Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[whatisthetruth]

Hi CalmDownWisWins

cont…

You prefer to choose to ignore God

From my recent post, can you really say I am ignoring God?

and construe through misinterpretation of scripture

I respect your opinion

an ASSURANCE where there is none.

you sure about that?,
Did you ask God?

Why you do this I won’t conjecture on.

Some may say your name here is not CalmDownWisWins

I am sure it is. That is why. You told me, unless you lying which I do not believe you are

In fact, your “assurance” is only a temporary possession, as you readily admit, which, when the object of the so-called “assurance” is a thing which can only occur once, nullifies any meaning of the word “assurance” meaning “assured to happen”.

Read my recent posts, and see if you can say the same thing
I strive to live my life for the Lord each and every day. And If I fall short on my quest to do that, I know I can wind up in hell.

So you work out your salvation with vigor. Excellent. Very Catholic!

I am glad we agree on something

I said

It is at those times I thank Him for His overwhelming grace and forgiveness which I can receive, by faith, according to His word.

Amen! And while your means of reconciliation are not the best, they are good, and to your credit

.

Not my creadit, do not go there, to GOD’S credit

As long as you don’t do as well as you could in reconciling with the Body of Christ,

And what make you assume that I can better be reconciled with Jesus?

your willfull refusal of the full measure of the graces that God offers you makes you somewhat less likely to choose God over your “needs” (ie the idol of “asssurance”),

Wow!! I am sorry you presume that about me. I can change what you believe, I am not going to try

but doesn’t prohibit your choice of Him in His mercy.

Well thank you

I said

after Jesus told the thief “today I will remember you in paradise”, the thief was 100% assured of his eternal destiny in heaven both expressed by his FAITH in Jesus and then Jesus’ promise to him after seeing that the thief’s faith was real and sincere

.

The thief had the chance to mortally sin

figures you throw in an objection

when Jesus finished His sentence and before he died, but JESUS is GOD and knew that the thief was not to do that!

So why can not Jesus tell us the same spiritually?

We are told (by the Church) that we are NOT to accept “visions” (revelations) which may be from God as reliable without the interpretation of the whole Church.

AH so that is why, you are told by the church.

Ok , Let me ask you a real serious question,

In the room is
“the church” on the left side of the room
and

GOD on the right side of the room

and you have a serious question which needs to be answered.

There is a long line waiting on the church’s side of the room

On GOD’s side of the room is just me and 3 protestants in prayer before God,

What do you do?

Since we have no way to know if our “revelation” that “Jesus just told me that I’m perfectly saved until I mortally sin again” as being true, we have no assurance, unlike the good thief, of the truth of our “interpretation” of “assured salvation”.

My friend that is where trust comes in. You did ask in the thread, what is means to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

PM me we will talk about it.

You cling more to “assurance” than to “salvation”.

I am sorry it appears that way. Review my recent posts and see if you feel the same

cont,

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi CalmDownWisWins

cont,

I shall pray that you find that the need for salvation is more important than the idol of assurance.

I am sorry you feel that way, I do treasure my salvation, And I know I can lose it if I lose faith

Purgatory is the guarantee of reaching heaven.The protestant refuses to believe that
any “cleansing” is neccessary

Ahhh there is where you believe the guarantee is. I do not believe in Purgatory, but I am curious, how does one know they will make it to purgatory to be clenased and where is that in the bible?

It shows that you have truly taken a stand, which I for one respect enormously!

I appreciate you saying that…and yes I take a stand for Jesus.

Today in church we talked about Stephen taking a stand for Jesus before he was stoned to death. And Saul/Paul was there as the chief persecutor.

Sometimes taking a stand for good, one will get persecuted.

Let me ask you, do you believe I was ignoring you. I am really sorry it felt that way, I will try to answer your post 1st and put the others 2nd.

The thing you refuse to accept is that you ARE a member of the Body of Christ,

Waht would cause you to say that?

and that Body is the Church (Catholic), though you are not in fullest communion with her.

