Is this the reason some don't like the Catholic religion?

[reff]

It completley depends on the people, the parish, many things. It’s the individuals, not the Church itself. Everyone is individual with their own personality. At the local parish here, the people are very friendly and welcoming. I’ve been to parishes in other cities where the people all kept to themselves, it’s called individuality.

 

[glenaitken]

I sometimes feel that people are anti-Catholic not so much because of the doctrines and practices of the Church but because… well, the Catholics themselves are kind of… (don’t know what word to use)… I guess i would have to say They are sometimes cold, un-caring (seemingly) and, well, not very “spiritual”…

I have been to AA meetings and people there seem (usually) pretty down-to-earth … They talk about the things they are dealing with in their lives… they admit mistakes… they empathize with one another and everyone can usually relate to one another…

It seems that in my Catholic experience, everyone just keeps to him or herself… I think that people think that if you have Jesus, you don’t need people… and Who knows - maybe you don’t (??)… I mean, if people are going to be like that, i guess i don’t…

distracted,
i totally know what you mean! I’ve been very active in the church for about 15 years now, and that is pretty much across the board. i actually tend to also fall into that catagory. I did notice that when i have a few catholic friends that i trust, we can be very open about all of those things. i guess that catholic spirituallit ytends to be a little more private, but i’m not sure why

 

[whatevergirl]

Non-Catholics visiting a Catholic Parish and experiencing a coldness, is real, and it has more to do with Catholic Culture than anything else.

Most Catholics are cradle-Catholics, that is, they’re Baptized as infants, and raised in a Catholic parish.

For them, Sunday and Holy Day Mass attendance is mandatory, with the threat of mortal sin hanging over them.

However, when many cradle-Catholics hit their teens, they leave the Church, or attend, on an irregular basis, unless they’re still living at home and their parents make them attend. Others just continue to attend, out of the sense of obligation and conformity. A few, have a deep faith commitment.

There are some who had left the Church return, after having a religious experience and Christ comes into their life in a big way. They are all fired up, and get involved at a higher degree than many of their fellow Catholics. However, their zeal usually wanes as their prayer life deepens and they have a more of a personal relation with Christ, rather than the community aspect.

What I’m trying to describe here is, Catholic parishes consist of a wide variety of people who are at different levels of faith. The one aspect that they share in common however, is the Eucharist.
Outside of Mass, most just return home and carry on with their daily life. A few others get involved in parish ministry. This also had a lot to do with the fact that many of the baby-boomer aged Catholics, grew up in parishes where the nuns and priest did just about everything. Thats changing, but in the North East, it seems parishioners haven’t gotten the idea yet. Parish closings are becoming a wake up call for them.

If you contrast the culture, compared to a newly formed Evangelical Christian Bible Church, its night and day. The Evangelical Church is going to have a majority of people who attend, who are fired up about their faith. They attend services, because they desire it, not because they feel obligated to. As a result, the majority are sharing a same general level of faith and are involved in their parish life to a higher degree than Catholics do in their parishes.

There are exceptions, but from my 57 years of being a Catholic, this seems to be the common thread.

Jim

lol–wow, you speak on this as though you have surveyed the worldwide databank of Catholics…I thought I was reading a Barbara Walters blog or something…lol! Kidding of course, Jim.

While some of what you say is true, I don’t believe that Catholics by and large are attending mass out of fear of mortal sin, or obligation. If you have met ‘some’ Catholics who have felt this way, there’s a whole wide world of beautiful Catholics out there, who believe it or not…attend mass because we love Christ!

 

[whatevergirl]

We also have the best festivals on earth, if I do say so myself–:juggle: plenty of time to socialize with fellow parishioners. I don’t disagree that there have been times when I have noticed coldness in certain parishes…but, that’s not the sum total of Catholic people or life.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

whatevergirl

While some of what you say is true, I don’t believe that Catholics by and large are attending mass out of fear of mortal sin, or obligation. If you have met ‘some’ Catholics who have felt this way, there’s a whole wide world of beautiful Catholics out there, who believe it or not…attend mass because we love Christ!

This may be your experience, but my guess is that its the exception, especially if you live in the North East.

I’ve been involved in parish life for many years in different parishes and also at the diocesan level. The number of Catholics who do more than just attend Mass on Sundays, i.e. attend prayer meetings, Bible studies, teach CCD, etc, is very small. Generally, only 10% of Catholics in a parish attend Mass on a regular basis.

I’m not just making this up.

