Is this all the CC has?

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vocatio said:
I came back to the Catholic Church kicking and screaming. It’s undeniable for honest folk that the historical church is evident in the fossel record…just being funny in a way. The historical documents in the early church fathers have been what I’ve mostly engaged in reading. I had many questions that were never answered rationally in my previous Protestant faith. We were so up there that we thought that WE were to one true church founded by Christ. But the only proff of that was Alexander Campbell’s restoration movement. Now if you want to argue with a brick wall, go to the “Preacher’s Files”. They’ll give you a run for your money more than any Catholic ever will. They know scripture really well by rote, but have no clue what the real meaning of the scriptures they recite out of context really mean. I must have been out of my mind to initially dealve into that faith.

It sounds like you’re ranting. My guess is that someone ticked you off for some reason. Maybe someone challenged you in a way you can’t respond? I don’t know. Study the scriptures. Catholicism is within the pages if you read it in context. I can’t say whether or not you’ll see it. But hopefully you’ll approach the pages with a clean heart allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you. Try to read it in the way a Catholic would understand it. Give it a shot. That’s all I have to say for you on the matter. I have copies of the Book of Mormon, haven’t read it all yet. I have a copy of the koran…Qua ran. I have Greek translatation and I used to even have the Hebrew old testament. I had a library of Lexicons and historical books that never talked abou the ancient church father in depth. I thought all of those books had been destroyed in wars.

It was the Da Vinci Code that turned the tables upside down for me. For a brief momen in time I almost came to doubt God…Christianity period. I was a Christian in the Church of Christ with lots of unasnwered questions… Where did we get the bible? I never accepted the “we gave it to you arrogant answer by Catholics”
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I say Amen to that!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgnosTheist
History failed to be “actual” on Jesus, the apostles, and what they did. It was a chaotic period open to corruption & interpretation.

If Jesus was really God, the least he could have done is manipulate reputable non-christian historians into making independent & accurate recordings of his life. and those of the apostles.

Just another atheist statement wanting things to be done their way.

how could you even imagine which is accurate or erroneous recordings of Jesus Life?
if God does things in one way we say. He should done this way, or that way or the other way.

Just because you dont understand God’s way of doing what He wants to do or get confused about it, it is only because of unbelief and disobedience to Him.

:bowdown: :byzsoc:
 
wisdomseeker said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgnosTheist
History failed to be “actual” on Jesus, the apostles, and what they did. It was a chaotic period open to corruption & interpretation.

If Jesus was really God, the least he could have done is manipulate reputable non-christian historians into making independent & accurate recordings of his life. and those of the apostles.

Just another atheist statement wanting things to be done their way.

how could you even imagine which is accurate or erroneous recordings of Jesus Life?
if God does things in one way we say. He should done this way, or that way or the other way.

Just because you dont understand God’s way of doing what He wants to do or get confused about it, it is only because of unbelief and disobedience to Him.

:bowdown: :byzsoc:
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I like to think of Moses interaction with God on Mt. Sinai in these occassions:

Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, `I AM has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:13-14

Who said God couldn’t be funny?!? Cracks me up…
 
Bwsherman said:
I like to think of Moses interaction with God on Mt. Sinai in these occassions:

Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, `I AM has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:13-14

Who said God couldn’t be funny?!? Cracks me up…
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I also like the part: they believed and they followed Moses.
 
Bwsherman said:
I do not understand the need for you be somewhat snippy with me. I was trying to be sincere. Maybe that is too difficult for you to believe based on your past experiences. However, I thought this thread was about your desire to know the Catholic Church better. If you do not have any questions, I do not understand the point.
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I;m not trying to be snippy, but I do tire of the almost constant degrading of any topic relating to LDS beliefs (or questions posted by myself) into attacks on our faith and insults.

At times I do have questions, but they are meet with accusations by many. I’ve not been here long but it gets old real fast.
 
teancum79 said:
I;m not trying to be snippy, but I do tire of the almost constant degrading of any topic relating to LDS beliefs (or questions posted by myself) into attacks on our faith and insults.