Not with the Roman Catholic church but I am very much part of God’s “universal” catholic church

Therefore, you might be saved in the end,

God has saved me. I hope down the road I do not reject heaven. Right now there is no better choice, agree?

Are you sure that is not your hope to be saved at the end?

You can not clain you will go to heaven should you did right now

God bless you

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Kolbe,

I’m glad you are not that bold!

Praise God, thank you Kolbe. I believe I found someone who sees me for who I am. This is a good start.

I have said many of time I will go to heaven if I die in my sleep, but tomorrow is a different story.

Our beliefs with regards to salvation are much more similar than they are different.

I have suggested that too

But, and certainly meaning no offense

no offense taken, never

you come across as a Protestant with some very Catholic-like beliefs.

Thank you for recognizing that too,
You are the second person to recognize that my beliefs are close to Roman Catholicism

In case you missed it, look at my response to CalmDownWisWins in #83
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3236405&postcount=83

I would venture to say you are a minority among your Protestant brothers and sisters.

Thank you, ***you are the 1st *** to call me a minority among my Protestant brothers and sisters.

Protestants may or may not see me as such, I will not speak for them.

**Kolbe, I am not a protestant, I am a Christian in God’s catholic “universal” church, which includes all Christians.

One person here reminded me in PM when he said their favorite song was “And they Will Know We Are Christian By Our Love**”

I loved singing that song in Roman Catholic church, unfortunately I had never made the connection in my heart that love was an extension of God’s for all of us.

I believe what matters most is how, at least how I believe, God sees all of us.

I believe God sees two groups of people, the Christians and the non Christians

Christians… the Roman Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, Methodists etc (all who believe in the same God, Jesus, Holy Spirit you and I do and of course heaven, hell and Satan).

non-Christians …The atheists, hindus, muslims, buddhist, etc, all who are lost and are yet to be found

I never new what the words to the song Amazing Grace meant until a couple years ago

This is beautiful. Check it out

Amazing Grace

Again, I see nothing wrong with you going to sleep with that confidence. I do the same thing.
Oh !! ,

I just choose to call my confidence faith and hope, rather than 100% knowledge.
So what are you really saying,
You are 100%sure but do not use that term?

Does…
**my 100% assurity of going to heaven in my sleep

equal**

your faith and hope of going to heaven in your sleep?

If so, why not claim God’s promise to you? by faith according to His word

I can have faith and hope that I won’t stub my toe tomorrow, but I can’t have 100% knowledge that I won’t.

Well neither can I. However, It is hard to “stub my toe” in my sleep

You go to bed saying you are not worthy of the gift. It’s true. I go to receive the Eucharist, which is the very gift of Jesus Christ, saying the exact same thing. And it’s true. See what I mean?

There’s no difference.

Agree, I see what you mean We are seeing the same thing through “two differnt lenses”.

Correction, seems like we are seeing the same person, **Jesus **

We are so close.

I knew that all along, thank you for acknowledging that.

I watched the entire message from the Paul Washer link you provided.

You are the first to acknowledge that, thank you.

It was titled a “shocking” message, and I will admit to being shocked by it.

I was too

Not because of the message, but because the message was coming from a Protestant.

Wow!! I was shocked by the message. I mean I always believed what Paul Washer said, but the passion he illustrated in

A turning away from sin, a hatred for the things that God hates

 

[jmcrae]

Whatis, what you are missing is that it is not our feelings that get us into Heaven - feelings of self-assurance, etc. - but rather, the Judgement of God.

God will not Judge us until after we die; therefore, we have no way of knowing at this present moment what God’s Judgement upon us will be. God Himself has not yet made that decision, and who are we to speak before He speaks?

Imagine how rude it would be if someone said to you, “Oh, you are going to give me thus-and-so for my birthday present,” before you had made the decision to do that. (Even if you had been thinking of giving them that thing, already.)

God has not yet decided where we will go after we die. Therefore, we cannot say with absolute certainty. We can say, “I hope,” and we can say “Based on this or that fact that I know to be true, I think …” but since God hasn’t actually made the decision yet, there is no way to know, 100%.

