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Kei
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Revelation, Church teaching, prayerful discernment, utilizing reason, etc.
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Kei
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Well, I imagine I wouldn’t deny myself legitimate pleasures as much, I would do less fasting, prayer, I’d probably do things I consider sinful, my “discernment” for life would be way different. I also imagine I wouldn’t be so obedient to legitimate authority and I wouldn’t be so “on the lookout” for charitable acts, my interior life would be very different, I’d spend less time meditating over Scripture and spiritual writing, I would probably be more inward (as in spending more time by myself as opposed to with others, as little as I do that already!). Perhaps there’s much more I am not thinking about.
That’s assuming I’d live a life very much as I do now. But I may not. Truth be told, and I’ve thought about this before, if I were a convinced atheist, I have ambition. If I would really get myself into it, I might want to amass power, money, etc. So either some sort of (morally lax) politician or even a revolutionary of some kind. Maybe I’d lack the guts for the latter, especially considering I wouldn’t be partaking so much of the virtues from God. I dunno. I may view those who don’t as cowardly.
Obviously, you’re you and not me, and would have different desires, ambitions, etc. Everyone is different. Truth be told, I am left with imagining what that would be like, so I am guessing and maybe my mindset would have been different, so who knows all the ways things would be different.
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FredBloggs
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It’s interesting that you seem to think that atheists would be any different to theists, other than the absence of belief in gods. It would be easy to infer from your question that theists all have the same worldview.
Speaking as an atheist, I can say that my worldview includes the belief that no gods exist. Everything else is up for discussion, much as I imagine it is for theists.
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IanAG
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From what I have read all Christian theists have the same fundamental worldview in terms of their answers to the seven core existential questions. They may however differ in the beliefs they hold at a lower level.
Conversely there are a number of worldviews which include the belief that there is no God, as others have listed above and a sample of which are shown on the table I shared.
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IanAG
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I would say that this is where having a faith in a Higher Power to whom we can refer through prayer helps us, particularly in the major decisions in life.
Rather than being tempted to act impulsively out of our emotional response, prayer provides the time and space needed to make wiser decisions which consider the consequences of our actions on ourselves and others.
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IanAG
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So actually using reason to deduce there is no God is unreliable?
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gam197
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There was a protestant pastor who often talked about world view and he would explain the differences so I thought it was a protestant concept but it was very interesting.Pattylt:
I’m not Catholic!
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Dan123
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Is prayer the only thing that does this? Wouldn’t anything that provides time and space give us time to consider consequences of our actions? Have you ever had a difficult decision and just decided to sleep on it, and in the morning things seemed a lot clearer?
I would say pure reason is enough to discover a lot of things and direct ones inquiry, but when not confirmed with real world observations and experimentation can only go so far. Even then eventually you run into solipcism and the difficulty of knowing things with true certainty.
So yes I agree with your question above, though I’m not sure reason alone is enough to conclude anything doesn’t exist, except perhaps logically contradictory things. But of course I don’t claim to have determined there is no God. I don’t believe God exists, I don’t claim to know god doesn’t exist.
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IanAG
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Hi there, it isn’t really a religious tool, although it is helpful for that purpose.
I used it in my role as a psychotherapist in early meetings to help clients understand how they perceived the world, and to show that it was possible that others may see the world very differently.
It also helped people to discern whether their worldview was helping them to flourish or contributing to their illness.
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Pattylt
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Since I don’t believe in God or the efficacy of prayer to that God, I have no problem understanding how prayer would help make decisions as I view it as a conversation with yourself to help decide. If Gods voice appeared in your head, then I could see God helping you to answer but we know that’s not how it really goes. It’s a self reflection on the issues at hand and whether you call it prayer or self reflection, it can be very helpful. Meditation fits in there, too.
I’m still baffled by the divide between believers and non believers. What makes it so one has no problem believing that the supernatural exists and those that just can’t? Is there some physical difference that has believers “sensing” the supernatural and I don’t have whatever it is?
I don’t think the idea of the supernatural is illogical nor unreasonable per say…I just haven’t anything to grab onto to think it’s other than wishful thinking. Wishful thinking is something that humans are quite good at and I just can’t fathom how believers distinguish between the two…yet, I take them at their word that they do distinguish it.
