Is Tridentine Mass Episcopal or Roman Catholic?

[ASimpleSinner]

The hat is a birettum. Biretta is plural.

In common usage, either term seems to have grown acceptible to refer to a single hat.

But good catch!

 

[mac315]

Mac, I believe we are to understand he only received a blessing.

But I do share in your distaste for the use of the term “wafers”. As a an ex-Catholic who regularly takes is mother-in-law to Mass, one would expect he knew to call them hosts. Still, I will give the benifit of a doubt on that one.

Richard will have to be the one to clear that up then. Why else at a Tridentine mass would he ‘kneel at the altar…When the priest comes by with the wafers’ if not to receive Holy Communion?
As I already said though, if I’m wrong, I beg your pardons.

 

[obadiah]

As a Protestant, you are forbidden from receiving the Holy Eucharist. That to which you irreverently refer to as “wafers” is, we believe, the actual Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By all means, I would encourage you to continue to attend the service but respectfully request that you refrain from partaking in the Holy Eucharist. It is not only a disrespectful sacrilege for you to do so but is also detrimental to your soul to commit such desecration to a Holy Sacrament which you clearly do not understand.

I don’t think he actually received the Eucharist. He stated that he was only blessed by the Priest. In the Orthodox Church it is common for non Orthodox to approach the Chalice, if the Priest does not know the person, he will ask the person if they are Orthodox, if they say no, then the Priest will give the person a blessing, but will not commune them. I believe that is what Holy Roller experienced.

 

[mgrfin]

Agreed, but I am not sure why this was posted as a response to what I wrote.

.

I apologize. I may have posted it to the wrong place, another one of your posts. Sorry.

mgrfin

 

[dessert]

One of my chores is to take my Catholic mother-in-law to church on Sunday evenings, and rather that sit out in the car like I used to, I have become interest in the traditional catholic stuff. Our family church is one of those mega protestant churches with comfortable upholstered seats, giant video screens, and professional musicians. The music is contemporary Christian (light) rock. I guess that we are classified as “Holy Rollers”?

I may be an old fart, but I’m still raising kids. My youngest will enter his senior year in a private Christian High School next month. He has been in that private school since pre-school and he is Protestant spelled with all capital letters. When he goes away to college, there is a chance that my wife and I may return to the Catholics, because of our Catholic background. However, it would be like putting a square block in a round hole for my boy to give up his Protestantism. The youth groups in those mega churches are also very professional, and the kids want to get there early to socialize with the other kids.

By the way, I didn’t see any families at the Tridentine Mass last evening, so it will be interesting to see if teenagers show up next Sunday at the High Mass. I have my doubts? What do you think? Will the teenagers will leave their Christian Rock music for Gregorian Chants?

Richard

I hope you will return if only to make your MIL happy before she passes on.
Dessert

 

[dessert]

As a Protestant, you are forbidden from receiving the Holy Eucharist. That to which you irreverently refer to as “wafers” is, we believe, the actual Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By all means, I would encourage you to continue to attend the service but respectfully request that you refrain from partaking in the Holy Eucharist. It is not only a disrespectful sacrilege for you to do so but is also detrimental to your soul to commit such desecration to a Holy Sacrament which you clearly do not understand.

This discussion reminds me of the traditional mass I attended as youth and I think the host was called a wafer and the Eucharistic"Host’ was the host in the monstronse always diplayed, like it was. When the tab was also on the altar.
I remember our priest , but I think it was the senior priest, always wear the berretum when out on his own and they all wore cassocks too.

 

[dessert]

I just returned from attending beautiful Traditional Latin Mass, but I’m not sure whether it was an Episcopal or a Roman Catholic service. Today’s Thursday evening 6:00 PM service was listed as the Vigil of St. Lawrence (Comm. St. Romanus) Mass. The priest wore a funny looking black hat on the way in and then took it off. He put the hat back on just before he left the alter. Here is the link for the church:

stmargmaryoak.org/

Your help identifying whether it was Episcopal or Roman Catholic will be greatly appreciated, because I’m not sure what denomination?