 

[whatisthetruth]

cont…

How Delraek described thier friend is very similiar to my story.

I never read the bible
My family did not own one.
In Catholic school, the chatecism was our “bible”. The nuns NEVER talked about reading the bible.
I would hear the readings at Mass, but I never made a biblical connection.
Also I never made a connection between the Eucharist and the body of Christ.
Today in church I met a 45 year old Roman Catholic and he told me his background.

I heard from him just about what I expressed above about me, **scary isn’t it?. **

And here was my response to Delraek
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3160463&postcount=101

Kolbe300

The message of not being of this world and living

your faith (not because you should but because you must) has been taught by the Catholic Church for 2000 years.

ok, I hope you see the difference when I say “universal” catholic church (which I am part of) not the Roman Catholic Church

No Catholic who knows their faith would have been shocked by his message at ALL. The Church has always taught it and the Bible has always taught it.

**Would you then have any objections to suggesting another Roman Catholic watch the video too?
**

I thank God that some Protestants are receiving that message because I have always said the “once saved always saved” idea is not only false, but terribly dangerous.

Absolutely, And I can not say all protestant believe that “once saved always saved” idea.

Unfortunately,.I have felt that some people have saw me as such no matter what I said.

My biggest fear is that there are a lot more Christian non RC’s who believe like I do and since we are not Roman Catholic we automatically fall under the “once saved always saved” umbrella

Do you know what I mean?

I could see from comments to his preaching that his message is not being received with open arms among many Protestants.

It is very controversial, but raw truth

The link also saddened me because I can see just how close he (and you, if you believe what he preaches) are to the fullness of Christian truth.

Every word, especially having the encounter with the big truck

You are missing out on the Sacraments which provide so much grace and help in mainting the walk on that “narrow path.”

I appreciate what you are saying. I know how much you value the sacrements. They are an intregal part of the Roman Catholic faith.

How ironic… you probably want me to have the grace which is provided through the sacrements just as must as I wish that you can accept the reality of the Promise of eternal life from God.

I mean no disrespect when I say that I hope and pray you may find your way back to the Sacraments and back to the Church that has always taught the “shocking” message you seem to have embraced.

Thank you I appreciate it.
You have a very caring heart and you want the best for me as I hope and pray for you.

May I say I mean no disrespect, I am experiencing the sacriments as below but not as “formal” a way as the Roman Catholic church and I am involved in His church.

I have been
Baptized (been baptized as infant and by immersion in my church)
Confirmedation (baptized with the Holy Spirit)
Holy Communion (we disagree on the :Real Presence", however the bottom line we receive Jesus in our heart, not our stomach.
Confession (every day I confess to Jesus)
Marriage (happily for 25 years),
Anointing of the Sick ( I have layed hands on the sick and I witnessed God’s miracle healing power right before my eyes, Praise God)
Holy Orders, not entering the priesthood, are you?

I do not look at it like that either. But I will never give up on Christ’s prayer in John 17 that we, as his children, will be one in all things as He and God are one in all things. The comments to Paul Washer’s message are a perfect example of why the unity is so needed. So many Protestants are left wondering who is right.

Agree there is a lot of confusion

Is Paul Washer right or is a different pastor right? Pastor Washer admits to the Baptist doctrine radically changing and now he is trying to radically change it back. God gave us a Church so we would never have to wonder who was right. And that Church’s doctrine will never radically change, as it hasn’t for 2000 years.

Kolbe, I honestly believe that as long as we christians realize that Jesus is the only way to the Father we will be ok of course by faith according to God’s word.

My fear is that there are RC’s like I once was who see the pope as God.

Or see Jesus in the Eucharist more than they see Jesus in heaven or Jesus who shed blood and died for our sins, or Jesus who is displayed behind the altar on the crucifix.

**You know what I mean? **

whatisthetruth, you said that you truly believe there is a reason you are here. I can only say that I absolutely agree with you.

I know why I am here, I am convinced.

