Is yoga demonic or no?

[Michael_Mayo]

I think that it is quite appropriate to bring in the topic of the Ouija board, as it applies to this discussion.

There is no comparison.

*The Ouija board also known as a spirit board or talking board, is a flat board marked with the letters of the alphabet. It uses a planchette (small heart-shaped piece of wood) or movable indicator to indicate the spirit’s message by spelling it out on the board during a séance. *

So there is a clear intent to get a message from a spirit. That is, if one actually believes spirits will speak through it.

*The Ouija phenomenon has been criticized by many scientists as a hoax related to the ideomotor responses. Various studies have been produced, recreating the effects of the Ouija board in the lab and showing that, under laboratory conditions, the subjects were moving the planchette involuntarily. Skeptics have described Ouija board users as ‘operators’.[19] Some critics noted that the messages ostensibly spelled out by spirits were similar to whatever was going through the minds of the subjects. According to Professor of neurology Terence Hines in his book Pseudoscience and the Paranormal (2003):

“The planchette is guided by unconscious muscular exertions like those responsible for table movement. Nonetheless, in both cases, the illusion that the object (table or planchette) is moving under its own control is often extremely powerful and sufficient to convince many people that spirits are truly at work… The unconscious muscle movements responsible for the moving tables and Ouija board phenomena seen at seances are examples of a class of phenomena due to what psychologists call a dissociative state. A dissociative state is one in which consciousness is somehow divided or cut off from some aspects of the individual’s normal cognitive, motor, or sensory functions.”* From Wikipedia

What any of this has to do with yoga, someone will have to explain as I see no connection.

 

[Evania]

They’re still Catholics, by definition, regardless of the labels you are placing on them.

“Yoga” does not necessarily mean “spiritual,” notably outside India. In the western world it has also come to mean a serious of exercises. You may not wish to believe that, but if you take that position, then placing your hands in prayer position in Church is practicing yoga.

Any type of spiritual practice may involve prayer, body positioning, breathing, and meditation. That doesn’t mean because a practice includes, say, breathing, that by simply breathing you are practicing a particular religion. The same is true of any other body position.

If you have any official Church documents stating that being in a particular body position means that one is practicing another religion, even if they intend not to, I would like to see the reference. In other words, being in a certain body position is, by definition, practicing another religion, even if one intends not to. It certainly has not heretofore been referenced.

Well, who is the authority of what “Yoga” is? Wouldn’t that be the Hindus themselves, and not a random exercise gym?
I bet us Catholics wouldn’t appreciate it if someone came in and watered down our religion and still called it Catholicism. I would think and hope that the Catholic Church would hold the final authority of what Catholicism is and what it isn’t…which it does.

I’m not saying that a particular body position means that one is practicing another religion. Remember, I’m the one who agreed with you that it boils down to “intent”.
I stated that if you divorce the spiritual aspect, it is a simple stretch. You are the one making the distinction that it is " yoga".

 

[Evania]

There is no comparison.

*The Ouija board also known as a spirit board or talking board, is a flat board marked with the letters of the alphabet. It uses a planchette (small heart-shaped piece of wood) or movable indicator to indicate the spirit’s message by spelling it out on the board during a séance. *

So there is a clear intent to get a message from a spirit. That is, if one actually believes spirits will speak through it.

*The Ouija phenomenon has been criticized by many scientists as a hoax related to the ideomotor responses. Various studies have been produced, recreating the effects of the Ouija board in the lab and showing that, under laboratory conditions, the subjects were moving the planchette involuntarily. Skeptics have described Ouija board users as ‘operators’.[19] Some critics noted that the messages ostensibly spelled out by spirits were similar to whatever was going through the minds of the subjects. According to Professor of neurology Terence Hines in his book Pseudoscience and the Paranormal (2003):

“The planchette is guided by unconscious muscular exertions like those responsible for table movement. Nonetheless, in both cases, the illusion that the object (table or planchette) is moving under its own control is often extremely powerful and sufficient to convince many people that spirits are truly at work… The unconscious muscle movements responsible for the moving tables and Ouija board phenomena seen at seances are examples of a class of phenomena due to what psychologists call a dissociative state. A dissociative state is one in which consciousness is somehow divided or cut off from some aspects of the individual’s normal cognitive, motor, or sensory functions.”* From Wikipedia

What any of this has to do with yoga, someone will have to explain as I see no connection.

