Is this teaching on hell OK or is it heresy?

[noactionreaction]

This is in the local parish priests reflection in last weeks parish newsletter, doesn’t seem right to me but would appreciate others opinions before taking it further. Discussing this with the priest is not an option.
‘Go to hell’, rot in hell’. Charming! I find it interesting that in the entire history of our Catholic Church, not a single person has ever been declared to be in hell. Judas, Hitler… whoever. You name them, people who did very evil things - not one has the church ever pronounced as being in hell. Why? Possibly because we hold out for ‘universal restoration/salvation’, where God’s love is so perfect, so victorious, so patient, that in fact He will finally win out in every single person’s life. (The ancient word for universal restoration is apokatastasis - impress your friends with that one!) The early church believed in it. Many may not like the idea, preferring the idea that people burn, maybe

for eternity. It can satisfy the ego. But Jesus’ parables teach quite the opposite, eg. The sinner getting to heaven before us. Would God be that great if his love didn’t win out eventually? Pretty lousy God otherwise! It may

take an ‘eternity’, but God’s love will eventually convince everyone to choose Him rather than the coldness and darkness of anything else. This universal restoration must surely be the meaning of Our Lord’s resurrection: that God will turn all our human agonies and tragedies into resurrection joys. Everyone will ‘eventually’ choose the light. How long is ‘eventually’or ‘eternity’- who knows? Biblically, eternity is not forever and ever, but has deeper meanings, which can be explained another time. So, no-one has been declared in hell. But our Catholic Church canonizes saints, declaring them to be in heaven. As our models, we are called to imitate them, to follow their example. Not to leave them on pedestals but to do as they did. We ask them to intercede through our efforts in following their examples. Any Saint will confess that through profound faith and trust in Our Lord, totally honest and open about their dark sides – ie. sins, stupidities, their hells - healing happens. Tough, but liberating. Then, grace abounds. It leads to true wholeness, true holiness. Living in the hell of exile, possibly because the people didn’t listen to God, Jeremiah assures the people of God’s help. Do they ‘deserve’ God’s help after ignoring Him? Nevertheless he is there for them. As he is for us too – whether we deserve it or not. God will win out. over everyone. That’s Good News

 

[Fauken]

but God’s love will eventually convince everyone to choose Him rather than the coldness and darkness of anything else. This universal restoration must surely be the meaning of Our Lord’s resurrection: that God will turn all our human agonies and tragedies into resurrection joys. Everyone will ‘eventually’ choose the light.

This is heresy. Hell is eternal, and once you go in, you don’t leave. If God’s love is that powerful that everyone will eventually choose, it makes no sense then that Satan rejected God to His face, along with the other angels that fell with him.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

He is correct that the Church has not declared any individual, even Judas, to be in hell. He is wrong to imply that people can somehow choose to repent after their death. That has never been the teaching of the Church.

 

[noactionreaction]

Thank you for your replies, his opinion expressed privately is that there is no eternal hell and everyone including satan is going to heaven! I just wanted to know if he had gone too far in what he is publicly teaching so action can be taken.

 

[Wandile]

Apocatastasis was condemned as a heresy at 5th ecumenical council.

 

[TK421]

This is in the local parish priests reflection in last weeks parish newsletter, doesn’t seem right to me but would appreciate others opinions before taking it further…

Repentance doesn’t occur once a person is in hell; this is a logical fallacy.

God is omniscient and transcends time and sees a soul in all states present and future, so if a person is condemned to hell, this means that their obstinacy towards Truth lasts forever. i.e. because the obstinacy of the soul is eternal, the banishment is eternal. Whereas a soul in purgatory suffers for past sins that were committed in earthly life, a soul in hell suffers for a continuous state of sin.

If any conversion were to happen, then it happens before infallible Judgment.

St Faustina points out in her mystical experiences that the slightest flicker of the will is all that is needed for Jesus to turn a soul, and that he continues to work in a soul when by outside appearances the person is unconscious or seemingly already dead.

 

[MT1926]

not one has the church ever pronounced as being in hell. Why? Possibly because we hold out for ‘universal restoration/salvation’, where God’s love is so perfect, so victorious, so patient, that in fact He will finally win out in every single person’s life.

The Church never pronounced someone as being in hell because She holds out for death bed repentance not for universal restoration.

(The ancient word for universal restoration is apokatastasis - impress your friends with that one!) The early church believed in it.

Actually the early Church condemned this. I believe this started with Origen and it was this belief that caused him to steer off the rails.

Here’s a couple of articles.