The Bishops here in the NE, have had the surveys done in their dioceses and its one of the reasons they’re closing parishes down. Its not just shortages of priest. In fact, the main reason my dioceses just gave us, when they announced the closing of six parishes two weeks ago, is because Mass attendance is down.

Jim

 

[distracted]

II grew up a Southern Baptist and a preachers kid.

Wow - culture shock, huh?? I mean, the way you were raised was (to me?) very differnet from the Catholic way… right??

I’m use to a family atmosphere at church. If you walk into most evangelical protestant churches you will see happy people. You will see people who welcome, enjoy, and love one another.

that is probably the thing that bothers me the most about the CC… it seems (where i am at) there is no real … serious connections w/ others… but part of that is my fault because i don’t initiate things very well - or at all…

. In my experience many protestants go to church because of the relationships that are built and nurtured through these activities.

Well, you have to admit that may not be the best reason?? But with your background, i can understand you saying that… Frankly, i prefer to be left alone during Mass… I don’t like that hand-shaking thing (post Vat II ) because it breaks the solemnity of the Mass (few other reasons…). Catholics usually socialize after Mass… but again, that socializing seems a little… (how do i say??) lacking…

. The more I think on and study the Gospels I see that Christianity is about relationships. It’s about relationships with God and relationships with others. Jesus made this clear with what he said in Matthew 22:37-40.

The last few years I have regularly attended mass and I have yet to feel welcome. I have found it almost impossible to develop relationships at Catholic churches. It just doesn’t seem important to Catholics.

You are right about Christianity being about relationships…
I am really glad you keep going to Mass, though… I heard somewhere that we won’t know until eternity just how (awesome?) the Mass is… (can’t recall exact word the person used)…

one last comment, I find it interesting that Catholics refer to Protestant Christianity with phrases like “me and Jesus” and “personal relationship with Jesus”. From the outside the Catholic Church seems much more individualistic then the Protestant Church. Just something to think about.

interesting - i never thought about it that way before… but you are probably right. Even so, the whole reason to go to Church is to not only worship God but to worship Him with others., I can feel very close to God out in nature by myself… I feel one of the main reasons God established the Church and made it the way He did was because He knew we would have problems in relationships and need a lot of help… I mean, if we lived out in the middle of nowhere and were all alone with God and nature all the time… we would hardly need a savior, would we?? At least that is what i have often thought… because, without people around… we don’t sin… Well, i guess that is not entirely true… but whatever…

I am rambling, thinking out loud… as it were…

anyway, i keep thinking the librarian is going to kick me off this computer… so i should let you go…

God bless…
Keep me up to date about your Catholic experience… I am wondering what first interested you in the Church?? Did you know a Catholic or what?

 

[ChristinaM]

I have heard this “Catholics are cold and unwelcoming” bit a lot, from my own mother. She’s not the only one who says that, either. All I have to say to them is - hey, we’re still not as chilly as the Lutherans! (Kidding, kidding.) But my childhood parish had a lot of older people in it, and a lot of “old money” people who only socialized with each other. I’m still trying to convince my mom that Catholics aren’t all like that.

I know I myself am not a hand-shaking, back-slapping kind of person. Mass to me is a very sacred time, I like to get in the mindset of it beforehand, so I’m feeling more solemn instead of grinning and waving at all my friends. I’ve been to Baptist churches with my friends and frankly I was turned off by the atmosphere of it. I felt like everyone was introducing themselves in the hopes of sucking me in. They even made me write my name and address down on a visitor card and sent me a letter the next week saying they were glad to have me. Maybe that would seem welcoming to other people, but it seemed a little overboard to me.

But if you want to see how warm and friendly Catholics can be - get involved with a group at the parish. I volunteered for RCIA and it was the best thing I ever did in terms of getting to know people at my parish. I am sad that I have to leave (because of moving out of state) after only one year. The Knights of Columbus also host lots of social events for Knights and parishioners. They make the best food for sure! We have parish dinners monthly which are also a great way to make friends. Theology on Tap is fun for the twentysomethings like me. And the list goes on and on. Does your parish really not have any groups like this?

 

[BlestOne]

*I am a cradle Catholic that did attend other churches during my college years, but always remained Catholic. Alot of this is cultural and like other posters have said, when we go to mass we are there to worship not to socialize. If you want fellowship, join one of our many groups… bible study, parents groups, RCIA instructors, etc… you will see that we are about the friendliest people round… hey just try a K of C fish fry or breakfast… But when we are at mass, we are there to worship. When I went to Protestant churches with friends it drove me nuts when people talked and socialized during services… It really is very distracting!