At times I do have questions, but they are meet with accusations by many. I’ve not been here long but it gets old real fast.
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I did my best in my first post here to give some guidance on how this might be avoided. I cannot gurantee that it won’t because this forum is about open debate which can at times become very negative and rude. I try to avoid this at all cost, but I am certain that I am guilty of it from time to time. I do not believe that means that we should stop the dialogue though. If you do have questions, I would be happy to help in whatever way I can. Realize though that not every person on here is on here for the same reasons. Some want to inquire, others want to debate, and still others are only interested in hate-speech and arguing. It comes with the territory. You might try doing some research into the Catholic faith yourself by reading some books. I recommend Dr. Scott Hahn, Mike Aquilina, and Bishop Henry G. Graham. Their books can be found most places and they are all fairly quick reads. I am certain others on here could recommend even more, but you cannot go wrong with anything by these gentlemen. Blessings…
 
Bwsherman said:
I did my best in my first post here to give some guidance on how this might be avoided. I cannot gurantee that it won’t because this forum is about open debate which can at times become very negative and rude. I try to avoid this at all cost, but I am certain that I am guilty of it from time to time. I do not believe that means that we should stop the dialogue though. If you do have questions, I would be happy to help in whatever way I can. Realize though that not every person on here is on here for the same reasons. Some want to inquire, others want to debate, and still others are only interested in hate-speech and arguing. It comes with the territory. You might try doing some research into the Catholic faith yourself by reading some books. I recommend Dr. Scott Hahn, Mike Aquilina, and Bishop Henry G. Graham. Their books can be found most places and they are all fairly quick reads. I am certain others on here could recommend even more, but you cannot go wrong with anything by these gentlemen. Blessings…
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good post. i would add that a quick perusal through the basic library here at CA should be done before wading into the fray.
 
In regards to the off-repeated charge that the Emperor Constantine was baptized on his death bed while unconcious and apparently against his will–flatly unhistorical

According to Eusbesius Ecceisastical History (an eyewitness) Constantine knew he was dying–he took off the imperial robes, doned the white robe of a catechumate, and was baptized in full posession of his mental facilities.
 
teancum79 said:
oneGODoneCHURCH;3746901:
I said I did half my minor in history.

And I got that from a person who was spending more or less all day learning about and teaching history.

Just because you dislike what some history experts conclude does not make it wrong.
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Plenty of cranks in Acadame–thats why citations are important–you can then reference someone’s professional reputation.

By the way, does this “person” teach at at place with the initials “B-Y-U”???
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teancum79 said:
Thanks for the suggestion.
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You are welcome. Let me know if you would like particular titles. Also, I would just to like to add that I am starting to get a little tired of reading the unnecessary and unbeneficial jabs at this person and their intelligence. I do not see how it helps this person see the light the we hold in the Catholic Church. I see it as selfish, self gratifying, and intellectually moot. Attack her argument for its logical deficiencies and that is really all that is required in debate…Sorry if that sounds preachy, but is an unpleasant observation.
 
www.newadvent.org is a good place to look up catholic subjects quickly. kind of a “google catholic” approach but still…if your just looking for basic answers it’s not bad
 
Hi teancum79,

Can you please start with 1 example of a piece of history that you have studied, quoting the source, and then outline how it clashes with the history that us Catholics quote?

I think then we will be better able to help solve your question on why you think our history clashes with “real” history?

Thanks
 
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teancum79:
Constantine (sp) CC First empire to become a Christian.

History the guy was a pagan and was probably “baptized” on his death bed while unconscious.
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CHAPTER LXI: His Sickness at Helenopolis, and Prayers respecting his Baptism.

AT first he experienced some slight bodily indisposition, which was soon followed by positive disease. In consequence of this he visited the hot baths of his own city; and thence proceeded to that which bore the name of his mother. Here he passed some time in the church of the martyrs, and offered up supplications and prayers to God. Being at length convinced that his life was drawing to a close, he felt the time was come at which he should seek purification from sins of his past career, firmly believing that whatever errors he had committed as a mortal man, his soul would be purified from them through the efficacy of the mystical words and the salutary waters of baptism. (1) Impressed with these thoughts, he poured forth his supplications and confessions to God, kneeling on the pavement in the church itself, in which he also now for the first time received the imposition of hands with prayer. (2) After this he proceeded as far as the suburbs of Nicomedia, and there, having summoned the bishops to meet him, addressed them in the following words.