Apocatastasis

Apocatastasis (Gr., apokatastasis; Lat., restitutio in pristinum statum, restoration to the original condition), a name given in the history of theology to the...

www.catholic.com

Did John Paul II write that everyone would be saved?

Absolutely not. In fact, the pope states that one problem in the modern Church is that priests do not preach enough about hell. The pope states, “To a cer...

www.catholic.com

If that was the intention of his homily you’ve got yourself in a difficult position their. I would recommend you tread lightly and don’t go at him with both barrels. Maybe start by asking him about apokatastasis. Tell him that word interested you so you went and did some research on it and you discovered that…keep it short but to the point that you read that it was actually opposed by the Early Church.

Good Luck and God Bless

 

[TheOldColonel]

Theological speculation, such as this, is not official teaching nor does it contradict official teaching. Therefore, it should not be labeled “heresy.”

 

[Wandile]

Theological speculation, such as this, is not official teaching nor does it contradict official teaching. Therefore, it should not be labeled “heresy.”

It does contradict official teaching. The idea was condemned at the Second council of Constantinople.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

This is, simple and straight forward, heresy. Or, I guess it would be better to say that it directly opposes Catholic Doctrine. It’s not heresy until he’s been made aware of that contradiction and continues in it despite.

 

[TheOldColonel]

Yet, what was posted draws no firm conclusion about what is true. It is mere speculation about God’s power to save humanity. So, how specifically do you find it contrary to official teaching? Do we Catholics not believe that the sacrifice of the cross was universal and for all humanity? Is that not official traching?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Yes, the sacrifice on the cross was universal, but only those who accept it will be saved. Everyone else will be damned, and that damnation is unending.

From the Catechism:

IV. Hell

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."610 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.611 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"614

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” 615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."616

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."617

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;618 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:619

Father, accept

 

[ProdglArchitect]

(Emphasis in Catechism mine)

The Church could not be clearer on this. Everyone who is damned is damned, period. There is no repentance once you’re damned, there is no turning back to the Lord. There is no end. It just goes on and on and on, for ever.

That’s not a pleasant thought, but it one we must be aware of, because it is that reality which spurs many towards Godliness. We should love God for His own sake, but fear of Hell is a good starting point.

That’s the entire portion of Hell in the Catechism, at least the direct discussion of it. I reread it from time to time to remind myself of the stakes of this life.

(I really wish the post length limit was 4000 characters. I can’t count the number of times I’ve come it at right around 3800…)

 

[Gorgias]

So, how specifically do you find it contrary to official teaching?

Because the exact description he offers was condemned in the early Church. It would be as if he speculated “what if Mary were the Mother of Jesus but not the Mother of God?”

Do we Catholics not believe that the sacrifice of the cross was universal and for all humanity? Is that not official traching?

Yes, but the official teaching also says that it is universally sufficient, but not universally efficacious (unless a person accept it).

Moreover, “universalism” runs counter to the teachings of the Church. It is not the case that God trumps our free will, such that He puts on an Oprah show and says, “meh… I’m tired of this game; I’m giving you salvation… and you salvation… and everyone gets salvation!”

On an individual basis? Sure… it’s possible. Universally? Nope.

 

[laylow]

It may not be the official teaching of the church, but it is how virtually everyone actually “lives.” Everyone who actually believes in an afterlife says and believes there loved one is in a “better place” when they die.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Sadly, that’s one of the most dangerous aspects of the Once Saved, Always Saved ideology. People think they can’t lose their salvation, so they aren’t as concerned with actively avoiding Hell.

I do not look forward to the revelation of how many souls that ideology has caused to be damned.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

Fr. Mike Schmitz knocks this one out of the park:

 

[yankeesouth]

Good article here addressing this danger. Affectus per solam…

A Church drowning in sentimentalism

www.catholicworldreport.com

A Jesus who agrees with everything and everyone, a Jesus without his holy wrath, without the harshness of truth and true love is not the real Jesus as the Scripture shows but a miserable caricature. A conception of “gospel” in which the seriousness of God’s wrath is absent has nothing to do with the biblical Gospel. - Pope Benedict XVI

 

[laylow]

It doesn’t seem dangerous to me personally, because I do not believe in the afterlife.

 

[Genesis315]

I think he is confusing two things. Apokatastasis has been condemned by the Church. Damnation is eternal. On the other hand, since God desires all to be saved, He offers all the possibility of being saved during this lifetime. Therefore, it is possible all could be saved–and in fact, we pray and work for the salvation of each and every soul. The law of charity demands it.

But it is also possible for a particular soul not to be saved. In fact, Jesus alludes to the fact that many likely will not be (“many are called, few are chosen.”).