Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
We are told (by the Church) that we are NOT to accept “visions” (revelations) which may be from God as reliable without the interpretation of the whole Church.

AH so that is why, you are told by the church.

Yes. That IS it! You’ve finally heard what I’ve been telling you all this time? THE CHURCH is the ONLY authority in existence that can infallibly make a decision of any matter of faith and morals!

I’m SO glad you’ve finally unplugged your ears!

Ok , Let me ask you a real serious question,

In the room is “the church” on the left side of the room and GOD on the right side of the room and you have a serious question which needs to be answered.

There is a long line waiting on the church’s side of the room. On GOD’s side of the room is just me and 3 protestants in prayer before God,

What do you do?

What you pose as “God” is not God.

You are worshipping at the altar of “Comfort”, and if you continue to do so, your “comfort” will drag you to hell.

The line in front of the Church mose quite well enough, thank you.

Should I not get to Church before I die, since I will have been praying all the while in line to be understood for doing my best to the REAL God, His mercy may allow me to choose Him over my various self-satisfactions.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Since we have no way to know if our “revelation” that “Jesus just told me that I’m perfectly saved until I mortally sin again” as being true, we have no assurance, unlike the good thief, of the truth of our “interpretation” of “assured salvation”.

My friend that is where trust comes in. You did ask in the thread, what is means to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

PM me we will talk about it.

I trust in Him. You don’t. That’s why you fail to do what He says, and do so on a habitual basis.

I have no interest in depriving the other people here of your “wisdom”. Please, if you have some for us, do tell.

If you have something that would help me, then you have something that would help US, and it would be uncharitable of you to not share it with the rest of our brothers.

Do tell. Unless working in the shadows is the way you like to do things? Who works like that, again? Hmmmm…

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Purgatory is the guarantee of reaching heaven.The protestant refuses to believe that
any “cleansing” is neccessary

Ahhh there is where you believe the guarantee is. I do not believe in Purgatory, but I am curious, how does one know they will make it to purgatory to be clenased and where is that in the bible?

We can start with this: Purgatory
(( Drawn from this: MORE Purgatory ))

I’m not going to convince you of purgatory any more than anything else, of course, so we’ll leave that for another time.

But, your contention that I think there is any “guarantee” of salvation due to purgatory is quite incorrect. Purgatory is reached just as your concept of “non-purgatory-containing heaven” is reached, by choosing God at our end by agreeing to the truth of being “Godly”.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
The thing you refuse to accept is that you ARE a member of the Body of Christ,

Waht would cause you to say that?

Read the next line…

Quote:
and that Body is the Church (Catholic), though you are not in fullest communion with her.

Not with the Roman Catholic church but I am very much part of God’s “universal” catholic church

A “universal universal church”? Why two “universals”?

Your misidentifications of what the Body of Christ is, and what “catholic” means, and what “church” means, all of them being at variance with the Church (Catholic), is the source cause of all your theological problems.

Heretics always seize up, and seize onto some fraction of the full deposit of faith, and allow the demonic tale-telling to spin away at breakneck speed to justify those “out of context truths” being “sufficient” for salvation.

Your lack of an infallible source of truth has created the “simplistic chaos” that is protestant Christianity.

Quote:
Therefore, you might be saved in the end,

God has saved me. I hope down the road I do not reject heaven. Right now there is no better choice, agree?

You now reject doing as God has told you. If you call that a non-rejection of God then best to you in this life, and do as much good as you can, as you’ll find it may have made others more happy but will avail you nothing where you’re headed should you not “repent” (turn toward God in the known fullest).

Though, once again, you may not know God in the fullest and not be culpable of your rejection of Him, but you’ve proven yourself really quite capable of understanding you predicament, and that doesn’t bode well for you.

Are you sure that is not your hope to be saved at the end?

You can not clain you will go to heaven should you did right now

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Kolbe, I honestly believe that as long as we christians realize that Jesus is the only way to the Father we will be ok of course by faith according to God’s word.

Your “God’s Word” is not THE God’s Word. That is your problem, and your “show” of “ecumenism” is simply asking Catholics to bring Christianity to the “lowest common denominator” state, which diminishes God by diminishing the importance of th “All Important”!

My fear is that there are RC’s like I once was who see the pope as God.

You can certainly claim to have been a Catholic, but when you say things like that you demonstrate that you were NOT a Catholic during the time you held that belief, and undercut your argument for your being “more Godly” than those who follow all of God’s Word.

Or see Jesus in the Eucharist more than they see Jesus in heaven or Jesus who shed blood and died for our sins, or Jesus who is displayed behind the altar on the crucifix.

