Is toplessness sinfull

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ClearWater said:
Okay, I was responding to that, but yes, absolutely, let’s return to the issue of dress as it relates to morality.

I don’t care for anyone’s dressing immodestly, either the topless one or the bare midriff case, because the Bible, the saints, the popes, and the Catechism have said it’s not okay. Besides getting us into hell, it can cause others to fall, and leading them into hell, as well… If there were even any doubt, best to err on the side of caution.

What do the saints also say about this matter?

catholicmodesty.com/Chrysostom.html
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The quotes from Popes included (The Church speaks about Modesty) are from about 1920 - 1960. Nothing from before that or after that. Perhaps what is considered modest is different from one place and time to the next.

Another think that really bugs me is that the standards put forth seem very white and Western and Protestant. I thought that The Church was bigger than that.
Further, do you know there are 12 fruits of the Holy Spirit…

Chastity, faithfulness, generosity, gentleness, goodness, joy, kindness, love, patience, peace, self-control, and MODESTY
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Why is modesty interpreted as being only or primarily about clothing? I know people who are so obvious in their display of the women and girls being feminine and/or modest. Display isn’t the right word; it’s how they talk about it that makes it kind of a spectacle and not very modest.

I think modesty should have more to do with being the counter to pride in all it’s manifestations without the focus on clothing choices.
 
ClearWater said:
They will ridicule Christian simplicity; they will call it folly and nonsense, but they will have the highest regard for advanced knowledge, and for the skill by which the axioms of law, the precepts of morality, the Holy Canons and religious dogmas are clouded by senseless questions and elaborate arguments.

Venerable Bartholomew Holzhauser (17th Century)
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I take it this is to signify you are done with our discussion?

It’s actually quite a good quote to use to exit a discussion, where the answers are nebulous, and you want to give the impression that the matter, or the other interlocutor, has become tedious. 🙂
 
Rau said:
Not with the actual source, but I think it is correct. Mind you, Our Lady was speaking about the 6th Commandment in totality, not breaches of modesty.
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Our Lady of Fatima to Jacinta:
Certain fashions will be introduced which will offend Our Divine Lord very much. Those who serve God ought not to follow these fashions. The Church has no fashions. Our Lord is always the same.

Our Lady of Fatima to Jacinta:
Woe to women wanting in modesty.
 
Rau said:
Not with the actual source, but I think it is correct. Mind you, Our Lady was speaking about the 6th Commandment in totality, not breaches of modesty.
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I’d really like to see it verified. It is quoted a lot but when challenged no one can give a source.
 
Please be careful about what links you post, especially regarding Fatima. Many sites on that topic and ones on modesty contain disparaging comments about the Second Vatican Council, the Mass in Ordinary Form, and our current and recent Popes. Sometimes this is not always apparent on the site’s homepage.

Anyone else notice the OP looks to have pulled a “hit and run”? Join the forum, ask a controversial question, then not check back in? Seven pages later, we’re all beating that dead horse. Nothing like a modesty thread or two to get everyone all worked up again.
 
Yeah, I’ve noticed that, myself, about the posters.

Oh, I’ll keep that in mind about giving websites for things in the future.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Why? Does it make a difference?
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Yes. If you were Catholic, I’d address you one way…using references to the lives of the saints, pope, priests, Catechism of the Catholic Church.

You don’t seem Catholic. If you are Christian, I might address you another way, because I could talk to you about the Bible.

If you were agnostic or an atheist, I would talk to you a third way. So, unless you want references to the CCC, Bible, I’d rather know what I’m dealing with so we don’t both waste our time.
 
I’m a little tired, now. I think I’m coming down with something. I’ve been getting a sore throat, runny nose, and headache. I’m on two medications which are deliberately suppressing my immune system. I’m not complaining, in a sense, about that. It keeps me from having other problems.

However, this is a low dose of the same medication as chemotherapy, and it can knock me for a loop. It hasn’t lately, but now, for some reason today, it’s just made me exhausted.

I also haven’t gotten to my prayers yet, and it’s after midnight. If I don’t do my prayers, I feel like something is missing.
 
In all honesty, I think if one were to go through all 8 or so pages of this thread, I’ve already given all my best arguments. I’ve given what I believe and why.
If it still isn’t enough to convince people, then it’s probably never going to.

I’ve already stated what I believe, and why.

I think toplessless on a beach in 2013 or 2014, in most of the world today, is sinful, because most people have already heard of modesty. The ones who haven’t heard of God, the Bible, the Catechism, the saints, modesty…well, I believe God will know how to handle them. If he wants to be merciful, that’s his right.

I don’t buy for one minute the argument that if we would all only just become nudists, uncover, then it would solve all our problems, that this all comes from repressing our sexuality. I think it’s more complex than that.

I realize society will continue with these experiments on immodesty, but I don’t think anything good will come of it. Just my opinion.

Well, ClearWater signing off. Good evening to you all…or should I say “Good morning?” 😉
 
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