Is this normal....

[Serap]

If you’re a selfish b**ch to your husband that’s one thing, but at the point that you threaten to not pay child support ordered by a court of law, failing to support your children financially, and allowing your children to suffer because of your issues with your spouse, you have crossed the line into evidencing psychopathic traits, including breaking the law.

When people are fighting, they don’t necessarily mean everything that they say. If he really loves his kids, he would provide for them no matter what. Very few fathers would actually toss their kids to the curb b/c he’s mad at his wife.

I’ve said many things in anger that you could then call me a psychopath afterwards. I can’t throw stones in glass houses b/c I’m a sinner myself.

I am refusing to make any judgements on this man b/c I don’t know him or her. A priest could better assess the situation in person.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’ve said many things in anger that you could then call me a psychopath afterwards.

Psychopaths commit offenses against others without reason that others would consider a provocation, and without remorse afterwards. The things people do to each other while going through marital difficulties fall more into the category of lack of character or lack of self-control.

 

[Serap]

Psychopaths commit offenses against others without reason that others would consider a provocation, and without remorse afterwards. The things people do to each other while going through marital difficulties fall more into the category of lack of character or lack of self-control.

You just made a great point and it’s up to the OP to discern (with a priest or whatever) which it is in her case with regards to her husband’s behaviour.

 

[former_Catholic]

Psychopaths commit offenses against others without reason that others would consider a provocation, and without remorse afterwards. The things people do to each other while going through marital difficulties fall more into the category of lack of character or lack of self-control.

When “marital difficulties” cause the financial support (physical survival) of their minor children to be withdrawn by one or both spouses, or one or both spouses threaten to withdraw financial support for any minor children of the marriage, those “marital difficulties” and that behavior are well beyond “lack of character” or “lack of self-control.” The financial support of an underage child of the marriage is* a specific legal liability* of the parent(s) to the child and is completely independent of all marriage issues and all “marital difficulties” between the parents. Willful arbitrary refusal to financially support one’s minor child is a violation of the law and a criminal offense against one’s child, for which there is NO legitimate excuse nor provocation whatsoever. Threatening to violate the law and willfully arbitrarily withhold financial support from one’s minor child goes way beyond “lack of character” or “lack of self-control” and into the realm of psychopathic and criminal behavior for which a parent can be incarcerated.

 

[floresco]

Willful arbitrary refusal to financially support one’s minor child is a violation of the law and a criminal offense against one’s child, for which there is NO legitimate excuse nor provocation whatsoever. Threatening to violate the law and willfully arbitrarily withhold financial support from one’s minor child goes way beyond “lack of character” or “lack of self-control” and into the realm of psychopathic and criminal behavior for which a parent can be incarcerated.

You are reading way more into the OP than was there. Her exact words were

.he’s made threats on how if I leave I wouldn’t get much child support, or if I leave he’d keep it in court for 5 years. .

This does not sound like a threat to withhold child support or to violate the law. It sounds to me like he is telling her that, if she left, the court would not award her much child support. While this is inaccurate in any jurisdiction that I have heard of, he is not talking about refusing any legal responsibilities. He also threatened to keep the case tied up in court. This man is talking about using the law not about breaking the law.

Your use of terms like “psychopathic” and “criminal” is unwarranted and probably not at all helpful to the OP.

 

[Jea9]

When “marital difficulties” cause the financial support (physical survival) of their minor children to be withdrawn by one or both spouses, or one or both spouses threaten to withdraw financial support for any minor children of the marriage, those “marital difficulties” and that behavior are well beyond “lack of character” or “lack of self-control.” The financial support of an underage child of the marriage is* a specific legal liability* of the parent(s) to the child and is completely independent of all marriage issues and all “marital difficulties” between the parents. Willful arbitrary refusal to financially support one’s minor child is a violation of the law and a criminal offense against one’s child, for which there is NO legitimate excuse nor provocation whatsoever. Threatening to violate the law and willfully arbitrarily withhold financial support from one’s minor child goes way beyond “lack of character” or “lack of self-control” and into the realm of psychopathic and criminal behavior for which a parent can be incarcerated.

I think the point Serap is making is that you cannot know the context of that argument. What she said in her first post was that he said she wouldn’t get much support. Maybe he means he’ll try to get custody of the kids. You just can’t know the context or other circumstances. And I have to disagree with you, I think good, normal people say things in the heat of an argument that do not mean the person displays psychopathic behavior or tendencies.

The OP really does need to speak with an objective 3rd party (priest or therapist) who can listen to everything (both sides) and help them through this.

 

[PrayerShark]

Serap, I am in complete agreement with you that all advice from this forum (and the internet) should be taken with a grain of salt. I also agree with you and others who have said that her best course of action lies in her and her husband seeing a counsellor with the support of the parish priest. Getting in contact with a women’s support group would be helpful as well.

