Is there salvation outside of the Church?

[joannazenobia]

This is what I believe.

Fact: Jesus created the sacraments, including the “Ministry of Reconcilliation”.

Fact: Jesus took his finger dipped it in oil and annointed all his disciples saying go heal and exorsice demons and find more disciples. This tradition continues. The Pope is a successor of St. Peter, who was a successor of Jesus, who was ordered by him to build his church. “WHat you bind on Earth will be bound in heaven, what you don’t bind on earth will not be bound in heaven”. Those were his exact words.

The Bishops are successors of the Apostles. That is why we call the “Fathers” because like Jesus, they are called 'Sheppard" the flock of the church to God. A Priest lays down his life for us, he is the bridge between God and man.

That is why ONLY Bishops can ordain Priests, and ONLY Bishops can confirm catechists. My Bishop annointed me with oil on my foreahead like Jesus annointed his disciples. Thereby the power of the Holy Spirit is passed on from one to the next.

BUT I can’t tell anyone what they should believe. Yes, the church does teach that salvation comes from one united apostolic church, but it also teaches that the truth and faith can not be forced on anyone. People cannot be forced to believe the Catholic faith and that also goes against Catholic teaching.

God gave us a power of free will so we can learn to love him freely. He doesn’t want people to be forced to love him.

That is the mystery of faith. The mystery of God. Only when our lips our silent can our prayers truly be answered. They say you should listen more than you speak and prayer is no exception. Meaning that in our prayers we need to keep silent and listen to God more than we speak or talk endlessly of prayers.

All I can say, is be candid with God. Say, “God reveal the truth to me” and he will.

 

[distracted]

Holding on to the faith during this apostasy takes a little more effort than it did in the past. * Today you can’t always trust the Priest*, but we have something today that past generations did not; namely, we can access anything we desire relatively easily. If we have a computer (and all of us here do), we can find the answer to just about any question we have.

So, it takes a little more effort to keep the faith today, but the good God will reward our efforts.

for sure that highlighted thing…

i don’t trust ev:erything my priest says because long ago he made it clear that he wasn’t totally Catholic…(my view)… probably has 2 personalities, oneCatholic and one not. He acts like the greatest sin is not to “enjoy life”… never mentions sins virtually everyone is commiting like artif b-control, impure acts w/ self. etc…

i just wonder how much of what he says the others swallow whole… don’t speak with them much so don’t know… I think some people are like sheep when JEsus does not want them to be… like when something is being said that is not in conformity w/ Church teaching. i think there are a lot of masons in the Church supposedly acting as priests… can’t say that about mine but just wondering why he is like this…

 

[wisdomseeker]

Gosh, reading all those pronouncements by Popes troubles me. I am a ‘big tent’ Protestant

** To begin with, I leave such matters up to God. But Jesus did speak of other sheep “not of this fold”. **

i think Jesus is talking about the gentiles coming into His Church. since Jesus came only to the Jews later the gentiles were grafted into Judaism. Jesus was not preaching to gentiles but to His people.

i am sure He is not speaking about any one being outside His Church. as a matter of fact everything written is for the people of God in the Church and not for outsiders.

people seemed to be confused about this.

 

[Roy5]

wisdomseeker

It seems to me that Jesus gave special attention to outsiders. Takem for example, the parable of the Good Samaritan. To begin with, he was asked how to obtain eternal life. He didn't answer by saying believe this or that or join a particular church. He said love God and love our neighbor..

Then the lawyer (as I recall) asked him who was our neighbor. Who did he highlight as the good guy? The priest? The Levite? No, a Samaritan, a member of a despised group who had intermarried outside the Jewish faith and who had a different religion, including a different center for that religion (not Jerusalem). 

 The same is true when the ten lepers come. Who was the only one who returned to thank him for their healing? The Samaritan.

  These and other passages in the Bible suggest to me that salvation is not restricted to those in any church, but those who love God and love one another. I expect to meet Christians of all sorts, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. in heaven. To send millions of fine people to hell or even purgatory would contradict God's justice seasoned with mercy.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

wisdomseeker

It seems to me that Jesus gave special attention to outsiders. Takem for example, the parable of the Good Samaritan. To begin with, he was asked how to obtain eternal life. He didn't answer by saying believe this or that or join a particular church. He said love God and love our neighbor..

Then the lawyer (as I recall) asked him who was our neighbor. Who did he highlight as the good guy? The priest? The Levite? No, a Samaritan, a member of a despised group who had intermarried outside the Jewish faith and who had a different religion, including a different center for that religion (not Jerusalem). 

 The same is true when the ten lepers come. Who was the only one who returned to thank him for their healing? The Samaritan.