You know what I mean?

As “pope” of the church of Whatis, you know “best”. Amen, and may God be merciful to us all.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi sodak,

Whatis,

I know what the promises of the Gospel are. I understand wanting to be assured.

It not about me wanting to be assured, It is a matter of what God promised you, that is why I personalized John 3:16 and and directed to you.

It has nothing to do with you tube it has everything to do with God
God loves you
And because you believe in Him (Jesus)
God gave you eternal life

If that is not a promise of salvation, what does John 3:16 mean to you?

please explain

tell me how you believe I am wrong from John 3:16
What does John 3:16 mean to you? .

It drives me closer to the Church that Jesus founded, and want to stay under it’s wing that much more.

John 3:16 drives me closer to God

I’ll take the word of the Magesterium over a youtube video.

I’ll take the word of God, the you tube video comfirmed what God already said

I think that evangelical attempts to draw people away from the Church of Christ is the work of the devil to pull us into heresy.

Did you read my comments to Kolbe?

do you still feel the same?

I hope you reconsider.

As I hope you reconsider

God bless you

truth

 

[Chellow]

If today you die not accepting the Catholic Church due to your ignorance or innocence of Church teaching, due to no fault of your own, the Churches states you could go to Heaven, if you had a perfect act of contrition before you die.

Notice I said could, and that goes for most of us Catholics, I think the Church holds Gods salvation to us as a Mystery. How can we say were going to Heaven if even Paul didn’t know in (Phil 2:12). I ask you what was Paul trembling about?

 

[Refugium]

If today you die not accepting the Catholic Church due to your ignorance or innocence of Church teaching, due to no fault of your own, the Churches states you could go to Heaven, if you had a perfect act of contrition before you die.

Notice I said could, and that goes for most of us Catholics, I think the Church holds Gods salvation to us as a Mystery. How can we say were going to Heaven if even Paul didn’t know in (Phil 2:12). I ask you what was Paul trembling about?

How could he/she be “ignorant of the Church through no fault of their own”?..they’re on a Catholic Answers forum! And since when does ignorance excuse anyone?
Whatever happened to the DOGMA of “Outside the Catholic Church Is No Salvation?”

 

[emphaticbigot]

Peace brother!

Hello there! I am with a little concern about your much desire to be 100% assured of salvation. What i learned from your replies to others here is that you are assured of just one thing, i.e., that you are to die tonight (or just a scenario) but even so with the given scenario you seem to be in a state of uncertainty which in that regard you are seeking 100% of certainty. That is sad.
We are saved by faith, hope, and love. Therefore, as Catholics we have Faith in Jesus Christ as our savior; we have Hopes in the Holy Spirit that is working in the Church through the Sacraments and the sanctifying graces we receive from them; therefore we Love to live up to what we believe by giving justice to our every relationships (God, others, nature, and self). As you have stated, you are a great sinner (scenario). That means, you have not given justice to all of your relationships, reason enough for you to be fearful of not being saved. You are wanting of salvation, and that is grace from God who wants you to come to Him at the last breath of yours. So, all you have to do is ACT upon it! It is only in doing so that you can be assured of SALVATION 100%. Do not put yourself in the position of the thief that was crucified with Jesus. YOU ARE NOT. Rather, put yourself in the loving embrace of God (that has begun by putting you in the state of confusion about 100% assurance of salvation) in the Sacraments of the Church.
My question is (with the given scenario): What prevents you from receiving the Sacraments??? Don’t you believe in the Sacraments??? (If not, then do not. It will not help you. But if you do, it will definitely gives you salvation.)
If you truly desire to attain salvation and be assured before you die of becoming saved and you believe that being RECONCILED with God is the only way that saves you then be it so. Do not seek for answer to your questions if you are not ready to accept the ANSWER. Pray that the TRUTH may set you free. And that you may be docile enough to accept Him. Because as I see it, you are not really after truth. . you are after satisfaction which comes from your restlessness and state of confusion. “You cannot conduct yourself when you are in doubt.” That’s what i learn from philosophy. God Bless bro!

 

[natsclem]

As long as you die in a State of Grace, then you will be in Heaven. It sounds tricky, confusing, and perhaps blasphemous to what you already believe in whichever denomination you belong. But if you pray that Christ will grant you the grace to understand

That’s the humility of St.Paul.

If and when one sets himself above the rest as saved is the moment that he loses assurance of salvation because God detests the proud and arrogant.