I posted it above in a previous comment. If you’re not able to find it, I’ll look back and copy and paste it.

 

[BluesPicker]

Dear Holy Trinity & Evania,

    I appreciate your posts because their content and their position upholds and reflects what the Church teaches.  It is not postures and stretches  of  yoga or the physical  training & discipline of martial arts that present danger.  It's the spiritual exercises, the eastern meditations that are inherent in yoga and martial arts. Also it is equating the physical benefits with spiritual benefits.  Exercise is good and learning how to defend oneself is good.  

I first heard about the dangers of demons involved in some forms of Martial Arts from a Martial Arts instructor.  Then  I heard about the Vatican warnings about the dangers of eastern meditation.  I thought this was absurd. But latter a priest explained and even gave examples of people who had been harmed.  

My karate instructor taught from 1972 until 1988 and no one ever got a black belt under him.  Several people, big & small, felt that he was full of it; so they tried him.  This included boxers, wrestlers, blackbelts, street fighters, etc. etc.  All were disabled in a flash and got a lecture from him.  His older sister is a famous Bio-Chemist.  He comes from a family in Manchuria that fled the Communists when he was a baby.  He had a primary instructor on a daily basis when he worked out. He aslo at various junctures his training, like promotions to ranks had to win the approval of the school's master,  Gogen Yamaguchi.  

  [youtube.com/watch?v=V5jAWbuBdhg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5jAWbuBdhg)

  Mr. Yamaguchi passed away in 1989.  I have the deepest respect for this man because he was so humble.  He wore a double wide white belt even though he was a 10th degree black belt, the highest rank of black belts.  He did this to show that he considered himself still a student.  He could jump onto an empty 55 gallon drum and jump off without making a sound.  I understand he was a man of great integrity w0ith morals and ethics of the highest caliber.  But as a Christian I reject the notion of being in spiritual contact with past & future grandmasters.  

   The eastern meditation methods involving the development & control of "chi" involves occultism & spiritism.  They are methods or styles of martial arts that are deemed unorthodox because they are just techniques of assassination rather then self defense.  These meditation techniques are incompatible with Christianity.  Particularly the development of what is called the "third eye."   Martial art instructors teach how to recognize and counter these underhanded methods.

   Basically what the Vatican says & what my martial arts instructor said are the same.  Warrior Monk writes of causation etc.etc.  You know when we will really become aware of causation is at the Last Judgement or the General Judgement on the Last Day. Here we will be made aware of the consequences of our actions; and, also the way that the actions of others have affected us.  I hope he is directing his remarks at me and not the Vatican.

Someone else wrote of intention. Yes, but when we place ourselves in areas of inherent spiritual danger whether or not we unconsciously or consciously cede control of our will the effect is the same.

   The danger is not the postures and techniques of yoga nor the punches & kicks of martial arts.  The inherent danger is the meditation techniques that open the mind to demonic attacks.  It begins when people equate spiritual well being with those exercises.

  Why do some become possessed and the vast majority don't? There are evil people who are evil but not possessed.   There are people who are possessed but they win the everlasting glory of the crown of Salvation.  The Church teaches & warns that sinful behavior in general may lead to possession; but She never states who in fact will be possessed.   But there is one type of possession, Holy Possession where the Holy Spirit acts through us we should strive for.

  It is what God allows.  And, it is important to pay attention to what the Church says even if we don't understand the perils.  We are supposed to be obedient.

 

[PRmerger]

What any of this has to do with yoga, someone will have to explain as I see no connection.

They are both practices which have the potential for occult interaction.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, who is the authority of what “Yoga” is? Wouldn’t that be the Hindus themselves, and not a random exercise gym?

Hindus can have authority over what their yoga practices are.

We can take what’s good from yoga and secularize it.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

They are both practices which have the potential for occult interaction.

I assume you mean regardless of the intention. These actions in and of themselves have this potential. Even though with the Ouija board people are looking for messages from someplace other than themselves and in yoga they are simply moving their bodies in particular ways.