However, we can voice our opinions on the matter. If the OP can see our outrage and sorrow at her plight, it gives her some validation that her situation is not her fault and that she needs to take immediate steps to get out of the hell that she is in. I also find it hard to believe this woman’s narrative of events is embellished or that she is especially sensitive or emotional. Isn’t that just giving this guy excuses for his behaviour. Additionally, how there is another perspective that is going to make this guy sympathetic to us here on the board? Just to remind you all…

• The OP recognises that she is being verbally abused by her husband. She has said that he calls her bad words, and I presume this isn’t just ‘idiot’, ‘dumb’, ‘stupid’, etc, but also ‘f-in *****’, ‘slut’. In addition, he calls her mentally ill.
• He refuses to sleep in the same bed as her because he finds her annoying.
• She’s had two miscarriages; the cause of which must have been stress as she points to the miscarriage as a result of an argument they had.
• His child is very sick and he’s complaining about the fridge…
• He also threatens her by making it clear that if she decides to leave him, he will put her through more hell. So he’s aware that she is miserable and doesn’t seem to care.

I’m sorry, but this guy is more than just a jerk, and words fail me to give a name to someone who treats their wife like a piece of ****. The guy doesn’t deserve her, or any other woman on earth for that matter.

I must also point out, what effect is this having on their children? Will they sit there and watch this charade and think this is how women should be treated? Monkey see, monkey do.

 

[Serap]

Serap, I am in complete agreement with you that all advice from this forum (and the internet) should be taken with a grain of salt. I also agree with you and others who have said that her best course of action lies in her and her husband seeing a counsellor with the support of the parish priest. Getting in contact with a women’s support group would be helpful as well.

However, we can voice our opinions on the matter. If the OP can see our outrage and sorrow at her plight, it gives her some validation that her situation is not her fault and that she needs to take immediate steps to get out of the hell that she is in. I also find it hard to believe this woman’s narrative of events is embellished or that she is especially sensitive or emotional. Isn’t that just giving this guy excuses for his behaviour. Additionally, how there is another perspective that is going to make this guy sympathetic to us here on the board? Just to remind you all…

• The OP recognises that she is being verbally abused by her husband. She has said that he calls her bad words, and I presume this isn’t just ‘idiot’, ‘dumb’, ‘stupid’, etc, but also ‘f-in *****’, ‘slut’. In addition, he calls her mentally ill.
• He refuses to sleep in the same bed as her because he finds her annoying.
• She’s had two miscarriages; the cause of which must have been stress as she points to the miscarriage as a result of an argument they had.
• His child is very sick and he’s complaining about the fridge…
• He also threatens her by making it clear that if she decides to leave him, he will put her through more hell. So he’s aware that she is miserable and doesn’t seem to care.

I’m sorry, but this guy is more than just a jerk, and words fail me to give a name to someone who treats their wife like a piece of ****. The guy doesn’t deserve her, or any other woman on earth for that matter.

I must also point out, what effect is this having on their children? Will they sit there and watch this charade and think this is how women should be treated? Monkey see, monkey do.

You agree with me and then you go right back to crucifying this guy without knowing the entire situation!!! We are not there watching the arguments; she could be just as abusive to him; we don’t know. They need to see a professional to assess the situation.

 

[Zatzat]

Maybe i am mentally ill.

Make an appointment with your Doctor and talk to her.

 

[PrayerShark]

I also said that we may still voice an opinion, hence why I gave it. If you want to give the husband the benefit of the doubt, by all means do so. But the language and self-doubt of the OP does not tell me this woman is equally abusive to him. I guess we can only agree to disagree.

 

[Serap]

I also said that we may still voice an opinion, hence why I gave it. If you want to give the husband the benefit of the doubt, by all means do so. But the language and self-doubt of the OP does not tell me this woman is equally abusive to him. I guess we can only agree to disagree.

I respect your opinions.

Women from abusive childhoods also tend to doubt themselves and see more in a situation than there really is. I am one of them and have a tendency to do this also, so I am speaking from experience.

My husband is a very good husband. There are some days after we’ve had a heated arguement, that I too could write a similar post to the OP. I am very sensitive and sometimes see abuse where another woman might just shrug and say “jackass!”.

And my husband too has said to me things like, “I’ll never let you have my kids” ,etc when we are fighting and we are getting really upset and passionate. We have only had those arguments during very stressful periods in our lives, but we’ve had them. He has also said things like, “This is my house; you leave and don’t come back!”. He has also called me “psycho” as well. These are just examples, but he doesn’t really mean it…he’s just really mad at me and wants to hurt me b/c I am hurting him. Sometimes couples say horrible things to eachother when they are angry.

I have said equally abusive things to my husband, so I am no innocent victim in my marriage either.

 

[PrayerShark]

And I respect yours in turn.