Anyway, the church pictures at the Internet site look washed out compared to being there. The carpeting is bright Red, there is indirect lighting behind the alter, there were colorful statues, and the sun on the stained glass windows during the 6:00 PM Mass was a sight to be hold. If there are any questions, I will be glad to answer them.

As a Protestant I knelt up at the alter and put my hands under the table cloth like the others. When the priest came by with the wafers I crossed my arms across my chest, and he blessed me in Latin.

Richard

Richard it was 39 years before I fully returned to the RC and I too attended mass ocasionnally with my mother usually on mom’s day feelling I was doing my duty. She told me I couldn’t go to receivve because I hadn’t ever been to confession for so long. I figured I hadn’t done a mortal sin but made her happy. I never even went up. When I returned my priest never refused me but gave me a good stare so I did go to confession and then i realized I wasn’t the most perfect person sinlesss and frogiven because I hadn’t really been confessing to anyone as we are to do to our bros and sis. God’s mercy and grace is always sustaining us. My mom is still alive and she is so happy but not more happy than I.
God revealed to me in my confessions to my first priest my past and how even some of the littlest sins were really bugging me and I felt were my secret but were like a little stone in my shoe but this is the work of the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth mortal or venial.
You are missing out on the most Holy Comunion and when you see this you will not be able to wait to get your kids involved also in the fullness and then remember how long it took you to return and start praying for your kids like that wonderful MIL who is quietly waiting and praying and not judgeing you but sincerely saying the rosary fro you and then you will kiss her hand as I did my mom and was glad I could thank her before she goes on to meet the Lord face to face to thank Him for me.
I have 3 bros that I now pray for too join us. One is joined with me in godparenting our cousin. Do you have a godmother or parent?
Dessert

 

[historyb]

As a Protestant, you are forbidden from receiving the Holy Eucharist. That to which you irreverently refer to as “wafers” is, we believe, the actual Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By all means, I would encourage you to continue to attend the service but respectfully request that you refrain from partaking in the Holy Eucharist. It is not only a disrespectful sacrilege for you to do so but is also detrimental to your soul to commit such desecration to a Holy Sacrament which you clearly do not understand.

I hope I did misunderstand that and, if so, I beg his pardon. If not, I’m stickin’ to my guns.

If you read it you will see as it very plain even from a glance that he recieved a blessing from the Priest only.

 

[obadiah]

…
Anyone 45 or under can’t have much -if any - memory of the TLM as the regular rite of the Latin Church. Yet most of the seminarians studying it now are well under that age.

This for worshipping God:
http://www.execulink.com/~dtribe/blog/CIELUKconf.jpg
…
We are not there for the entertainment or the padded seats, and multi-media presentation. A Catholic who knows his faith will rush to a low Mass in a small chapel with just the priest well before being attracted to the biggest arena with the best air conditioning, the most tail-kickin laser show,& rock band.

That’s not what we go there. A teenager can be made to see that.

I was born in 1955, I’ll be 52 this September, I remember when my Mother Converted to the Roman Catholic Church, I was about 4 yrs. old. So I remember the old Mass. I still remember " Salve’
Regina Mater Misericordia…"

When I was 14, after my mother’s example I began to investigate the Roman Church, But I fell in love with the Eastern Orthodox Church, because I discovered, that She beyond all others, shows forth the fullness of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I was born in 1955, I’ll be 52 this September, I remember when my Mother Converted to the Roman Catholic Church, I was about 4 yrs. old. So I remember the old Mass. I still remember " Salve’
Regina Mater Misericordia…"

When I was 14, after my mother’s example I began to investigate the Roman Church, But I fell in love with the Eastern Orthodox Church, because I discovered, that She beyond all others, shows forth the fullness of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Having made the same investigation, I didn’t seem to come to the same conclusion. But perhaps that is better left for the Eastern Christian Forum…

Still, very cool that you even had a childhood memory of the old rite. You are doing better on that score, than the most Catholics.

 

[obadiah]

This discussion reminds me of the traditional mass I attended as youth and I think the host was called a wafer and the Eucharistic"Host’ was the host in the monstronse always diplayed, like it was. When the tab was also on the altar.
I remember our priest , but I think it was the senior priest, always wear the berretum when out on his own and they all wore cassocks too.

What is the ’ TAB." ? Youv mentioned it more than once. We use a candle to show the Eucharist is in the Tabernacle. Every time I pass the Altar, I cross myself and reverance the Temple.:byzsoc: :angel1:

 

[obadiah]

Having made the same investigation, I didn’t seem to come to the same conclusion. But perhaps that is better left for the Eastern Christian Forum…

Still, very cool that you even had a childhood memory of the old rite. You are doing better on that score, than the most Catholics.

May God havre mercy on ME this sinner.

 

[mgrfin]

I " Salve’
Regina Mater Misericordia…"

QUOTE]

SALVE REGINA
Salve Regina, (Mater) misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.
At te clamamus, exsules filii Hevae;
At te suspiramus gementes et flentes in hac lacrymarum valle.
Eia ergo advocata nostra, illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte.
Et Jesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende.
O Clemens, O pia,
O dulcis (Virgo) Maria.

August 15 is the Feast of the Assumption of Mary

 

[Holy_Roller]

As a Protestant, you are forbidden from receiving the Holy Eucharist. That to which you irreverently refer to as “wafers” is, we believe, the actual Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By all means, I would encourage you to continue to attend the service but respectfully request that you refrain from partaking in the Holy Eucharist. It is not only a disrespectful sacrilege for you to do so but is also detrimental to your soul to commit such desecration to a Holy Sacrament which you clearly do not understand.

Truthfully, I think that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill, and that you are talking down on me.

Keep in mind that, as a former Catholic who is attending a Charismatic Church regularly, I can be forgiven and reconciled to God through the Sacrament of Penance.

The Burning Bush Catholic Charismatic Renewal, which I am a member, is also under the Diocese of Oakland, as with Saint Margaret Mary Church where I attend the Tridentine Mass last night, as with the Priests who I do Chaplaincy with at VA Hospital, etc, etc.

Catholics usually don’t talk down on me, and yes, it’s a wafer.

Richard

 

[Holy_Roller]

Don’t worry about your neighbors, and who goes to the Latin Mass and who doesn’t.

According to what you say, you go to be entertained. Comfortable seats, giant TV screens, professional entertainers.
But no Jesus physically present. No Eucharist, no oneship with your family, no universal prayer for this world.

Maybe they even have some ‘miracles’ to ooh and ah the people, with a little unintelligle ‘tongues’.

I watch TBN a lot. I am amazed. They have what you like: nice seats, professional entertainers and dancers, and preachers who moan on and on for 90 minutes begging for money, and laying a lot of guilt on people who don’t pay their tithes, or give them one month’s mortage, or pledge $1,000.

Take one problem at a time. Your son has to be responsible for his own decisions. You can’t postphone your’s because of how he feels about it.

It is none of my business. But youre putting yourself out there about being satisfied with half a loaf.
peace
mgrfin

You misquoted me: I did not say that I take my Catholic mother-in-law to a Pentecostal church, I said that I take my Catholic mother-in-law to church.

And yes, I like comfortable seats and professional entertainers.

Richard

 

[Holy_Roller]

St. Maragret Mary is definately Catholic-- in fact, its my parish.

Hey, that’s great. How will I know it’s you?

I will try to be at most of the weekday 6 PM Tridentine Mass’ depending on what my wife has planned for me. Last night everyone headed straight for their automobile after leaving the church, and there was no fellowship at all.

Richard

 

[Holy_Roller]

This for the party, concert or dance afterwards
http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/5/0/5/6/11196505.jpg

We are not there for the entertainment or the padded seats, and multi-media presentation. A Catholic who knows his faith will rush to a low Mass in a small chapel with just the priest well before being attracted to the biggest arena with the best air conditioning, the most tail-kickin laser show,& rock band.

