I am having trouble reconciling that sin causes us to fall from grace until we receive absolution. That’s how I understand Catholic teaching and we cannot receive Holy Communion until we have received absolution.
Theresa, I cannot explain this in a way that is reconciled to the teachings of the Church. In my experience, the divine is without a doubt heretical.
How is this not seperation or perhaps a lesser unity.
We can choose not to dance, sing and celebrate our union with the divine, not to practice it, live it and revel in it. It is sort of like this, we breathe unconciously all the time. But sometimes we pay attention, take a breath and think “wow, that is great! Feels good, smells good, what a gift!” What changed was our awareness, not the fact that oxygen has been entering our body and CO2 leaving it all the time, only our awareness and appreciation of this fact.
How is the doctrine of free will to be reconciled with a God that forces union upon souls?
**I believe it was Mike who mentioned earlier, that if the divine were to cease union with us for even a moment,we would be anihilated. There is no existence apart from the divine. We are suspended in it.
The idea that God is a being which behaves in human like ways with human like emotions is a metaphore, which hopefully helps people grasp part of the concept of the divine. As all metaphores, it is imperfect. If the divine were a “man” than forcing itself on an unwilling partner would be wrong. But the relationship between the divine and humans is so vastly different that the idea of “forcing” does not really fit.
Does the water “force” itself on the fish? Does gravity "force"itself upon us, debilitating our free will to float? No, those things support, create a foundation upon which the fish, or ourselves can operate. They are the structure, the stage, the support, so is the divine.Within this structure we can move, act, and be.
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Surely we can seperate ourselves form God and God’s Love.
Again, the divine is not human, and divine love is not like human love. It is not needy or vulnerable. Because it does not need, there is nothing we can do to harm it or drive it from ourselves. It is. It is, what is.
what I can’t get out of my head is that if we willfully refuse God we do not live in union with Him, we refuse union with God.
**I do not know what will happen in the end. Perhaps the divine will release those who refuse union and they will be anihilated. I simply do not know. But I do believe that during this earthly life, we cannot be seperated from the divine.
Maybe in that sense we are like children and the divine a father. My children try to ignore me and my words to them. Try to go off on their own, but as a parent, I do not stop loving them, following them, and protecting them. But at some point, they will grow up and I will have to set them free. Maybe, after this earthly life the divine frees us, but while we are here, we are kept after whether we like it or not. This is ALL speculation on my part. This has not been revealed to me.
I have an autistic child. It is possible to love something even when it can’t or doesn’t love you back.
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Plus I have been led to understand that contemplation is something we can prepare ourselves for but the union of infused contemplation is pure Gift and God grants it to who He sees fit.
**I think this is mostly true. But I also think that people believe that this is a rare gift, or only meant for “special” ones, and I tend to think that is incorrect. We can’t force ourselves to know, we cant force an experience of union, especially when we don’t know what it is like, but I think many have been taught not to expect it, and to be suspect of it when it happens.
The metaphores of the church’s teachings have become solid reality in many people’s minds, and anything that doesn’t “jive” with them becomes terrifying and is immediately assumed to be the work of Satan.
While mystic experience don’t automatically go against Catholic teachings, they demand that we look at the teachings in a diferent light, with a broader understanding.
I think one of the first metaphores that crumbles under such experience, is the idea that the divine thinks, feels and acts with the type of attributes that are common to humans.
About god granting these experiences to whom he sees fit, that is one of those things that doesn’t really apply. That is a human situation and condition, not the reality of the divine. The divine is not a teacher handing out pencils to students who “need” or 'earned" them, it is more complex and more simple than that, all at the same time. The divine is here, all around us. I do not know why some see and others don’t. I do not know if some cannot see, but it doesn’t feel as if the divine is witholding itself. Perhaps people see when they are ready, perhaps that is the free will, the not being forced.
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