I must admit a certain bias; not one of personal history but more to do where I’m living at the moment. I live in a rather bogan (Aussie version of a redneck) area of Sydney, and I’ve got a neighbour over the fence who likes beating into his wife/girlfriend. Last weekend as I was going to bed I heard her scream ‘Please don’t hurt me, I don’t want to die. Please don’t kill me.’ It took me ten minutes to work out where yelling was coming from, as I live in an apartment complex, but I quickly rang the police after finding it. The lady had managed to lock him outside by then and he was kicking and screaming at the door. The police eventually arrived, but I don’t think they did much. I was pretty shaken by his violence towards her and that screaming still haunts me before I go to bed. I just don’t understand how a man who considers himself in love with his wife could fathom that she deserves such treatment.

 

[floresco]

I also said that we may still voice an opinion, hence why I gave it.

You may voice an opinion in the sense that nobody will stop you. But opinions formed with insufficient facts are bad opinions. They are likely to be untrue and sometimes even harmful.

Let’s say a couple with a relatively good relationship has had a fight and the wife posts here to vent. Normally they would make up after a fight and life would go on, but this time she has all these people telling her that her husband is abusive and she should leave him. This is very likely to have a bad effect on their marriage.

It is irresponsible to give an opinion based on one side of the story, especially when that side comes from someone who is venting.

 

[joandarc2008]

If you don’t mind me asking, OP, how is your child, was it a temporary illness or has your child been generally ill. Is everything OK now?

 

[Ailina]

I respect your opinions.

Women from abusive childhoods also tend to doubt themselves and see more in a situation than there really is. I am one of them and have a tendency to do this also, so I am speaking from experience.

My husband is a very good husband. There are some days after we’ve had a heated arguement, that I too could write a similar post to the OP. I am very sensitive and sometimes see abuse where another woman might just shrug and say “jackass!”.

And my husband too has said to me things like, “I’ll never let you have my kids” ,etc when we are fighting and we are getting really upset and passionate. We have only had those arguments during very stressful periods in our lives, but we’ve had them. He has also said things like, “This is my house; you leave and don’t come back!”. He has also called me “psycho” as well. These are just examples, but he doesn’t really mean it…he’s just really mad at me and wants to hurt me b/c I am hurting him. Sometimes couples say horrible things to eachother when they are angry.

I have said equally abusive things to my husband, so I am no innocent victim in my marriage either.

Calling each other names and threatening to kick each other out of the family home is not healthy, even if you are mad at each other in the heat of the moment. Do your children hear this kind of arguing? That is so unhealthy and undermines their sense of security. Anyone in this kind of situation needs to learn how to communicate without tearing the other down. I would suggest it is not normal marital behavior and that counselling/anger management is needed.

 

[Serap]

And I respect yours in turn.

I must admit a certain bias; not one of personal history but more to do where I’m living at the moment. I live in a rather bogan (Aussie version of a redneck) area of Sydney, and I’ve got a neighbour over the fence who likes beating into his wife/girlfriend. Last weekend as I was going to bed I heard her scream ‘Please don’t hurt me, I don’t want to die. Please don’t kill me.’ It took me ten minutes to work out where yelling was coming from, as I live in an apartment complex, but I quickly rang the police after finding it. The lady had managed to lock him outside by then and he was kicking and screaming at the door. The police eventually arrived, but I don’t think they did much. I was pretty shaken by his violence towards her and that screaming still haunts me before I go to bed. I just don’t understand how a man who considers himself in love with his wife could fathom that she deserves such treatment.

I do see where you are coming from. What you described is not love. They don’t know what love is and I’m sure it stems from their own childhoods too. Abusive husbands don’t love their wives. They don’t know how to love. They want to love and be loved, but they don’t know how to do it or get it. They are coping from their own experiences with abandonment and their past experiences are so far ingrained in their own subconscious that they probably loath themselves and desparately want to get out of their hatred and abusive rut, but they don’t know how. It’s very sad and the cycle continues…

I’m sorry you’ve had to witness that and it must really make an impression on your whole life right now. I’m glad you called the police…perhaps the guy will think twice knowing there are eyes watching him.

Can you get out of that area? Are you on some kind of assistance?

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Serap, I am in complete agreement with you that all advice from this forum (and the internet) should be taken with a grain of salt. I also agree with you and others who have said that her best course of action lies in her and her husband seeing a counsellor with the support of the parish priest. Getting in contact with a women’s support group would be helpful as well.