That’s not what we go there. A teenager can be made to see that.

I have been worshiping with Charismatic Catholics since 1976, and I doubt if they would appreciate you mocking them with a picture of hands lifted to the Lord.

Richard

 

[ASimpleSinner]

And yes, I like comfortable seats and professional entertainers.

Richard

I do too. That is why I try to get good seats at concerts.

When it comes to the liturgy, except for wanting to see good and beautiful things for HIM, I don’t care about my seat or professional “entertainers”. I am not there to be entertained. A “low church” Mass trumps a comfy well produced “entertainship” endeavor void of the Eucharist ***every ***time.

Last night everyone headed straight for their automobile after leaving the church, and there was no fellowship at all.

The fellowship is found in the Eucharist. It is commendable that you wish to seek greater interaction with the faithful after Mass, but under these circumstances - daily liturgy at 6pm when many have been fasting for up to 3-18 hours… Well it is understandable if some who want to attend daily Mass needs to get home. They may very well have a family to take care of, or dinner to make.

To be fair, how frequently are daily worship options found in Protestant congregations served by full time clergy? No, we very well may not have the sorts of “fellowship” that Protestants so cherish on sunday afternoons… But do they offer daiily worship opportunities?

I have been worshiping with Charismatic Catholics since 1976, and I doubt if they would appreciate you mocking them with a picture of hands lifted to the Lord.

Yet I thought you just started attending Mass?

And for the record, I am not mocking them. What they do outside the Mass may in fact constitute a new exploration of spirituality. It just does not belong in the context of the Mass. All to frequently, such models of worship have violated the rubrics of the Mass.

I have been observing Catholic Charismatics for some time as well. In a seperated context of extra-liturgical worship, some of what has taken place in that movement might have a place.

But your selective response to the entirety of the post is telling.

 

[Holy_Roller]

Richard it was 39 years before I fully returned to the RC and I too attended mass ocasionnally with my mother usually on mom’s day feelling I was doing my duty. She told me I couldn’t go to receivve because I hadn’t ever been to confession for so long. I figured I hadn’t done a mortal sin but made her happy. I never even went up. When I returned my priest never refused me but gave me a good stare so I did go to confession and then i realized I wasn’t the most perfect person sinlesss and frogiven because I hadn’t really been confessing to anyone as we are to do to our bros and sis. God’s mercy and grace is always sustaining us. My mom is still alive and she is so happy but not more happy than I.
God revealed to me in my confessions to my first priest my past and how even some of the littlest sins were really bugging me and I felt were my secret but were like a little stone in my shoe but this is the work of the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth mortal or venial.
You are missing out on the most Holy Comunion and when you see this you will not be able to wait to get your kids involved also in the fullness and then remember how long it took you to return and start praying for your kids like that wonderful MIL who is quietly waiting and praying and not judgeing you but sincerely saying the rosary fro you and then you will kiss her hand as I did my mom and was glad I could thank her before she goes on to meet the Lord face to face to thank Him for me.
I have 3 bros that I now pray for too join us. One is joined with me in godparenting our cousin. Do you have a godmother or parent?
Dessert

Thanks, I was blessed. Your situation was similar to me taking my Catholic mother-in-law to church. I didn’t stop practicing the Sacrament of Penance until sometime around 1976. I remember that a new type of (silent) Communal Confession Rite was being introduced at Church on Saturdays. I was already well on my way to being a Protestant by then, so I only got to attended one of those. It was interesting.

Richard

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Thanks, I was blessed. Your situation was similar to me taking my Catholic mother-in-law to church. I didn’t stop practicing the Sacrament of Penance until sometime around 1976. I remember that a new type of (silent) Communal Confession Rite was being introduced at Church on Saturdays. I was already well on my way to being a Protestant by then, so I only got to attended one of those. It was interesting.

Interesting and illegal. Sad to say, but these sorts of services do NOT replace auricular confession.

ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/COMMUNAL.TXT