I am sure as an outsider looking in, we must look like very cold spiritually dead people… but that is because where the person has come from usually has more of a social program than a worship service.

Catholics throw the best parties btw… ever see a nun come riding into an indoor party on a harley (in full habit no less)? Try going to one of our Catholic School fund raisers… or ever see a bunch of guys outbidding each other on bath products for their wives… check out an auction!!! Every year my parish hosts several community events where the whole town is invited… one is an ethnic food fair… we feed our whole town for free… We have Mexicans with their tacos, Ukranian’s with stuffed cabbage, Polish with pierogies… and so on. Good eats, good times, live bands… yeah, I think we are friendly enough… just don’t distract us at mass…
*

 

[whatevergirl]

whatevergirl

This may be your experience, but my guess is that its the exception, especially if you live in the North East.

I’ve been involved in parish life for many years in different parishes and also at the diocesan level. The number of Catholics who do more than just attend Mass on Sundays, i.e. attend prayer meetings, Bible studies, teach CCD, etc, is very small. Generally, only 10% of Catholics in a parish attend Mass on a regular basis.

I’m not just making this up.

The Bishops here in the NE, have had the surveys done in their dioceses and its one of the reasons they’re closing parishes down. Its not just shortages of priest. In fact, the main reason my dioceses just gave us, when they announced the closing of six parishes two weeks ago, is because Mass attendance is down.

Jim

I grew up in NJ, and compared to Florida…(I have been living in PA for a number of years before moving to FL last year) the numbers are higher than down here…although, the parishes we have seen have a high number of attendees on Sunday. But, the number of parishes, maybe I should say it that way, is lower in the SE than NE.

I think you’re right…shortages of priests have definitely caused a lot of issues.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I grew up in NJ, and compared to Florida…(I have been living in PA for a number of years before moving to FL last year) the numbers are higher than down here…although, the parishes we have seen have a high number of attendees on Sunday. But, the number of parishes, maybe I should say it that way, is lower in the SE than NE.

I think you’re right…shortages of priests have definitely caused a lot of issues.

Actually I said the shortage of priest, but more so, the shortage of people attending Mass is what’s causing the closing of parishes here. Thats what the Bishops have been giving for closing down parishes.

When I visited my priest friend, who was stationed in a parish outside of Atlanta Ga, I was amazed at the level of activity in that parish. In fact, he said they had 80 active ministries. I asked him why it was different down there, compared to parish life in the NE? His answer made sense. Most of the people in that community, moved there from somewhere else. They had no family or friends, so, the parish became their family.

Jim

 

[whatevergirl]

Actually I said the shortage of priest, but more so, the shortage of people attending Mass is what’s causing the closing of parishes here. Thats what the Bishops have been giving for closing down parishes.

When I visited my priest friend, who was stationed in a parish outside of Atlanta Ga, I was amazed at the level of activity in that parish. In fact, he said they had 80 active ministries. I asked him why it was different down there, compared to parish life in the NE? His answer made sense. Most of the people in that community, moved there from somewhere else. They had no family or friends, so, the parish became their family.

Jim

that is interesting…yes, there are over 30 clubs/ministries available to parishioners at the parishes I have seen in Florida…

Change starts with one person though. Something refreshing to see are families of all ages, at the parishes here in Florida. It seems like my generation (I’m 39) and younger were just not going to church in PA, as much as 55+.

 

[Dorothy]

I completely agree with you. I’m presently not a Catholic; however, I regularly attend mass and I’ve been interested in the Church for a few years now.

I grew up a Southern Baptist and a preachers kid. I’m use to a family atmosphere at church. If you walk into most evangelical protestant churches you will see happy people. You will see people who welcome, enjoy, and love one another. Relationships are bulit and nurtered by making visitors feel welcome and having activities outside of church that everyone can be apart of. For example it’s common for these churches to have potluck lunches after church. In my experience many protestants go to church because of the relationships that are built and nurtured through these activities.

This is where I don’t understand the Catholic Church. The more I think on and study the Gospels I see that Christianity is about relationships. It’s about relationships with God and relationships with others. Jesus made this clear with what he said in Matthew 22:37-40.

The last few years I have regularly attended mass and I have yet to feel welcome. I have found it almost impossible to develop relationships at Catholic churches. It just doesn’t seem important to Catholics.

One last comment, I find it interesting that Catholics refer to Protestant Christianity with phrases like “me and Jesus” and “personal relationship with Jesus”. From the outside the Catholic Church seems much more individualistic then the Protestant Church. Just something to think about.

When a Catholic parishioner goes into the Church for Mass it is, for the most part, very quiet and reverent in ther, because of what is about to take place.

Social groups are held at other times, depending on what you are interested in. Take a look at the Church bulletin to see what is going on. Most Churches have, at least once a month, donuts and coffee in the hall afterwards. You can introduce yourself to others, and chat with them.

If the parish is not extremely large, try getting a bulletin from another Catholic parish and see what is available. Many have adult education or Bible study once a week. Some churches make it a point to have a speaker come in now and then, and afterwards there is discussion.

If all you’ve done is go to Mass, and I commend you for that, then it would seem to me that it would be difficult to get socially involved that way.

 

[tomarin]

I sometimes feel that people are anti-Catholic not so much because of the doctrines and practices of the Church but because… well, the Catholics themselves are kind of… (don’t know what word to use)… I guess i would have to say They are sometimes cold, un-caring (seemingly) and, well, not very “spiritual”…

no, it’s because catholicism (in its traditional, orthodox form) is out of step with the modern world and its values. it teaches there is more to life than making money and indulging in pleasure. also it’s an unabashedly hierarchical institution in a culture which rejects authority as a matter of course.

catholics are as friendly and welcoming as the next bunch. go to mass in a small town and you will get many friendly smiles from strangers.

 

[po18guy]

Well, well. It seems that your writing about a “personal relationship”. Again, very interesting coming from a Catholic.

By the way, how do you rationalize Hebrews 10:24-25? It states, “…and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.”

You seem to be arguing simply to argue.

FB, you might try to see if there is a bible study, prayer group or charismatic group at your parish. Those who focus on spirituality are a much closer group. DW and I have had to spend years at our parish (cliquish small town where we are “outsiders”). But, we persevered and have made friends.

We must remember that the only reason for attending is that Christ is in the tabernacle. Do you go to Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament? I cannot recommend that highly enough. Now, THAT is a real “Jesus and me” experience! No matter what we say or how we act, He is our personal savior, and we must have that personal relationship with him. Just look at his relationship with the Apostles in the bible. Quite personal, even though they did not grasp who He was!

Stick with it and reach out yourself, if no one reaches out to you. I’m guessing the original Apostle’s small church was suspicious of recent entries until they knew them, and so our human nature continues. You are not alone, and I wish we lived closer, as I would be glad to open the faith up a little if I could!

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[Scanner]

I agree with this poster:

find this thread interesting, because one thing that really bothered my (then) fiance when I took him to a nondenominational Christian church (I was wandering, but eventually returned Home) was what he called the “over-friendliness” of the people. He commented that they didn’t seem at ease unless they could hug him, lay hands on him, and otherwise bother him. He felt his personal space was being violated, almost. I confess it disturbed me to have people I barely knew coming up and asking to pray with me, to lay their hands on my head and say they felt “called to pray on me.”

I think another poster got it right: Mass is for worshipping God, not a social hour. Many parishes do have coffee hours after the liturgy (mine does), and if you go to those you will see very friendly people! In addition, I’ve been to many Catholic parishes where the people were friendly–not as in, “I’ll sit down here and chat with you before Mass” but smiling, nodding, and otherwise acknowledging each other as fellow Christians.

I think in general, the Protestant churches emphasize personal relationships between the parishioners and Catholic churches emphasize an individual’s personal relationship with God.

When I was starting my business 11 years ago, my then partner advised me, “Join a church. . .you’ll get to meet people and build your business.”

He is a Presbyterian.

I don’t think he realized, to someone indoctrinated in the Catholic Church, how foreign of a suggestion that was.

Catholics do go to church to worship, receive the Eucharist, and listen to the homily and reflect. Fellowship is optional and if you are there to “network”, you’ll probably be disappointed.

 

[whatevergirl]

So true.

I also think that a lot of spin off/modern non denom. churches are so popular, for lack of a better word, because they just feed on the culture’s view of success–throwing in some Scripture here and there. I used to watch Joyce Meyer, until she started preaching to excess, how God wants to prosper all of us…and largely, she means monetarily. Yes, God wants us to prosper-but when that is the sole message, to me, it is a turn off. I can sign up to see a self help guru or financial planner if I want to learn how to get rich. Don’t use the Bible, if all you really want to do is be a motivational speaker. Joel Osteen is widely popular, using this tac as well. I think he is a great speaker, but not much is said about God, maybe a few Scriptures are sprinkled in here and there…so, this is why the Catholic Church is not as popular–because it concentrates on the solemnity of the Lord, and worship…as opposed to self.

 

[Tonks40]

I agree with this poster:

When I was starting my business 11 years ago, my then partner advised me, “Join a church. . .you’ll get to meet people and build your business.”

He is a Presbyterian.

I don’t think he realized, to someone indoctrinated in the Catholic Church, how foreign of a suggestion that was.

Catholics do go to church to worship, receive the Eucharist, and listen to the homily and reflect. Fellowship is optional and if you are there to “network”, you’ll probably be disappointed.

In my parish, that is changing. We’ve established the Catholic Business Directory Network (CBDN) where fellow Catholic businessmen and owners gather together not only for spiritual support and direction, but it also gives them an opportunity to network with other businesses. Membership is over 1000 members strong, and growing. They’re also involved in sponsorship of Catholic events and activities, in addition to involving themselves with community and charity activities.

I hope this is a trend that sweeps into other parishes and Catholic communities as well.

 

[BSHoop96]

no, it’s because catholicism (in its traditional, orthodox form) is out of step with the modern world and its values. it teaches there is more to life than making money and indulging in pleasure. also it’s an unabashedly hierarchical institution in a culture which rejects authority as a matter of course.

well said!

 

[excaliber]

I think it is true you won’t see people standing around socializing at Mass. There are other occasions for that. Like breakfast after Mass, group meetings during different parts of the week, and social events planned by the community. So yes, we need to encourage each other to be in a relationship with Christ, but the Mass is an hour or so of worship solely to Him. We aren’t there to chat with the person next to us. I would encourage anyone that is learning about Catholicism to go to these events too. Unfortunately for some, the 1 hour on Sunday is all that they give, but many, many people give much more of there time to Christ and to others.

I must agree with the original poster. My stand is that, the Catholic Church teaches true doctrine. But I do not think the catholic HABIT…of not seaming to be unfriendly at mass…bUT THEY ARE BIENG UNFRIENDLY.

The scripture which states, that we are to love eachother and encourage each other when we meet together has CLEARLY been ignored. There is no scripture to suport what Catholics do…I can’t even think of a bible principal that supports the practice of not showing any christian love before OR after mass. I don’t think a tradition can be combined with scripture to suport this.

Now should Catholics talk during mass…NO.
Should Catholics be able to pray before or after mass…YES

But we know full well that over half the Church is not praying after mass…they are leaving the building like its on fire or something.
The many catholics who are NOT praying after church have NO EXCUSE for not socialising.
I whole hartedly believe this is wrong.

Simply put its hard to aproach people and show christian LOVE.

Its easy to leave right after…speaking to knowone…and use the eucharist as an excuse.

I believe Christ would be very happy for a church to behave as a family. Ofcourse not speaking DURING mass

 

[BSHoop96]

Non-Catholics visiting a Catholic Parish and experiencing a coldness, is real, and it has more to do with Catholic Culture than anything else.

Most Catholics are cradle-Catholics, that is, they’re Baptized as infants, and raised in a Catholic parish.

For them, Sunday and Holy Day Mass attendance is mandatory, with the threat of mortal sin hanging over them.

However, when many cradle-Catholics hit their teens, they leave the Church, or attend, on an irregular basis, unless they’re still living at home and their parents make them attend. Others just continue to attend, out of the sense of obligation and conformity. A few, have a deep faith commitment.

There are some who had left the Church return, after having a religious experience and Christ comes into their life in a big way. They are all fired up, and get involved at a higher degree than many of their fellow Catholics. However, their zeal usually wanes as their prayer life deepens and they have a more of a personal relation with Christ, rather than the community aspect.

What I’m trying to describe here is, Catholic parishes consist of a wide variety of people who are at different levels of faith. The one aspect that they share in common however, is the Eucharist.
Outside of Mass, most just return home and carry on with their daily life. A few others get involved in parish ministry. This also had a lot to do with the fact that many of the baby-boomer aged Catholics, grew up in parishes where the nuns and priest did just about everything. Thats changing, but in the North East, it seems parishioners haven’t gotten the idea yet. Parish closings are becoming a wake up call for them.

If you contrast the culture, compared to a newly formed Evangelical Christian Bible Church, its night and day. The Evangelical Church is going to have a majority of people who attend, who are fired up about their faith. They attend services, because they desire it, not because they feel obligated to. As a result, the majority are sharing a same general level of faith and are involved in their parish life to a higher degree than Catholics do in their parishes.

There are exceptions, but from my 57 years of being a Catholic, this seems to be the common thread.

Jim

Jim, I think this is an interesting observation of parishoners and there is a lot of truth in it.