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NextElement
Guest
Awesome post. Gave me chills!
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Miguelmdza
Guest
Very interesting question. A little history lesson.
When the Muslims invaded the Iberian Peninsula, they brought their faith with them. For 300 years, Spain was under Muslim control. What happened during those 300 years? Christians and Muslims we living together so their culture and religious practices were changing. Christians were even praying Our Fathers and Hail Marys in Islam. Even Cathedrals were being made similar to Mosques. Later, the Spanish Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand married and joined their kingdoms. They later expelled the Muslims and Jews.
Taking this into consideration, I personally am intrigued with the way Muslims worship. However, I love the One True Holy Catholic Church and would die rather than renounce my faith. But, I would also like to bring a little of Islam practice to worship Christ. Hope this helps
When the Muslims invaded the Iberian Peninsula, they brought their faith with them. For 300 years, Spain was under Muslim control. What happened during those 300 years? Christians and Muslims we living together so their culture and religious practices were changing. Christians were even praying Our Fathers and Hail Marys in Islam. Even Cathedrals were being made similar to Mosques. Later, the Spanish Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand married and joined their kingdoms. They later expelled the Muslims and Jews.
Taking this into consideration, I personally am intrigued with the way Muslims worship. However, I love the One True Holy Catholic Church and would die rather than renounce my faith. But, I would also like to bring a little of Islam practice to worship Christ. Hope this helps
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NextElement
Guest
The way Muslims pray directly reflects the way Muhammad told them to pray in the Hadith. You have to wash like Muhammad washed beforehand, and it is filled with references to how Muhammad is the true prophet of God. Nothing a Catholic should be participating in.
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jakasaki
Guest
Islam DOES NOT WORSHIP our Lord Jesus Christ.
So bringing a “a little Islam practice to worship Christ” is nowhere to be found
The Islamic Jesus called Isa IS NOT our Lord Jesus Christ.
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adawgj
Guest
Perhaps I should clear up my motives. I have decided to devote my time to studying other religions to gain a better understanding of them for inter religious dialogue. Also for anthropological reasons. A key way of learning is actually going to certain areas to learn.
Now for my instance with Islam is I plan on visiting a mosque sometime. Since Muslims pray at the mosque. I was wondering if it’s idolatrous to pray there, which led to the God and Allah question.
I will be honest I really like Islamic culture, especially the music.
yes I believe that Jesus is the only WAY to Salvation which I have accepted my entire life. But I want to gain better knowledge of other perspectives in their search for God.
Now for my instance with Islam is I plan on visiting a mosque sometime. Since Muslims pray at the mosque. I was wondering if it’s idolatrous to pray there, which led to the God and Allah question.
I will be honest I really like Islamic culture, especially the music.
yes I believe that Jesus is the only WAY to Salvation which I have accepted my entire life. But I want to gain better knowledge of other perspectives in their search for God.
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Servant19
Guest
Good on you brother!!!
I honour your thirst to widen your consciousness to understand the diverse ways in which God has expressed His Truth from culture to culture.
I pray for this journey to bind you ever closer with your Beloved and Hearts Desire
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concretecamper
Guest
The CCC does not say “same”According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Muslims worship the same One God of Catholicism.
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Servant19
Guest
Dear friend, with crystal clear eyes of oneness, and open-ness , please look at the devotional character and sincerity expressed in the adherents of 3 religions during prayer.
Do you not see that they are a expression of love, humility, and adoration for the One God?
Why is any of them a muddy water?
Please compare them and try to be sincere in your view, as God would view it Himself.
youtu.be/MooqSi8a5LA
youtu.be/ZbfMyD2FtdA
youtu.be/oR5Svou9lsI
No one is implying that you must give up your expressions of devotions towards the One God, however calling all other forms of worship, the inner expression if which is what God is looking at, as being “muddy” is somewhat unjust and presumptuous in my humble opinion
God bless you!
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Servant19
Guest
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Darryl_B
Guest
We are all welcome to opinions no matter how humble they might be. However there is only one crystal clear water that exists without our muddy opinions. That is Jesus Christ. I need not look anywhere else, especially where Jesus Christ is not “manifest”.Dear friend, with crystal clear eyes of oneness, and open-ness , please look at the devotional character and sincerity expressed in the adherents of 3 religions during prayer.
Do you not see that they are a expression of love, humility, and adoration for the One God?
Why is any of them a muddy water?
Please compare them and try to be sincere in your view, as God would view it Himself.
youtu.be/MooqSi8a5LA
youtu.be/ZbfMyD2FtdA
youtu.be/oR5Svou9lsI
No one is implying that you must give up your expressions of devotions towards the One God, however calling all other forms of worship, the inner expression if which is what God is looking at, as being “muddy” is somewhat unjust and presumptuous in my humble opinion
God bless you!
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jakasaki
Guest
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Ontheway
Guest
To use the name Allah is rather a random choice. Why choose the Arabic word for God instead of the French Dieu, Russian Gospod’ or God’s name in some other language? What is the attraction of Arabic here?
As to the question of worshipping in the mosque, there is a commandment against that.
Having been to a mosque and observed the ritual, I don’t see how this could attract any Catholic or Christian.
Once again, if you are curious and want to observe, that’s one thing, If you are ready to participate actively, you are participating in a ritual of another religion, and this, as far as I know is not allowed.
If you are the pope and are visiting a mosque as a good will gesture, that’s another matter.
If in doubt and you are a Christian, talk to Christ and ask His advise. He will tell you.
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Ontheway
Guest
Jesus Christ is the alpha and omega.
What do you seek in a mosque?
What has happened to your faith?
What do you seek in a mosque?
What has happened to your faith?
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dzheremi
Guest
It has happened occasionally that Catholic leaders have done so, if my memory serves me. You can find video and news articles of Pope Emeritus Benedict praying in the Blue Mosque in Istanbul, for instance. This would be absolutely verboten for the Orthodox, but maybe this is one way in which we differ. Of course, that particular mosque was built on the site of the former Byzantine palace, in front of the Hagia Sofia (on purpose, mind you).
What is there of “Islamic” music specifically that you like? Because I will tell you that in truth the Arab maqam system around which the modes of so-called Islamic chant is drawn is in perfect correspondence with the earlier Syriac modes, which are recorded many hundreds of years earlier (before Islam, even). I mean that quite literally – you hear them all here, with their Arabic names: Syriac Orthodox Maqam, and their correspondence to the Syriac names is given here. In truth, Islam invented very little musically aside from its famous prohibitions on this or that instrument (which did lead to some very interesting vocal music, but in that it was also patterned on preexisting folk music, so it’s “Islamic” I suppose in the same way that the aforementioned modal system is, i.e., they adapted it and now claim it as “theirs”), and its artists flourished best when such prohibitions were not heeded. And, indeed, to look at the modern Arab-identifying states, you’d be hard-pressed to make a case for “Islamic” music being of much value at all, as the social pressures of Islam were (and in some places still are) such that in past eras the most prominent singers were mostly Jews and Christians. Looking at the birth of the Iraqi Radio Ensemble in 1932, for instance, we may note that the the entire troupe, with the exception of its percussionist and vocalist, was composed of Jews. To this day, probably the best remembered Iraqi singer is a Jew: Nazem El Ghazali (and his wife, Salima Pasha, isn’t too shabby either). Elsewhere, in North Africa, from basically the dawn of recordings in those states (except for Egypt, which had its own Jewish musical dynasty dating back to the dawn of the century or before in the Mourad family, though the daughter Leila unfortunately apparently apostasized and became a Muslim in response to accusations of spying for Israel…grumble), the musical scene was very much dominated by Jews, many of whom are remembered fondly by all the nationals of those countries: Raoul Journo (the finest voice in North African music ever, in my estimation), Cheikh El Afrit, Cheikh Raymond, Cheikh Zouzou, Lili Boniche, and a little while later Haim Botbol, Salim Hilali, Doukha, and others.
On the Christian side, we have Fairuz. We win, case closed. (Okay, fine…and also Marcel Khalife, Issa Deeb, Ghassan Saliba, Pascale Sakr, the al-Roumi family, Wadih el-Safi and his sister Hana, Tony Hanna, Raja Badr, Youssef Azar, Youssef Matar, Rim Banna, Zaki Nassif, etc. etc. etc. etc.)
So unless you’re looking at specifically Islamic folk music forms (like mawlids or something; I should hope you would not want to commemorate the birthday of Muhammad), what you’re probably attracted to has Christian and Jewish antecedents, because again, Islam invented very little in the way of music.
Take away the bells and the visuals, and what would you suspect this is? It isn’t Islamic, I can tell you that.
Neither is this (though you can find many a “Sufi” recording that borrows the drone/ison and follows a very similar pattern, and Muslims are all too happy to take credit for such soothing, ‘spiritual’ music…hmm…)
And of course, whatever Islam claims of Arabness (that it’s mostly foisted upon non-Arabs and then gotten mad at them for; see, for instance, the recent court cases in Malaysia about the word “Allah”…but anywayyyy…) is found in Christianity, too, as it was before Muhammad was ever a glimmer in his daddy’s eye: Again, if this didn’t say “Christian” in the title, would you think it was?
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it probably also bears mentioning what can happen when a Christian living in even the most tolerant of Muslim-majority societies thinks to emphasize the supposed unity or peacefulness between the two religions in his native land by pointing to their supposed common heritage: He gets sued for blasphemy not once but twice by the highest Sunni authority in the land.
It really is strange to me when people talk about how attracted they are to “Islamic” musical culture…what music, and what culture? (And I am someone who listens to a lot of Arabic music…exactly 0% of which can be considered a credit to Islam, even when it comes from ~100% Islamic societies…this is the fault of the sometimes schizophrenic attitude of Islam toward music and singing, though; there certainly are many wonderful musicians and singers who are Muslims, but one thing you will notice is that when they “get religious”, they usually retreat from music, as happened to Shadia and others of that generation (1950s-1960s), as well as Islamic converts like Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam (who I suppose now makes “halal” vocal-only music/propaganda for Islam, but whatever; he’s lost with or without a guitar).
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VivienneJ
Guest
Except that if said Christian was speaking Arabic, the word they would use would be ‘Allah’, not ‘God’ or ‘Dieu’ or any other language’s version of the word ‘God’ - anything else would sound very strange.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Yeah, the Quran is an error filled book. If the conclusion you came to was that Muslims don’t worship the same God we do, you need to review what the Church actually teaches (hint- the Church’s conclusion contradicts your conclusion).
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
-Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same God.
-Christians, Jews, and Muslims don’t all have the same understanding of God
-I don’t think it would be idolatrous, but it would be foolish. While Muslims worship God, their worship isn’t as correct as our worship given the errors in Islam. Why use a faulty method of worship when you have ready access to the error free method of worship?
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concretecamper
Guest
Curious, I wonder why “same” was not used?
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
FYI. Your understanding still needs refining. " Communicable " is not the only criteria. A Catholic may not take part in an non-Catholic service other than those approved by Rome. This applies to all separated Churches throughout Protestantism, even the Church of England or any of the Episcopal Churches. Among all these there is no communicable Eucharist because the " Pastors " do not have valid orders, in general the pastorates in these denominations have fallen outside the direct line of Peter.
But it also applies to renegade off shoots of Catholicism like the Old Catholics or Churches alligned with the Society of Pius X - as examples, this is not an exauhstive list.
So the only exception allowed is The Orthodox Churches, and even here it is allowed only for necessity.
Linus2nd
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Miguelmdza
Guest
Of course Muslims do not worship Christ. I never stated that they do. I was simply trying to say that praying Our Fathers and Hail Marys in Islam and singing those prayers like how Muslims sing. Read the Bible like how Muslims read the Koran. It is obvious that I would not use a prayer rug, dress like them, nor worship Allah. But where in the Bible does it say to pray a certain language, or not to sing the prayers? It does not. Again, re-read what I had to say about the Spaniards and Islam control in Spain. They were praying Christian prayers like the Muslims. Is that bad? They were making Cathedrals like the Muslim temples. Is that bad?
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