I can’t. It’s not that I won’t, as I tried for years but failed miserably. Most atheists I know have also tried. I was a believer until around 18yrs old then went through years of trying to regain or hold on to it. I finally accepted it. I still don’t understand how members of the same family can have faithful believers and atheists within the same family. Their upbringing, while not identical, is similar. Sometimes you’ll see a family of 6 brothers and sisters where only one is atheist and others where only one held onto it. Males tend towards atheism at much higher numbers than females as well. Will we someday discover an actual biological reason for it? No clue. But, something is different.
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Pattylt
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I’m curious…is it possible for an ill persons world view of Christianity to be the problem and not the cure? Or must their Christian world view be a wrong Christian view…ie. Not yours?
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IanAG
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From what I’ve read the absence of belief in God has little to do with intellect and more to do with problem solving preferences, personality type and relational experiences and style. In a family it could also be influenced by order of birth and individual role.
I find the work done by John Bowlby on Attachment Theory and Melanie Klein on Object Relations Theory both relevant and insightful in answering these questions.
Subsequent studies, for example (1) have shown in summary that poor object relations development in childhood has a very significant correlation with irreligiosity in later life. It also correlated with poor adult relationships. Thus the irreligious find it more difficult to establish positive adult relationships.
On attachment theory and the psychology of religion, the Wikipedia entry (2) explains things far better than I could.
The work of Donald Winnicott on transitional objects has also led those working in the field of Psychology of Religion to see Jesus and Mary as transitional objects in the spiritual journey to God.
Whilst not being a scientifically validated model, the Myers Briggs Type Indicator has shown that those who have a Thinking rather than Feeling, and Judging rather than Perceiving approach to problem solving tend to correlate with Irreligiosity.
Maturity involved integrating the inferior function, in this case feeling and perceiving, the journey of which is often described as the journey of wholeness and spiritual maturity.
Maybe if you thought of God as a relationship to be developed rather than a fact to be proven it might help you.
Hope this helps.
(1)
Hall, Todd W., et al. “An Empirical Exploration of Psychoanalysis and Religion: Spiritual Maturity and Object Relations Development.” Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion , vol. 37, no. 2, 1998, pp. 303–313. JSTOR , An Empirical Exploration of Psychoanalysis and Religion: Spiritual Maturity and Object Relations Development on JSTOR. Accessed 26 Nov. 2020.
(2) Attachment theory and psychology of religion - Wikipedia
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IanAG
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Hi Patty, it was less about me working out the roots of their ‘problem’ and more about providing the client with the tools to work it out for themselves.
It was also not about having a particular ‘right’ worldview but about consistency within their worldview and an awareness of its consequences on their life.
Seeing that other worldviews were logically consistent and based on certain beliefs helped people become more empathic and less judgmental…ie other people are not stupid, they just see the world differently to me.
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Pattylt
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Thanks…that makes sense.Pattylt:
Hi Patty, it was less about me working out the roots of their ‘problem’ and more about providing the client with the tools to work it out for themselves.
It was also not about having a particular ‘right’ worldview but about consistency within their worldview and an awareness of its consequences on their life.
Seeing that other worldviews were logically consistent and based on certain beliefs helped people become more empathic and less judgmental…ie other people are not stupid, they just see the world differently to me.
I read the Wiki article. It sounds like the studies are very inconclusive so far but it’s an interesting pathway to look into. This caught my eye…
Studies on attachment and religion have been ambiguous with no clear findings. According to Hall, Fukujima and Delaney after an independent review of literature: “On the surface, it appears that the empirical literature to date presents a rather inconsistent picture.”[9] The same authors in 2010 found that the compensation model was not supported, and insecure individuals high in parental insensitivity were not more religious.
When they relooked at previous studies, they often got very different conclusions. To me, that suggests they are either on the wrong track or not looking at the right reasons. Interesting regardless…
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Dan123
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Or their worldview is causing them to come to incorrect or premature conclusions.
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IanAG
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Thanks Patty.
I believe the key word here is inconsistent rather than unsubstantiated. Being a relatively new area of study I guess as you say that more work needs to be done to confirm or discount the psychological theory.
I believe the key word here is inconsistent rather than unsubstantiated. Being a relatively new area of study I guess as you say that more work needs to be done to confirm or discount the psychological theory.
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IanAG
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Could you explain a little what you mean Dan?
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IanAG
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Here they are with the different responses from each worldview
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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