 

[natsclem]

I agree, righteousone, a deathbed conversion is indeed improbable. Which makes evangelization and our own daily conversion all the more important. Thank you for the clarification.

i think the boundless of God’s mercy is manifested is when a publicly known sinner spent long time bedridden and then suddenly ask for a priest and died after the administration of the last sacrament. others get well and have lived a holy life.

i think we should not entertain the concept of statistical im/probability in this matter.

**For whatisthetruth **

The most certain Catholic teaching is that salvation is by grace alone and we are capable of rejecting that grace. time is immaterial. If one dies rejecting grace, he/she is doomed for all eternity. If one who has lived 20 years of holy life but dies in mortal sin for even a single act of mind will be doomed for all eternity. If one who has lived his/her whole life in sin but, at the moment before death, accepts grace (salvific) is saved but, of course, he/she will undergo purification in the state of Purgatory (see 1 Corinthians 3:12-15).

It is God’s prerogative–those He wishes to be saved, He saves. Who can question His freedom? In fact (by the testimony of the scripture), He wants all to be saved. But, He did not remove freewill from humankind. Because of that, not all will end up being saved (in heaven already). He gives us enough grace to be able to receive grace. His grace is always enough to enable us carry the burden of persevering in Christ lest our faith fails in doing His work on earth. But, we can reject that grace. Like for example the simple rejection of the totality of the Word of God in scriptures by accepting only the “faith alone” and rejecting James 2:14-26. the protestants by doing that is rejecting the grace of Catholic Faith.

As a matter of fact, in the judgment seat: it is not based on faith but by charity (Matthew 7:21-29). I believe that applies under ordinary circumstances. Will the protestants be saved by faith alone? Confessing or declaring by mouth that “I am saved and therefore I am assured of enjoying heaven for all eternity” does not make one assured of heaven. Such mouths will be rebuked and dismissed by the Lord: “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Separated brother (if you are whatisthetruth, I implore you, in Jesus Name who is all Mercy and Just, turn away from the deceptions of satan, come to the Catholic Church which He built upon Peter, whom He has given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven–the authority that He never gave to Luther or Calvin or Wesley or Henry VIII. It is the Ark of Salvation and the Pillar of Truth regardless of our sinfulness. Come join us so that you will also be filled with God’s graciousness most intimately shared to us in the form of bread and wine–the Holy Eucharist.

Resist no more, for TODAY IS MERCY, THE FUTURE IS JUSTICE.

 

[Chellow]

How could he/she be “ignorant of the Church through no fault of their own”?..they’re on a Catholic Answers forum! And since when does ignorance excuse anyone?
Whatever happened to the DOGMA of “Outside the Catholic Church Is No Salvation?”

Please see the link below from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that states.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

clerus.org/clerus/dati/1998-12/10-6/CCC_1.rtf.html

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Marco,

I am sorry, I missed this ,

You are welcome. In defense of varc, I understood him to be saying if you know yourself that the Church is true and you reject it you are doomed. He understood you to be saying this. I did not understand you to be saying this. **Either way, it is not productive for you to focus on a lone voice as what the Church teaches. **

What is more important, the teachings of the church or the teachings of God?
**The vast majority of knowledgeable Catholics will explain it to you in a loving way. **

Thank you, I am sure there are a lot of areas in the Chatecism and Council of trent that I am not familiar.

Right now, I am focused on the teachings right from God himself.

May I ask?

sure

Do you pray for your salvation? To be lead to heaven?

Yes I do…every time I am stupid enough to allow myself to sin,
May God keep me strong to stand firm to Satan’s temptations along my spiritual journey

**Or since you understand it guaranteed, **

To have a better understanding of my belief of “guaranteed,”
look at my post to Kolbe

do you focus on other prayers?

Absolutely. I am about to start a thread on a prayer I have.

Marco, and everyone else are most welcome to join in. The more that join in, the better chance that the prayer of my heart, I hope and pray of many Christian’s heart, will be answered.

Thank you Marco

God and every one else here.

I just realized my passion, and the reason God called me here.

Without all of you and all the loving care and feedback you have provided, with a little “spice” added, I could not have realized my calling.

Look for the thread, a prayer for the 3,000,000+ prisoners.

God bless you all

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi all.

I want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart sharing with me your thoughts and beliefs on the subject I introduced in the OP.

You have given me more insight into the Catholic faith than I ever knew when I was a Catholic.

At this point I have decided to stop posting on the thread due to the fact I believe you have all addressed my OP to the best in which your faith lets you answer. And, likewise, I believe I have answered all your questions to the best of my heart in the way God has led me.