  These and other passages in the Bible suggest to me that [SIGN]salvation is not restricted to those in any church, [/SIGN]but those who love God and love one another. I expect to meet Christians of all sorts, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. in heaven. To send millions of fine people to hell or even purgatory would contradict God's justice seasoned with mercy.

I agree with you. But as a RC I do not see my church as a church. Some people see a church as a building where a Priest, preacher, etc talks. I see my Church as being Christ. That is the big difference. People tend to judge the Church on what a Priest does or does not do. That is not right, the Priest is human, he sins, he cannot be perfect like the CHurch is. You cannot take Jesus from his Church. If you see the CHurch as Jesus here on earth, you would have to agree there is no salvation without it. It i just many people do not see Jesus as the living Church.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

for sure that highlighted thing…

i [SIGN]don’t trust ev:erything my priest says [/SIGN]because long ago he made it clear that he wasn’t totally Catholic…(my view)… probably has 2 personalities, oneCatholic and one not. He acts like the greatest sin is not to “enjoy life”… never mentions sins virtually everyone is commiting like artif b-control, impure acts w/ self. etc…

i just wonder how much of what he says the others swallow whole… don’t speak with them much so don’t know… I think some people are like sheep when JEsus does not want them to be… like when something is being said that is not in conformity w/ Church teaching. i think there are a lot of masons in the Church supposedly acting as priests… can’t say that about mine but just wondering why he is like this…

Distracted we as Catholic’s do not see a Priest as perfect. So we do not hold him as being so. I cannot see a Priest in the RC being a mason for this is forbidden in the RCC.

You could possibly have a Priest in your church that does need help, I do not know. But if the Priest is teaching something other then the faith he should be removed. And I am sure in time this will be taken care of. But for now the best thing to do is pray for him, and maybe you just do not understand his ways or teaching. But I believe that God let him become a Priest for a purpose, and sometimes only God can know the reason.

But the main thing is, he is a priest, has the Power of the HS to forgive sin, etc. But I cannot see a priest not being Catholic. Your view could be shadowed also. But I feel if he is a Priest, others in the Church would report him to the Bishop is he was doing wrong.

But remember we are not to judge him. God will. While you may not agree with his teachings methods I am sure he is doing the will of God the best he can. Maybe his way of teaching to enjoy life the best you can, and live everyday to the fullest may not be the teaching you agree with, it may help others. I personally agree with him, I think you should make everyday the best you can, and thank God for the wonderful gift. My Dad always said everyday is a gift and I believe that. Its how you want to enjoy that gift. Like any other gift you enjoy it, embrace it, or you throw it away.

 

[Lutheranteach]

why ar you Lutheran when you could be Catholic?

I AM Lutheran because I could be Catholic

 

[wisdomseeker]

wisdomseeker

It seems to me that Jesus gave special attention to outsiders. Takem for example, the parable of the Good Samaritan. To begin with, he was asked how to obtain eternal life. He didn't answer by saying believe this or that or join a particular church. He said love God and love our neighbor..

Then the lawyer (as I recall) asked him who was our neighbor. Who did he highlight as the good guy? The priest? The Levite? No, a Samaritan, a member of a despised group who had intermarried outside the Jewish faith and who had a different religion, including a different center for that religion (not Jerusalem). 

 The same is true when the ten lepers come. Who was the only one who returned to thank him for their healing? The Samaritan.

  These and other passages in the Bible suggest to me that salvation is not restricted to those in any church, but those who love God and love one another. I expect to meet Christians of all sorts, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. in heaven. To send millions of fine people to hell or even purgatory would contradict God's justice seasoned with mercy.

Jesus has died for the Church He built. dont take this light.

Jesus gave an example how His people should be like. something that protestants tend to use against the CC. good works!

Jesus also said that any one who does good to His people, He would not forget them.

it is a blasphemy for someone to discard the Church Jesus built as if it does not mean anything.

at the time of the Apostles everyone baptized they were baptized into the Church and not just baptized to go their own way.

Jesus warned about divisions. you know about the CC, yet you reject it. how is this going to be good for you? is it your unbelief excused? i think not.

i know protestants want to believe that back then, the Church was like protestants churches. show me history of anyone, the Saints, anyone who believed what protestants preach today about the Church, Body, and Blood of Christ. please, show me. you cant, but you insist in your err.
I expect all peoples to be in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. the Kingdom of God is not divided and it is not meant for people to believe whatever they want about God. God has given us instruct to follow and obey. one cannot get this just by reading the Bible alone. this is not about pride, it is not about who wins, this is not a competition. this is about obedience to God. this is not about obedience to the Pope or bishops.

O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine