Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?!

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englands123 said:
So someone who loves God and lives an upright life and prays regularly.

But is neither baptised or attends Church will not be entering in to Heaven ?

If that is the case then I have learned something today and apologise.
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From your posts, it appears that you have not read the Catechism section on salvation for those from other faiths. As other posters have stated, this topic has been covered many, many times on the forum already.

I would strongly urge you to read the relevant, current Catechism section regarding people of other faiths, because you called another Catholic above “wrong” who was posting the direct teaching from the Catechism, which you as a Catholic should know and are bound to believe.

The relevant sections start here at about section 836.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

The bottom line is that
  • we do not know for sure who will and will not be saved upon death
  • since there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, being a devout practicing Catholic provides the surest path to salvation
  • however, there is a possibility of salvation for those who are not Catholics, and the possibility increases the more they are in communion with the Catholic Church, through such things as worshipping the same God, having Trinitarian baptism etc
  • non-Catholics may also be saved if they are “invincibly ignorant” of the Catholic faith, which basically means they follow another tradition that they believe correct, usually because they were raised in it, and they do not fully understand that the Catholic church has the truth.
 
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englands123 said:
It really upsets me when Catholic’s preach down to others.
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No one has done this anywhere in the thread. “No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church” is a doctrine of the Church that is both included and explained in the current Catechism.
I have spoken to God about such things and he simply told me this…
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Your own alleged, unapproved private revelations from God on this matter are neither relevant, nor authoritative, nor appropriate for the forum since we are not supposed to post material from unapproved private revelations.
 
catholic03 said:
We’ve done this topic to death on this forum. The answer is that basically if you are non Catholic, you might be able to get to heaven depending on a number of different factors such as invincible ignorance, culpability etc.
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Close, but not quite. Englands and francisca get it wrong, too, but in the other direction.

No, it’s not the case that “if you believe, you are saved”. Christ himself said that many will cry out “Lord, Lord!” but He will respond “I do not know you.”

Rather, when one is saved, it is through Christ and the Church He founded, by virtue of the graces which He gives us and which flow through the Catholic Church. Therefore, there are those who are not visible members of the Catholic Church, but who are saved. These, too, are saved by the grace of Christ and through His Church (even if they don’t know that it’s necessary to belong to that visible body).

So, “no salvation outside the Church” does not mean “no salvation except for Roman Catholics”, or even with the added caveat “except for really rare circumstances”. Nor does it mean “anyone who calls on the name of Christ is saved”. The answer lies somewhere between these two extremes.
englands123 said:
As you seem to have much wisdom please share my friend what is considered outside the Catholic Church ?
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englands123 said:
Is there anyone on the forum who can explain , exactly what is outside the salvation of God?
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Yep! Easy peasy. It means someone who is not receiving the grace of Christ. If a Buddhist or Muslim or atheist is saved (and these are all possibilities), it’s due to the grace of Christ which He dispenses through the Church He founded on Peter and the Apostles.

So, can the Queen and the archbishop of Canterbury be saved? Yes. (But we have to ask other questions about through what means they’re saved. That’s a different question for another day, however.)
Fauken said:
exactly what is outside the salvation of God?
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People who, knowing that it’s true and real, but nevertheless refuse it.

That’s a critical part of the equation. 😉
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In Christ there is no division. Salvation means to be united with Christ and his Body which is the Church. Christ’s Body is one, not two or more or 30,000.

Ok?

At the same time:
Every human being may be saved.
Not every human being is part of the institutional Church on earth.
If they do attain salvation they are part of the Church, and the grace that saves them flows through the Catholic Church (remember, Christ’s Body is ONE)
(and by corollary, being part of the institutional Church on earth is NOT a guarantee of salvation)

It’s really not very complicated !!!
 
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englands123 said:
As you seem to have much wisdom please share my friend what is considered outside the Catholic Church ?

Jesus was very clear ,

And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

— [Matthew 22:35-40]
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Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church or are you (as a Catholic) a Bible only matters??

Do your own research or are you stuck on scripture alone??
 
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For example:
A Bhuddist may be saved by cooperating with the grace God gives him throughout his life. That grace flows through the Catholic Church, and the Bhuddist becomes part of that One Body when saved.
 
I’ve just read the book of Luke in the Catholic Public Domain Version and Jesus mentions “whoever is not against you is with you.”
 
The key to accepting this is to accept the Incarnation.
Christ is Incarnate in human flesh. So the Church must have a human dimension that is instituted and corporeal. If not, what is the purpose of Christ coming into human flesh? He came for a reason and purpose, right?

The Church is not gnostic. In other words, the Church is not composed of merely an invisible faith, it is composed of real believers and is visible and instituted in the human condition.
Because Christ himself is incarnate.
 
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No, there is no salvation outside of the church. To say so would be to say that there was salvation outside of Noah’s Ark. If there was salvation outside of Jesus’ one true Holy Catholic and Apostolic church, than the many many many erroneous denominations of protestantism are all right at the same time and the Church becomes irrelevant.
 
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Justakid said:
Protestant’s like AOG Baptist. Pentecostals. Etc. Are Catholics.
They are part of the universal religion that worshipped Jesus as the masiah. The Jewish Redeemer.
They are not all roman Catholics. Who pray to Mary and the saints. and believe in the pope as the leader
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No they are not Catholics. They are who they are. If they come to salvation and we hope they all do, they are then part of the One Body.

The Catholic Church is not just the “Roman Catholic Church”. There are 23 self governing (sui iuris) Churches united under servant authority of the Bishop of Rome.
You can google the list of them.
What you call the “Roman” Church is really the Latin Rite Catholic Church.
there is technically no such thing as the “Roman” Catholic Church.
 
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This may be the most discussed topic on this forum. Still, EENS is probably the least understood Catholic teaching (other than MAYBE infallibility).

The Pope himself has said repeatedly that non-Catholics and even atheists may be saved. EENS does NOT mean that anyone who does not formally join the Catholic Church in life goes to Hell. That is NOT what “No Salvation Outside the Church” means.
 
Justakid said:
Protestant’s like AOG Baptist. Pentecostals. Etc. Are Catholics.
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I think that is a bit of a sleight-of-hand. That’s not what is meant by “no salvation outside the church” – namely, that everyone is in the church. That would have the effect of saying that this teaching is meaningless.

Are they part of the Catholic Church? The Church would say that they they are in “imperfect communion with the Church”, but would fall short of claiming them to be ‘Catholic’, properly speaking.

That’s a very difficult thing for non-Catholic Christians to hear. Often, they tend to think that we’re telling them that only Catholics go to heaven (and they don’t). I think it’s important to be able to explain to our separated brethren that this is not what we mean.
 
JohnStrachan said:
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Fauken:
the grace that comes through the Catholic Church.
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I’m sorry, but I though grace come from God.
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John, who is God and how do you know him?
I hope your answer is Jesus Christ.
Ok, again: who is Jesus Christ?
How do you know Jesus Christ?
 
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thistle said:
Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church or are you (as a Catholic) a Bible only matters??

Do your own research or are you stuck on scripture alone??
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Yes, I am concerned also because englands123 states that they are Catholic, but this is the second thread in which they have made a number of statements that suggest they aren’t aware of what is in the Catechism.

englands123, you should not be relying on your personal interpretations of Scripture, or your personal alleged revelations from God, or anything other than the Catechism to be posting information as a Catholic on this forum.

You not only don’t seem to be aware of a number of Catholic teachings, but you are risking leading others astray or giving the wrong impression of Catholic teaching.

The last thread you started had people thinking you were a Bible-only Protestant or a Jehovah’s Witness because you seemed to be stating positions based in your interpretation of Scripture that were not the teachings of the Church.

I would urge you to please learn what Catholicism actually teaches using the official source published by the Church, which is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
Another way of stating the doctrine is this: All who are saved are saved by being incorporated into the Catholic Church, even if imperfectly.

There is only one Church instituted by Christ and given the command to spread the gospel and offer salvation to the whole world. The Apostle Peter was designated by Jesus as it’s first earthly leader, and his successors have maintained that position from the time of Christ to the present day.
 
Gorgias said:
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JohnStrachan:
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Fauken:
the grace that comes through the Catholic Church.
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I’m sorry, but I though grace come from God.
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It comes from Jesus. It comes through the Church.

After all, Jesus founded the Church as a means through which His grace might be given to His Body (through the sacraments).
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Correct.
Jesus is incarnate. Jesus is God entered into human history.
Jesus is a first century Jew and has a real lineage.
Jesus lives among a specific and unique group of people.
Jesus gives those people a real mission and gives them real authority.
He does not make vague declarations of grace…his incarnate life is instituted corporeally in those he commissions.

If you claim to know Christ, you claim a specific family, not a grace of your own making.
 
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