If you have a question that you feel I have not answered on the thread, I invite you to PM.

Having said that, I am not leaving the site. For those who have not noticed, I will be watching

A prayer for the 3,000,000+ prisoners I just started
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=214964

“Shine Jesus Shine”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=212973

“Tired of debating? Let’s agree on Jesus”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=208185

How do you believe God sees you?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=210586

I hope to see you there.

God bless you all

truth

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

…

At this point I have decided to stop posting on the thread due to the fact I believe you have all addressed my OP to the best in which your faith lets you answer. And, likewise, I believe I have answered all your questions to the best of my heart in the way God has led me.

…

Thanks for **not **answering all my questions. I very much appreciate being shown the true character of one who purports to come here and “evangelize” less of the truth than we already possess. If only you would learn from those with the greater truth would I be even more grateful to you for showing us that miraculous grace of God.

May you continue to show Catholics their wisdom in being Catholics.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Thanks for informing me of my REALLY BAD error! I misread your PM to me and somehow (I blame it on demons of course, as I’d forgotten to run my interpretation of your PM through the Magisterium as usual) the NOT in “am NOT ignoring you” didn’t register with my little gray cells, and thence I proceeded to make an “DONKEY’S BACKSIDE” out of myself.

Once again, really sorry about that, and I shall learn to actually read ALL the letters of the alphabet one of these days, such that “NOT” can be discerned from the “t”, “n” and “o” shaped ones.

Silly sorry sad sinful me!

Hi CalmDownWisWins

Oops, I should have looked at the thread before posting my closing comments, In time i will try to answer everything to this point.

CalmDownWisWins, Thank you for acknowledging the error, it is a 2 way street, Maybe I could have been a little more clearer in my message, my apologies for that, so it is not totally your fault.

Anyway,** I forgive you your apology accepted/B I hold no grudges, as far as I am concerned the path is clear for you to enter heaven,

Bad news though, I do not have the keys. At least you got by me. I wont hold you back

God bless,

truth**

 

[sodak]

Hey WhatIs,

Thanks for not being a drive-by! I really appreciate your stamina! Even though we’ll probably have to agree to disagree on certain things, you have definitely shown that you are hanging in there and trying!

 

[Philthy]

I’m beginning to see what’s going on here!

You think salvation IS assurance. That one is necessarily where the other is! That salvation IS assurance, and that assurance IS salvation.

Well, you are getting closer to understanding. Our good friend believes that he has infallible assurance of his own salvation based, NOT on personal divine revelation, but based upon his fallible (he admits this) understanding of Scripture. We have said over and over that such knowledge simply is not “absolutely certain” in the manner he wishes to have it. And its not good enough for him to simply have “reasonable assurance” like we do that, say, the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. He needs to have “absolute assurance” of the verdict of God’s judgement now - before God actually judges him.
The most unusual part of it is that this assurance which he seeks is an assurance of something that never actually takes place! His assurance is that IF he had died right now that he would go to heaven - but he doesnt actually die “right now” and therefore, what is the point?
It really is the concept of “absolute certainty” that has us speaking past one another. He does not seem to understand that, apart from divine revelation, he simply has the “assurance of faith” which is a tremendous blessing, but does not meet the criteria of “absolute certainty”. It’s not really worth this much effort…

 

[Refugium]

Please see the link below from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that states.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

clerus.org/clerus/dati/1998-12/10-6/CCC_1.rtf.html

OK…so you can mindlessly quote the New Catechism. Great!
Back to my question–under the Church’s definition of “invincible ignorance”, how is someone who is on a Catholic Answers Forum (for pete’s sake!) deemed “invincibly ignorant”? Such a person is not ignorant and certainly not invincibly so.

And when does “invincible ignorance” ever save anyone? No one will be damned for being invincibly ignorant–this does not mean they will not be damned for some other reason.

 

[Chellow]

OK…so you can mindlessly quote the New Catechism. Great!
Back to my question–under the Church’s definition of “invincible ignorance”, how is someone who is on a Catholic Answers Forum (for pete’s sake!) deemed “invincibly ignorant”? Such a person is not ignorant and certainly not invincibly so.

And when does “invincible ignorance” ever save anyone? No one will be damned for being invincibly ignorant–this does not mean they will not be damned for some other reason.

My understanding is, one who is, and knows the truth of the Catholic Church is held bond by the “Outside of the Church is No Salvation”.

Just because some one visits this forum, be he or she Catholic or not does not mean they are endowed with any knowledge of the true faith. Truth can disguise it’s self and only though grace and love are we going to be united with each other.