truculence we see at CAF is often grounded in culpable ignorance. It is the truculence, not the ignorance, that seems invincible.

What evidence do we have that anyone

has been saved without actual baptism? If someone really desired God, couldn’t God, in His providence, provide someone to preach the gospel of Christ to them and give them an actual baptism? He did so with Cornelius and with the Ethiopian eunuch and with many others throughout Church history (for example, the Ven. Sister Mary Agreda, without ever leaving Spain, miraculously preached to Indians in the Southwest before the arrival of the Europeans).

Perhaps I am tired, but I have no idea what you are attempting to convey here.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Keep in mind I am not Protestant, look at what Kolbe said about me a little while back, hint hint

And yes I agree that communication can be difficult because we are limited to only word and “smileys” which I find help

You ARE a protestant, notwhithstanding your protestations (!?) to the contrary, as you PROTEST the authority of The Church.

That IS what makes one a protestant. You are free to call yourself whatever like, of course, but you’ll have to accept the fact that I shall forever (or until you become a non-protestant) call yu a protestant.

What is it about the descriptive term “protestant” that bothers you?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
First, we have a self-identification with “The Good Thief”, then it’s with the Martyr St. Stephen.

Hmmmm…

What shall be next?

Only God know’s And I believe I do too. Stay tuned I have some good surprises.

You like surprises?

Just remember CalmDownWisWins I am on your side, you have not fully accepted that yet, AS far as I am concerned, you are on my side =…Jesus side,

You with me or against me?

I’m on Jesus’ side. You are not FULLY on Jesus’ side.

So, which side do you suppose I should be on?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
Thomas’ fear should not BE eased if he is not doing ALL he should be doing to attain heaven!

If he is “privately reconciled” with God, and truly commited to being “publically reconciled” with God (via a priest), and he meets his end between the two, then he can be as assured as is possible that heaven awaits him.

But not 100% sure. Is that correct?

There is no 100%, or 50%, or 10,000% assurance of that which we can’t know, have no way of knowing, are specifically TOLD not to worry about knowing, and will know only after we’ve made our irrevocable decision and our fate is sealed!

If you NEED 100% certainty of something that GOD has told you you are not to be certain about until it happens, which is not in this life but “between lives” (earthly and eternal), then you NEED that which is not from God and are holding onto a NEED that will drag you to hell as assuredly as there is a hell.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

The protestant, who refuses to commit to God’s due, which is “public reconciliation”, refuses a direct command on God.

We can certainly THINK that we are 100% assured of heaven, but who is more likely to achieve it ?

The faithful who believe that God does not lie when He said this

Quote:
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life." 1John 5:13

Your simplistic interpretation of the meaning of “believes in the name of the Son of God” is in error!

Satan “believes” in the name of the Son of God! Does that make him “saved”?

Quote:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

Your meaning of “faith” is also in error. “Faith” does not simply mean saying to yourself over and over endlessly, “I believe Jesus and He will save me, I believe Jesus and He will save me, I believe Jesus and He will save me, etc.”

Faith is the ability to accept that you must do what God has told you to do. To accept that what you choose to do is “sufficient” and makes doing all you CAN do “uncessary” is not have faith that God’s decisions are more important than yours.

The “works” that are spoken of are the empty works of “doing good deeds” done SPECIFICALLY to EARN one’s way into heaven. Counting on having done those things to have a “paid for ticket” to heaven makes having done those things, even though good (probably) in themselves, WORTHLESS as “leverage” to pry open the gates of heaven!

Taking the eucharist is not “buying” one’s way into heaven by doing an unecessary “extra-credit project”. It is simply being faithful to God by doing what He has specifically told us to do.

If you do not do it when you know you should do and when you can do it you are being unfaithful to God, and the choice of not having faith in Jesus is WHAT again?

Quote:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:9

To whom are we confessing when we “confess with your lips and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved”?

We are confessing that to THE BODY OF CHRIST, who is Jesus Christ the Head and all of His Body The Church.

You may choose to speak only “personally” to your internal image of Jesus, but I choose to make known my confession to the fullness of The Body of Christ, which we have been told is His Church whose representative in persona Christi is a Priest.

Should I not be able to get to a Priest in time, God will (may!?) understand, but if I fail to do as God has said because I’ve decided that His word is “unecessary” and choose to make my cnonfession “the easy way”, then would I not be choosing myself over God?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

He who knows in humility that he will never have that absolute assurance of salvation and commits to do ALL that God tells him, or he who assumes in massive hubris that he has 100% assurance of salvation and says to God that he will only do the “minimally sufficient” parts of God’s commands?

Once again Whatis, by overvaluing “comfort”

I am glad to see you put comfort in quotations I assume trying to find a word to describe how you feel about my belief about being 100% assured of going to heaven

How can you NOT be “in comfort” (comfortable) if you are 100% SURE of salvation? If you AREN’T **utterly **comfortable with having 100% assurance of salvation, then your definition of “comfort”, and/or “assurance” for that matter, beggars the imagination!

I can promise you, undeserving in far from comfort

What? You’ll have to translate that phrase-fragment. Thanks.