There might be 30,000 plus non Catholic Christians and the Christians of the RCC, who found Jesus which ever way they found Him, who is the bridge who will take us to the Father. We all know that.

Together, as I mentioned previously lets join arms and fight Satan with the power of the fruit of the spirit, Galatians 5 22:23, and strive to free the 30,000,000 plus lost souls of the world.

Let us fight the GOOD fight IN LOVE and bring our prisoners home to Jesus

Sound like a plan?

God bless you and thanks for the link.
God bless you my friend

 

[Kolbe300]

Kolbe, I am not a protestant, I am a Christian in God’s catholic “universal” church, which includes all Christians.

Hi whatis! You are certainly a Christian and a kind one at that. But, as I’m sure you could guess, I believe God’s universal Church to be the Catholic (with a capital “C”) Church, rather than just the body of Christian believers. I believe that all Christians make up a body of believers, but not of the one visible true Church.

I believe what matters most is how, at least how I believe, God sees all of us.
I believe God sees two groups of people, the Christians and the non Christians

How God sees us is certainly the only view that matters. But I also believe that we are completely incapable of comprehending how God sees us. His divine vision is beyond our capabilities.

I never new what the words to the song Amazing Grace meant until a couple years ago

I just saw the movie about that song recently. A wonderful story. I didn’t know the story behind that song either.

Does…
my 100% assurity of going to heaven in my sleep equal
your faith and hope of going to heaven in your sleep?

It depends on whether or not you see your assurity as knowledge, rather than faith. I can know what God’s promise is and I can know the narrow path that leads to heaven but I cannot know a decision God has not yet made, nor will I try to make that decision for Him.

Whatis, here is the thing I’m not understanding. You seem so very sincere with this desire for everyone to be able to say with 100% assurity that they are going to heaven. At the same time that assurity can only be for the present minute. You’ve said it’s possible for you to lose your salvation tomorrow, next week, next month, or next year. You are the only Christian I’ve ever dealt with that places so much on the 100% assurance yet believes you can turn your back on salvation. I think that’s why people confuse you with a “once saved always saved” Christian. You have assurance of heaven when you go to bed at night, but you don’t have the assurance that you’re guaranteed heaven next week. That’s why I question the value placed on this “assurance.” I have hope that I will reach heaven whether I die tonight, tomorrow, or 50 years from now. That hope will never change no matter the situation. I trust in God’s love and mercy. Not “knowing” I’m going to heaven does not bother me in the least. Why? Because I have faith!

Well neither can I. However, It is hard to “stub my toe” in my sleep

You’ve got me there. Unless of course you fall out of bed.

Continued…

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisthetruth
…

Since Whatis has put me on his /ignore list, which he has told me specifically he’s done, it seems my questions and/or responses are a bit overly “difficult” for him.

IMPORTANT SAFETY TIP: Sometimes a NOT can be rather IMPORTANT!

“Well, D’uh!”, I hear you say! Yes indeed!

“NOT”, when not seen, is not the not I want to miss, but it’s not the not I did not miss, and in so doing KNOTTED myself into a nasty little corner!

The message that Whatis sent to me was that he was NOT ignoring me, and therein lies my big boo-boo!

But, other than any implications drawn for the misapprehension that he’d flown away from our conversation out of exasperation at being unable to “keep up” and “in” our conversation, everything below I still hold to, even though none of them now apply to Whatis!

This makes me quite HAPPY, actually, as I’ve gone from losing a possible friend with some “bad ideas”, to not having lost a possible friend with some “bad ideas”!

That is EXCELLENT! Now, onto whatever it is the Whatis has said in his NOT ignoring me. Tally Ho…

I was rather enjoying our conversation, but I really DO expect this sort of behavior from those who can’t support what they say and won’t tolerate hearing the truth.

In truth, we were understanding each other quite well, and that understanding was VERY uncomfortable to Whatis.

It would be nice if we could just get to where we could agree to disagree without one of us first derailing into the morass of sheer panic (and emotionality) at being unable to get to the base of what they think they believe because of a sudden realization that there is no support under their beliefs.