CHAPTER LXII: Constantine’s Appeal to the Bishops, requesting them to confer upon him the Rite of Baptism.

“THE time is arrived which I have long hoped for, with an earnest desire and prayer that I might obtain the salvation of God. The hour is come in which I too may have the blessing of that seal which confers immortality; the hour in which I may receive the seal of salvation. I had thought to do this in the waters of the river Jordan, wherein our Saviour, for our example, is recorded to have been baptized: but God, who knows what is expedient for us, is pleased that I should receive this blessing here. Be it so, then, without delay: (1) for should it be his will who is Lord of life and death, that my existence here should be prolonged, and should I be destined henceforth to associate with the people of God, and unite with them in prayer as a member of his. Church, I will prescribe to myself from this time such a course of life as befits his service.” After he had thus spoken, the prelates performed the sacred ceremonies in the usual manner, and, having given him the necessary instructions, made him a partaker of the mystic ordinance. Thus was Constantine the first of all sovereigns who was regenerated and perfected in a church dedicated to the martyrs of Christ; thus gifted with the Divine seal of baptism, he rejoiced in spirit, was renewed, and filled with heavenly light: his soul was gladdened by reason of the fervency of his faith, and astonished at the manifestation of the power of God. At the conclusion of the ceremony he arrayed himself in shining imperial vestments, brilliant as the light, (2) and reclined on a couch of the purest white, refusing to clothe himself with the purple any more.

CHAPTER LXIII: How after his Baptism he rendered Thanks God.

HE then lifted his voice and poured forth a strain of thanksgiving to God; after which he added these words. “Now I know that I am truly blessed: now I feel assured that I am accounted worthy of immortality, and am made a partaker of Divine light.” He further expressed his compassion for the unhappy condition of those who were strangers to such blessings as he enjoyed: and when the tribunes and generals of his army appeared in his presence with lamentations and tears at the prospect of their bereavement, and with prayers that his days might yet be prolonged, he assured them in reply that he was now in possession of true life; that none but himself could know the value of the blessings he had received; so that he was anxious rather to hasten than to defer his departure to God. He then proceeded to complete the needful arrangement of his affairs, bequeathing an annual donation to the Roman inhabitants of his imperial city; apportioning the inheritance of the empire, like a patrimonial estate, among his own children; in short, making every disposition according to his own pleasure. (1)

This is from Vita Constantini (The Life of Constantine) written by his contemporary and witness Eusebius of Caesarea in the early 4th century.

fordham.edu/halsall/basis/vita-constantine.html
 
teancum79 said:
oneGODoneCHURCH;3746901:
I said I did half my minor in history.

And I got that from a person who was spending more or less all day learning about and teaching history.

Just because you dislike what some history experts conclude does not make it wrong.
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I stand corrected. Maybe you need to do a little more study of history. in regard to Constantine at least.

Also as to Most Priest of the Latin Rite for the Church not being Married this is a matter of discipline not a Dogma. For as St Paul writes It would be best if all remained as he ( celibate ). We also have the example of Christ for the Priestly celibacy.

As for the crusades I know little about them other than they were a call to reclaim the Holy Lands for the Muslims.

The tile of the thread is a bit confusing as if you look the Catholic Church what more could there be other that being in Heaven directly ins the presents of God. We have the Sacraments the Christ Gave to us. We have the direct linage from the Apostles. We hold to the Beliefs as they have come to us ( yes over the last 2000 or so years ) from the Apostles and those that they past there commission from Christ onto. We have stood the Test of time and the battles against heresy as they have come at us.

Now you can show that there may have been from time to time over the last 2000 years were a Priest, Bishop, even a Pope may have made statements etc… that were not in line with Church Teachings, but they have always been dealt with and corrected. Not always fast enough but still they were done.

The thing is everything you find in the Catholic Church you find in the Bible and or Traditions going back into the Hebrew Faith.

That can not be said for the LDS. There are thing about the the LDS that at the every least are just worrisome and at the worst anti Christian.

To you I again say that I pray the Holy Spirit to come upon you and lead Into the Truth.
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