But again, with the Ouija board they might not believe in spirits at all and accept the explanation of Professor of neurology Terence Hines, that the blanchette is guided by unconscious muscular exertions. So they put their hands on and ask questions. Who know what happens from there.

I am hearing that the danger of yoga is that these postures & stretches 1-Honor hindu gods(Satan) and/or 2-open channels or energies in the body inviting Satan or demons.

I find it difficult to see how one can honor a Hindu God with the body without that intention since many of the postures are quite common and there is no desire to find some answer from another realm or the unconscious. And if energies actually exist, God put them there. I cannot see how such practice has any more potential for occult interaction than burning incense or lighting candles, praying with hands together, kneeling, lying prostrate or doing calisthenics.

 

[PRmerger]

I assume you mean regardless of the intention.

No. Intention is of great import. That’s the argument I keep presenting to Evania.

These actions in and of themselves have this potential.

Egg-zactly. Hence the similarity and why it is appropriate to bring Ouija into the conversation.

I am hearing that the danger of yoga is that these postures & stretches 1-Honor hindu gods(Satan) and/or 2-open channels or energies in the body inviting Satan or demons.

I find it difficult to see how one can honor a Hindu God with the body without that intention since many of the postures are quite common and there is no desire to find some answer from another realm or the unconscious. And if energies actually exist, God put them there. I cannot see how such practice has any more potential for occult interaction than burning incense or lighting candles, praying with hands together, kneeling, lying prostrate or doing calisthenics.

Exactly my argument as well!

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

Not just had dinner with them, but also breakfast and lunch. Plus had many as roommates. I go on various overnight/weekend events throughout the year. The last one I went to was three days, and one of my nine roommates was a guru (Kundalini yoga), **It’s always better to get information firsthand rather than from someone’s else’s biased article. **

Your very short term ex-room mates who are self-proclaimed guru’s in Kundalini and self-enlightenment are not Catholics? They are pleasing Satan right? They do not recognize anything remotely as being diabolical as evil and if they do they will only embrace it with love.

Some do realize the dangers and when they move away and turn to God they experience the reality of the situation. The Catholic Church is concerned that training in the martial arts may serve to indoctrinate Catholics and/or their children into a Far Eastern religion where philosophy is taught at varying levels leading to involvement in the occult.

My information is not from articles, my original problem started some 14 years ago as a innocent victim of Obeah - long story and not necessary to explain here.

No, not with them or anyone else. It would be an inappropriate conversation.

Then in reality you really don’t know.

I have discussed such matters with more than just a few people, as there are some martial artists that seek enlightenment as part of their practice. Interestingly enough, more than a few of these people were a mess earlier in life, and were straightened out by martial arts. And, BTW, many were, are, and continue to be Christian.

There are systems, organizations, and clubs where specific religious and/or philosophical material is woven into the curriculum. Questioning your instructor on there believe systems is tricky and vitally just as important, sadly many do not.

There is history of ancient fighting arts, some are more well-informed on any one given topic than others. Not unnaturally, this means that concepts and techniques may be explained in terms common to an Asian philosophical background, especially if an instructor is from Asia and may be Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto, Taoist or Confucianist.

The question is … are those Catholics who attend martial arts and yoga firm in their faith to the point where it is not going to be shaken by being taught by a non-Christian? This might be a situation where it might be wise not to send a child, but an adult might be just fine. Or not. Some adults could handle it, some couldn’t.

In nearly all of the situations I’ve seen, the people are specifically engaging in occult practice, are highly open to occult signs, are mentally unbalanced, use drugs, or have been abused.

There is a process for removing demonic squatters involves confession of sin, resolving ancestral issues canceling the ground surrendered to Satan.

I enjoy researching things, as I have a scientific training (along with the college degrees in those fields). However, I need a plausible thesis, and I simply do not see one here. If yoga is the gateway toward demonic possession, then obviously India should be one of the most evil places on this planet. In reality, it is not. It is one of the only democracies in that part of the world, is the largest democracy in the world, and very tolerant of other nations (except the ones that are continually attacking them, of course).

The purpose of such meditation is to empty oneself. Satan is on to happy to invade the empty vacuum of your soul and possess it. That is why people serve Satan without ever knowing it or deciding to.