But, lack of responsiveness to truth-seeking is a hallmark of some “trends in Modern Christianity”.

That’s why I stick with the old school.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Hi CalmDownWisWins

I apologize I did not get to you, I am sorry if you felt I was ignoring you. But my plate is full. Not just with answering forum messages but with personal and family time too.

Please forgive me.

Here are answers to a lot of your posts. If I do not address a specific concern, please PM me so I do not miss it , thank you

Thanks for informing me of my REALLY BAD error! I misread your PM to me and somehow (I blame it on demons of course, as I’d forgotten to run my interpretation of your PM through the Magisterium as usual) the NOT in “am NOT ignoring you” didn’t register with my little gray cells, and thence I proceeded to make an “DONKEY’S BACKSIDE” out of myself.

Once again, really sorry about that, and I shall learn to actually read ALL the letters of the alphabet one of these days, such that “NOT” can be discerned from the “t”, “n” and “o” shaped ones.

Silly sorry sad sinful me!

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
I have no need to know what it is not my business to know.Therefore, No, I have no absolute assurance of heaven, and it would be the height of impertinence for me to assume that I am worthy of that information.

your eternal destiny is not a concern to you??

UHHHHHHH…!!

OK, let’s agree to TRY to hear each other, OK!?

I’m utterly interested in my SALVATION. I’m NOT in the least interested in any ASSURANCE of my salvation!

My job is to worry about my salvation, not getting assurance of it.

If I HAD assurance of salvation, I wouldn’t have to worry about ding anything more to ATTAIN it, now would I?

This is why when you claim to have “assurance”, yet are still concerned with “doing what you must do to please God”, you de-define the word “assurance” to mean something other than “assurance”, in such a way that you believe EXACTLY as I do, which is that we can’t KNOW in this life whether we’re “GUARANTEED” (aka your “old” definition of “assured”) salvation!

Now, can we PLEASE move on to some other aspect of this issue?

 

[Kolbe300]

I never read the bible
My family did not own one.

Again, no offense, but that makes me question how much effort was being taken by your family to know their faith.

In Catholic school, the chatecism was our “bible”. The nuns NEVER talked about reading the bible.

And the Catechism says that to be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ. Did your family own a Catechism?

I would hear the readings at Mass, but I never made a biblical connection.
Also I never made a connection between the Eucharist and the body of Christ.

I don’t see this as a fault of the Catholic Church. Certainly some priests and religious ed teachers aren’t the best, but if parents make any effort to know their faith their children would know what they are hearing at Mass and would know the Eucharist is the Body of Christ. Did you go to religious education all those years?

I heard from him just about what I expressed above about me, scary isn’t it?.

What is scary is the failure of parents to live up to the promise they make to God at baptism to teach their children the faith. It’s scary and it’s sad.

Would you then have any objections to suggesting another Roman Catholic watch the video too?

I wouldn’t object to a Catholic listening to any preacher they want to listen to. If a Catholic knows their faith, they’ll know when they are listening to something that isn’t true.

Unfortunately,.I have felt that some people have saw me as such no matter what I said.

I think it’s because the 100% assurance thing is almost always associated with “once saved always saved”.

My biggest fear is that there are a lot more Christian non RC’s who believe like I do and since we are not Roman Catholic we automatically fall under the “once saved always saved” umbrella

My biggest fear has nothing to do with what Catholics think of any non Catholic. My fear is for those Christians who think they are going to heaven no matter what.

How ironic… you probably want me to have the grace which is provided through the sacrements just as must as I wish that you can accept the reality of the Promise of eternal life from God.

See, this isn’t fair. You’ve got your wish but I haven’t got mine! I have completely and utterly accpeted the reality of God’s promise of eternal life. I also know that promise means I must be a reflection of Jesus Christ to this world. That being said, you’re still missing out on the grace I wish for you!!

Holy Orders, not entering the priesthood, are you?

No, I’m not. But I was touched by the Holy Orders when I was confirmed. I’m touched by it every time I go to Confession and I’m touched by it every time I receive Holy Communion. The Holy Orders is a huge part of my life even though I’m not a priest.