However, we can voice our opinions on the matter. If the OP can see our outrage and sorrow at her plight, it gives her some validation that her situation is not her fault and that she needs to take immediate steps to get out of the hell that she is in. I also find it hard to believe this woman’s narrative of events is embellished or that she is especially sensitive or emotional. Isn’t that just giving this guy excuses for his behaviour. Additionally, how there is another perspective that is going to make this guy sympathetic to us here on the board? Just to remind you all…

• The OP recognises that she is being verbally abused by her husband. She has said that he calls her bad words, and I presume this isn’t just ‘idiot’, ‘dumb’, ‘stupid’, etc, but also ‘f-in *****’, ‘slut’. In addition, he calls her mentally ill.
• He refuses to sleep in the same bed as her because he finds her annoying.
• She’s had two miscarriages; the cause of which must have been stress as she points to the miscarriage as a result of an argument they had.
• His child is very sick and he’s complaining about the fridge…
• He also threatens her by making it clear that if she decides to leave him, he will put her through more hell. So he’s aware that she is miserable and doesn’t seem to care.

I’m sorry, but this guy is more than just a jerk, and words fail me to give a name to someone who treats their wife like a piece of ****. The guy doesn’t deserve her, or any other woman on earth for that matter.

I must also point out, what effect is this having on their children? Will they sit there and watch this charade and think this is how women should be treated? Monkey see, monkey do.

There’s great clarity in this post.

I feel so sorry for Mommie. Nobody should ever be abused like this.

Regarding the worries that the internet forum is not objective, only one side of the story is presented, etc, I think there’s no need to worry. A poor abused woman comes here, looking for some sanity and outside perspective to her life. It’s the minimum that we tell her, no, she is not insane, when she questions the normalcy of her marriage experiences, and as a daughter of our Heavenly Father, she deserves better than the mistreatment she receives. If I would be truly worried that Mommie’s account is not objective, I would ask her to invite her husband to this thread, so that we could hear his side, too. But, I suspect, he is enough of a jerk that he couldn’t care less than coming to an online forum and deal with his wife’s distress. Instead of cleaning the damn refrigerator himself, he has the gall to criticize his wife who has been caring for the sick child and hasn’t had a good night’s sleep for days and days. So, why should we expect him to come to an online forum, listen to his wife’s complaints, and DO SOMETHING for his marriage and for his wife?

 

[former_Catholic]

I think good, normal people say things in the heat of an argument that do not mean the person displays psychopathic behavior or tendencies.

I think “good normal people” are not the least bit reluctant to identify threats and behavior that threaten the CHILDREN as being “psychopathic” and truly endeavor to keep such displays of psychopathic behavior out of their households.

 

[EasterJoy]

Abusive husbands don’t love their wives. They don’t know how to love. They want to love and be loved, but they don’t know how to do it or get it.

By the way, do not get me wrong. My point was not that the husband deserves the benefit of the doubt or that his behavior might be tolerable due to extenuating circumstances.

My point was only that “pyschopath”, like the word “Nazi”, has an specific meaning. I mean that we ought not throw such words around whenever we mean to say that somebody is Bad News. I mean that we should reserve psychiatric terms for people actually having the particular disorders those terms denote. Otherwise, the terms lose their meaning.

Moreover, a person does not have to have a psychiatric disorder in order to choose abusive behavior. Sometimes, a person chooses to sin, without any psychiatric excuse. Moreover, if someone’s behavior isn’t tolerable, the victim doesn’t have to sit around until there is a diagnosis or any of the rest. They don’t have to give the offender a pass because he or she is a spouse or a relative or lacks culpability or deserves pity for some reason. If the behavior isn’t tolerable, it is morally correct not to tolerate it.

 

[Jea9]

I think “good normal people” are not the least bit reluctant to identify threats and behavior that threaten the CHILDREN as being “psychopathic” and truly endeavor to keep such displays of psychopathic behavior out of their households.

I think you cannot possibly know the entire context of the argument where these comments were said from ONE post from ONE person involved. To say otherwise is ridiculous. I will say that it would be OK to say, " the best thing to do is to speak to your pastor, a counselor, and if things continue even to an attorney". I think flyingfish made that suggestion, if you want to know where you stand on legal issues such as that, speak to an attorney. To call someone’s behaviors psychopathic when you don’t have the whole story is not wise.

I had a friend call me one morning telling me that her boyfriend had abused her, they’d fought, it was terrible and could I please come help her. I went to the house, I was clearly on her side and when the boyfriend came in we all sat down and discussed what happened. Turns out SHE was drunk and SHE threw things and punched him. The only thing physical he did was push her onto the couch so that she would stop swinging at her. When he relayed this, she remembered doing everything, and even admitted it was not the first time that she had gotten abusive with HIM. I took her to the ER for a psych consult. I’m not saying this is the OP’s situation obviously, I’m saying that if you just take ONE person’s side, you are not getting the whole story and thus not the truth. Turns out this friend of mine had had this problem in the past whenever she drank, and she didn’t remember until someone told her about it. Whether that someone was a boyfriend, a friend, or one time her sister I think. When she heard the story she would remember.