The bare fact is that yoga is a spiritual discipline by which the adherent is trained to use the body as a vehicle for achieving consciousness of the divine. Catholics are called to look to Christ for all that we need and to obey Christ through obeying his Word. We are not called to escape the consciousness of this world by achieving an elevated state of consciousness, but to follow Christ in the way of faithfulness.

Science can be used to prove anything if its used with bias.

The breathing is something that is incorporated into the practice; it is not the other way around. As noted earlier, I discovered some of these breathing techniques back in middle school while stretching, well before I ever took martial arts or yoga. Obviously if they work, they’re going to be included in any effective exercise practice, yoga, pilates, gymnastics, or otherwise.

Catholics do face tensions when they want to remain faithful to Our Lord in a multicultural, religiously diverse society as they seek to be modern and also true to their own Catholic believes.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

As far as I’m concerned this whole thread is just another example of the “meat eaters” argument raised by St. Paul.

You may remember the best meat in the pagan cities was often offered to the local gods. Some Christians didn’t know if they should eat it or not.

Paul left it to their consciences. “If you’re not strong in the faith, or you have doubts about the religious / spiritual connotations, then don’t touch the stuff.”

“But if you’re strong in the faith, and couldn’t care less about the religious / spiritual connections, then eat it to your hearts content. Just don’t expect your brother to think the same way you do.”

Likewise about yoga -

“If you’re not strong in the faith, or you have doubts about the religious / spiritual connotations, then don’t touch the yoga system of exercises.”

“But if you’re strong in the faith, and couldn’t care less about the religious / spiritual connections, then stretch and bend your way to your heart’s content. Just don’t expect your Christian brother to think the same way you do.”

 

[VivienneJ]

:clapping: Well said, Bob! :bowdown2: (Oops, maybe that <— is a poorly chosen smiley)

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

Amen to that Bob.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Well, who is the authority of what “Yoga” is? Wouldn’t that be the Hindus themselves, and not a random exercise gym?

So, in other words, if a guru sees a Catholic priest in a Church praying, and the guru notes that the priest is in a yoga position, that priest is practicing spiritual yoga, because the guru is the authority. Correct?

I bet us Catholics wouldn’t appreciate it if someone came in and watered down our religion and still called it Catholicism. I would think and hope that the Catholic Church would hold the final authority of what Catholicism is and what it isn’t…which it does.

Compare apples to apples, not to oranges. Is there an equivalent of Hindus practicing secular elements of Catholicism (as if such a thing exist). Your argument is comparing what many consider secular (western version of yoga exercises, breathing, etc.) to what everyone considers purely religious (Catholicism).

I stated that if you divorce the spiritual aspect, it is a simple stretch. You are the one making the distinction that it is " yoga".

As noted earlier, divorcing the spiritual aspect is the wrong way of looking at it. Body positioning, breathing, etc. are simply tools that some people use for religious practice. “Divorcing the spiritual aspect” actual means disassembling what someone else decided to assemble.

As far as what is yoga, it is not me who decided that. It’s simply the manner that many in the western world use that term, and even the Catholic Church understands that. I would not be using “yoga” in the secular manner if it wasn’t used that way colliquially.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

As far as I’m concerned this whole thread is just another example of the “meat eaters” argument raised by St. Paul.

You may remember the best meat in the pagan cities was often offered to the local gods. Some Christians didn’t know if they should eat it or not.

Paul left it to their consciences. “If you’re not strong in the faith, or you have doubts about the religious / spiritual connotations, then don’t touch the stuff.”

“But if you’re strong in the faith, and couldn’t care less about the religious / spiritual connections, then eat it to your hearts content. Just don’t expect your brother to think the same way you do.”

Likewise about yoga -

“If you’re not strong in the faith, or you have doubts about the religious / spiritual connotations, then don’t touch the yoga system of exercises.”

“But if you’re strong in the faith, and couldn’t care less about the religious / spiritual connections, then stretch and bend your way to your heart’s content. Just don’t expect your Christian brother to think the same way you do.”

BTW, this is an example example.