Holy Communion (we disagree on the :Real Presence", however the bottom line we receive Jesus in our heart, not our stomach.

I will respectfully disagree with you here. Communion outside of the Catholic Church is nothing even remotely close to the reality of the Eucharist. I have no doubt that you receive Jesus in your heart, but the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Eucharist is beneficial and priceless beyond our ability to comprehend. And it breaks my heart that so many are not receiving that.

continued…

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
The consequences of being assured of that which can’t be assured is a less likelyhood of being granted the thing thought assured.

I agree IF it can not be assured

I had to laugh at this one, as your statement is nonsensical in relation to my statement.

You really had NO IDEA what I said in my verbage above, did you?

Let’s leave it at, YOU believe that “assurance” (which you can’t define as meaning “assurance”) IS possible, as an axiom (meaning: you don’t need to or can support it as it is “revealed truth”).

We’ll have to agree to disagree about that axiom of yours.

 

[Kolbe300]

My fear is that there are RC’s like I once was who see the pope as God.

If Catholics see the pope as God, I’m guessing they don’t have a Bible at home and they go to mass on Christmas and Easter. In other words, they are completely ignorant of their faith.

Or see Jesus in the Eucharist more than they see Jesus in heaven or Jesus who shed blood and died for our sins, or Jesus who is displayed behind the altar on the crucifix.

See, that’s just it whatis. The Jesus in the Eucharist IS the Jesus in heaven and it IS the Jesus who shed blood and died for our sins. And when we receive Jesus in the Eucharist we receive grace for our body, mind, and soul so that we are truly one body in Christ. It is that grace which helps us to see Christ in the least of those around us.

Let us fight the GOOD fight IN LOVE and bring our prisoners home to Jesus

I’m always up for that fight. God bless you and have a great week!

Peace!

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Catholics have no need of assurance of heaven before either receiving it or not.

Wow, Do you asume you will go to Heaven?
You aren’t worried if you will wind up in hell??

I am sorry but that is the way you come across.

please help me understand

We do not assume that we will go to heaven. We are worried we will wind up in hell.

We have no need of having “personal” ASSURANCE of salvation, because salvation is a result of our cooperation with God’s grace, and we’re too busy trying to be as cooperative as possible to be worried about looking for the “Wonka Golden Ticket” into heaven that you seem to call “ASSURANCE”.

Protestants, on the other hand, are seemingly too busy minting “Wonka Golden Tickets”, and “miraculously” FINDING them where they left them, to worry about cooperating FULLY with God’s graces given to them.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
by Namesake 31
Oh come on now. You make this way too difficult. Protestants believe that by accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior and Lord, and repenting of sin, life eternal is assured, through Christ. It’s that simple. Don’t make it so difficult.

We have our eye on our pilgrim journey, not on finding a “magic rope” which, when we fall on our path, at our death, will “yank” us into Jerusalem.

I am sorry you see salvation as a magic rope…I sure do not

I’m beginning to see what’s going on here!

You think salvation IS assurance. That one is necessarily where the other is! That salvation IS assurance, and that assurance IS salvation.

That is the ONLY way you could confuse the “magic rope” (above) with “salvation”.

Having “**assured **salvation”, better known in this discussion as simply “assurance”, is the “magic rope”, because by “magic rope” I mean a “lifeline” which will rescue you from **ANY **misstep.

There ARE missteps which will lose one salvation, and if so, the “magic rope” is no longer “magic” because it is not “utterly reliable” (which defines “assured”).

Your view is in error because assurance is simply a self-delusion, as the “magic” can be broken, and assurance and salvation are NOT the same thing, if only because salvation does exist.

Since you NEED to have “assurance” to exist to have “salvation” exist, it’s perfectly understandable that you will do ANYTHING to justify the existence of “assurance”.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Being on the path to perfection before dying is the goal.

Maybe for you.
The Goal for me is to be a loving witness of my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, as to impact the lost souls of this world and let them see how God’s love has changed my life.