It also makes a point which I am making. There is nothing inherently spiritual about the meat (or breathing, body positioning, etc.), though some are using it as part of a religious practice. The meat does not have to be “divorced” from the spiritual practice in order to eat it.

 

[rotlex]

As far as I’m concerned this whole thread is just another example of the “meat eaters” argument raised by St. Paul.

You may remember the best meat in the pagan cities was often offered to the local gods. Some Christians didn’t know if they should eat it or not.

Paul left it to their consciences. “If you’re not strong in the faith, or you have doubts about the religious / spiritual connotations, then don’t touch the stuff.”

“But if you’re strong in the faith, and couldn’t care less about the religious / spiritual connections, then eat it to your hearts content. Just don’t expect your brother to think the same way you do.”

Likewise about yoga -

“If you’re not strong in the faith, or you have doubts about the religious / spiritual connotations, then don’t touch the yoga system of exercises.”

“But if you’re strong in the faith, and couldn’t care less about the religious / spiritual connections, then stretch and bend your way to your heart’s content. Just don’t expect your Christian brother to think the same way you do.”

Well said. Seriously. Probably the best brief explanation of what I try to say when this discussion comes up in my own area.

 

[Evania]

So, in other words, if a guru sees a Catholic priest in a Church praying, and the guru notes that the priest is in a yoga position, that priest is practicing spiritual yoga, because the guru is the authority. Correct?

As I stated earlier, and proponents as well as noted, that it boils down to “intent”. Are you intending to honor Hindu gods? If the answer is no, then it is not yoga. The word yoga means “to bind or yoke together”. However if a person says he is definitely practicing yoga…then who holds the authority of what yoga is and consists of?

If you are not intending to do the core of what yoga is: Then you are…stretching. Why is there such an aversion to that word?

Compare apples to apples, not to oranges. Is there an equivalent of Hindus practicing secular elements of Catholicism (as if such a thing exist). Your argument is comparing what many consider secular (western version of yoga exercises, breathing, etc.) to what everyone considers purely religious (Catholicism).

The thing is: Hindu’s intend yoga to be purely religious. It was created in order to “yoke and bind”. ( Hence the name yoga) Ok, so you aren’t intending to do that? Congrats, you are stretching.

You say: I’m doing yoga.

I say:

Webster’s Library Dictionary: Yoga A system of Hindu philosophy, strict spiritual discipline practiced to gain control over the forces of one’s being to gain occult powers but chiefly to attain union with the Deity or Universal Spirit.

You say: Psssh, I’m not doing that.

I say: Oh, so you’re stretching?

You say: No, I’m doing yoga.

(Repeat)

As noted earlier, divorcing the spiritual aspect is the wrong way of looking at it. Body positioning, breathing, etc. are simply tools that some people use for religious practice. “Divorcing the spiritual aspect” actual means disassembling what someone else decided to assemble.

Hatha Yoga is the most common type of yoga in the U.S. According to the Shambhala Guide to Yoga by Georg Feuerstein, p. 26, “The heart of Hatha-Yoga is unquestionably breath control (pranayama), and a variety of techniques are given to manipulate the body’s energy (prana) via the breath.” (Prana is believed by the Hindus to be the universal life force, god-force or energy force).

Is that the part that you’re disassembling to reassemble into a form of Christian prayer?

As far as what is yoga, it is not me who decided that. It’s simply the manner that many in the western world use that term, and even the Catholic Church understands that. I would not be using “yoga” in the secular manner if it wasn’t used that way colliquially.

So you’re saying that you’re using the term because everyone else uses it.

Speaking of the Catholic Church:

Were you aware that The Vatican recently released a 62 page document called “ Jesus Christ, the Bearer of the Water of Life: A Christian Reflection on the New Age.” It lists yoga as one of the traditions that flows into the New Age. The document also states, “Yoga, Zen, TM and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self- fulfillment or enlightment” according to New Agers. It adds that they believe that “anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness are believed to lead to unity and enlightment” The document goes on to say , “It is therefore necessary to accurately identify those elements which belong to the New Age Movement, and which cannot be accepted by those who are faithful to Christ and his Church.”