What do you suppose I meant by “being on the path to perfection”?

Apparently, you assume that “perfection”, as I used it, is somehow “inferior” to your goals?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Catholics believe that “being saved” is a singular event.

Once one is saved, or not, the event is over and is irreproducible and irrevocable.

Please explain

Are you going to listen this time? Let’s hope so.

One is not saved until one is saved. One does not “win” until one “crosses the finish line”. One “crosses the finish line” only when one actually “crosses the finish line”.

One does not “win” UNTIL “one crosses the finish line”.

One is not “saved” UNTIL the race is over. To claim to have “won” without having first “crossed the finish line” is called what?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
We can live with what God has told us we are to live with, which is being perpetually UNSURE while alive of any assurance of our destiny.

In other words, the bridge may be out down the road you are on, but do not tell you until you get there, and If you do not see the missing piece of road in time, you a goner. you however hope you see the missing road in time,

Is that what you are saying?

You claim that you KNOW when you will be faced with difficulties before there is any “normal” evidence of those difficulties?

Why is knowing that the bridge is out ahead when I’m supposed to know when the bridge is out ahead, and not before I’m supposed to know the bridge is out ahead, a bad thing?

Since you think that "salvation"and “assurance” are “co-substantial”, that they are equally present whenever either is present, if anyone threatens your “assurance” they also threaten your salvation. That explains 99% of what you have said on this thread.

To me, there can never BE a bridge out (a missing piece of the road) such that my way to heaven is blocked. The only threat to my salvation is my foolishly choosing to leave the road, and wind up in hell.

My road, which is not “mine” in possession but only in use, always leads to heaven because God built it, laid it down for us to see and follow, and if I were to close my eyes in the “assurance” that “the direction I’m travelling now leads to heaven”, then the next “turn”, laid down by GOD, would find me off the path and onward toward hell.

You REALLY need to understand what YOU mean by “assurance”. That single error, corrected, will allow you to choose to all of God’s graces, and not only those you “knew” before you closed your eyes while running on God’s mysterious meandering road.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
You prefer to choose to ignore God

From my recent post, can you really say I am ignoring God?

Yes. Most certainly. We all do. We all, hopefully, snap out of our “ignorance” and listen a bit more intently.

You are “assured your salvation”, though not assured of it tomorrow, which makes “assurance” mean, WHAT exactly?

Because you are “assured”, you need only do what you want to do, those things which make you happy to do, instead of that which God has told you specifically to do, and you are MORE than justified in ignoring God’s “other un-necessities” because “God”, or someone who seems to be God, has told you “you’re safe”.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote CalmD:
You prefer to choose to ignore God and construe through misinterpretation of scripture an ASSURANCE where there is none.

you sure about that?,
Did you ask God?

Yes, I am sure of that. God’s source for us of that kind of knowledge is the Church. The Church says the kind of assurance that you claim to know is unknowable.

If you DO claim to know the unknowable, then it is either you, or your source, which can not be from God, that is in error.

We must take questions of truth in faith and morals only to the Church for verification of truthfulness. There is no other way to know the “spirit” of the source of the information, whether divine or demonic, we get, otherwise.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
The thief had the chance to mortally sin when Jesus finished His sentence and before he died, but JESUS is GOD and knew that the thief was not to do that!

So why can not Jesus tell us the same spiritually?

He can!

But, I’m not going to be presumptuous with God and ASSUME that He WILL, or even DOES!

If you want to take that chance, you’re welcome to it.

You choose to live your life under the presumption that you will, WITH THE ASSURANCE OF GOD, be saved while not trying to do His FULL will, because if the Good Thief could be ASSURED heaven without all those “unecessary commands of God”, you will be saved because you’re not only MORE WORTHY than the Good Thief, but you been made to “feel assured” by people not in full communion with the Church who are VERY skilled rhetoricians, and to “feel” assured is to “be” assured, as you’re “sure” that only the Holy Spirit could make you feel that way!

Other powers are VERY good at making people feel that way.