In addition, on November 16, 2003 Our Sunday Visitor published an article called “Is It Too Much of a Stretch?” by Marianna Bartholomew. Her article gave Vatican warnings about yoga and stated “The Church is calling Catholics to firm up their faith and consider whether New Age influences like those of yoga are subtly eroding their intimacy with God.” She quotes Pope John Paul II when he cautions “those Christians who enthusiastically welcome certain ideas originating in the religious traditions of the Far East” in his book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

If the answer is no, then it is not yoga. The word yoga means “to bind or yoke together”. However if a person says he is definitely practicing yoga…then who holds the authority of what yoga is and consists of?

The meaning of words change over time, and mean different things in different cultures.

This best example of words having different definitions is the Catholic Church itself. The Church uses definitions of common words that are different from common use. Example: one of the definitions of abortion includes “miscarriage.” The Church does not hold that position. Same with “procreation.” Variants of “procreation,” “procreative,” etc. include acts that are not by common definition procreative. Marriage is another one…in many areas of the world, marriage includes gays, yet the Church states otherwise. However, regardless of what the Church states doesn’t change that fact that the meaning of these terms is often different outside of Catholicism.

The definition of “yoga” includes “a system of exercises.” You may reject that definition, however, it does not change that fact that many outside of India consider yoga just that.

You say: I’m doing yoga.

Actually, this is an assumption on your part, which is incorrect. I would state yoga-type exercises.

Webster’s Library Dictionary: Yoga A system of Hindu philosophy, strict spiritual discipline practiced to gain control over the forces of one’s being to gain occult powers but chiefly to attain union with the Deity or Universal Spirit.

Any particular reason you only use the part of the definition, which of course supports your position? Why not use the other part that doesn’t?

You say: Psssh, I’m not doing that.

I say: Oh, so you’re stretching?

You say: No, I’m doing yoga.

I include various types of exercises and stretching in my routine. Most are yoga-type, qi gong (unbelievably great for straightening out my bad back), and a few others specific for the type of martial arts I practice. It’s common practice for us to mention the origins of the various exercises, stretches, forms, etc. At its most basic level, it’s a history lesson.

Hatha Yoga is the most common type of yoga in the U.S. According to the Shambhala Guide to Yoga by Georg Feuerstein, p. 26, “The heart of Hatha-Yoga is unquestionably breath control (pranayama), and a variety of techniques are given to manipulate the body’s energy (prana) via the breath.” (Prana is believed by the Hindus to be the universal life force, god-force or energy force).

Is that the part that you’re disassembling to reassemble into a form of Christian prayer?

As noted earlier, I discovered the impact of breathing on the body (especially related to stretching) long before I practiced anything related to martial arts. In yoga, they have a well developed breathing system which is very useful in many aspects. Breathing certain ways can, say, allow one to tolerate much colder weather than the typical shallow-breathing individual. It can also slow one’s metabolism down.

These are excellent tools for general health and survival, and have nothing particular to do with Hinduism. In fact, read about the breathing patterns of fish in water of varying temperatures. Or read about what happens to babies in extremely cold temperatures. This is science, not Hinduism. It’s just that Hindus discovered this eons ago, and there is no equivalent (that I’m aware of) in the west. Just because Hindus discovered this and incorporated it into their religious practice doesn’t mean that what God has given us is now Hinduism and Hinduism alone.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Speaking of the Catholic Church:

Were you aware that The Vatican recently released a 62 page document called “ Jesus Christ, the Bearer of the Water of Life: A Christian Reflection on the New Age.” It lists yoga as one of the traditions that flows into the New Age. The document also states, “Yoga, Zen, TM and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self- fulfillment or enlightment” according to New Agers. It adds that they believe that “anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness are believed to lead to unity and enlightment” The document goes on to say , “It is therefore necessary to accurately identify those elements which belong to the New Age Movement, and which cannot be accepted by those who are faithful to Christ and his Church.”

From one of my recent posts quoting that documet:

The following questions may be the easiest key to evaluating some of the central elements of New Age thought and practice from a Christian standpoint. “New Age” refers to the ideas which circulate about God, the human being and the world, the people with whom Christians may have conversations on religious matters, the publicity material for meditation groups, therapies and the like, explicit statements on religion and so on. Some of these questions applied to people and ideas not explicitly labelled New Age would reveal further unnamed or unacknowledged links with the whole New Age atmosphere.

• Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?
• Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?
• The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals?
• Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?
• Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?
• Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?
• Are we tempted to deny sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?
• Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?
• Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?
• Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?

So let’s apply those questions to our practices.

And BTW, Evania, I posted 4 responses to one of your articles (Posts #803-6). Not worth a comment?

We need not be so scrupulous about the term “yoga”.

As commonly used:
1st person, “Cool I see the Y offering a yoga class.”
2nd person, “Why would you want to practice a pagan religion?”

1st, “What? Get real. I have taken yoga befor and got some good stretches and met some nice people. No religion.”
2nd, “Yoga is a religious practice.”

1st, “Whatever, I just want to realign my back and loosen my hanstring.”

And let me repeat post #824, “Bringing Christ to Yoga ought to be a welcome enterprise for those with the interest. Don’t you think?”

**Lets bring Christ to Yoga. **

 

[Evania]

Okay Michael Mayo…Here goes.

Well, oneness and unity are pretty slippery words. Are they not. Don’t we Catholic Christians also speak of being in the Body of Christ? Unity in Christ? “Ut Unum Sint”? We also aspire to be Christlike. St Teresa spoke of Prayer of Union. Yes, the East has a stronger monist or pantheist emphasis but we do not have to buy into that.

So are you saying that the unity that Hindus are seeking with their deities (which they feel are within them) is comparable to the Gospel reality of Communion of Saints? So since you see similarities between truth and falsehood, that it is okay to adopt the practices of the one to help you with the other?

That does not follow at all. Why does a monistic world view have to be inseprable from a physical exercise?

Again, the most common yoga practiced in the western world: Hatha Yoga: salvation through physical exercise – physical manipulation of one’s body to create an altered state of consciousness which occurs as a result of the effect of the exercise on the central nervous system.

I feel like there are two arguments. 1) You’re using yoga to exercise with no spiritual element. That isn’t yoga…That is a stretch.
2) You’re using yoga to pray…Okay, let’s switch gears. In that case you are attempting to alter your consciousness to pray to God. Why in the world would God want you to alter your consciousness? If you’re standing there with your hands clasped, you may be in a pose in which gurus use, but there is a difference between praying and altering your consciousness through bodily positions. To be honest, it sounds a lot like Centering Prayer (based on Hinduism) in which you focus on a mantra to erase thoughts and feelings and allows you to pick up on “vibrations” with the goal of emptying your mind.

Want to know what Pope John Paul II said about that ? (pretty cut and dry),
In a homily given on November 1, 1982, he said that the call of St. Teresa of Jesus advocating a prayer completely centered on Christ ‘is valid even in our day, against some methods of prayer which are not inspired by the gospel and which in practice tend to set aside Christ in preference for a ** mental void ** which makes no sense in Christianity.

All exercises are psychosomatic. All exercises involve breathing and focus. Again, Namaste mudra or hands together in prayer has been a Christian gesture since the beginning.

Again the difference between yoga and a stretch is…intent. Yoga is the attempt at yoking (yoga) yourself to gods through bodily positions. If you’re doing a sit-up, it may look like a yoga pose, but if it’s missing the intent for which it was created, it’s a sit-up. Is the Christian with hands clasped in prayer intending to empty his/her mind? Nope, chances are they are simply saying a “Hail Mary”.

Actually, yoga practice is intended to validate occult yoga theory. And as noted, yoga theory teaches that everything is, in its true inner nature, divine - not only divine but ultimately equal to everything else - everything from God and the devil to the athlete and the AIDS virus. That may be yoga theory but I doubt it. In any case it need not be accepted.

Yay, then it’s a stretch!

Yoga theory also teaches that in their outer nature, everything is maya, or illusion. For example, only in his inner spirit is man divine; his “outer nature,” of body and personality, are ultimately a delusion that separates him from awareness of his real inner divinity. Thus, another purpose of yoga must be to slowly dismantle the outer personality - man’s illusory part - so the supposed impersonal divinity can progressively “emerge” from within his hidden divine consciousness (…) Again, this need not be accepted.

Yay, then it’s a stretch!

This is why people who practice yoga only for physical or mental health reasons are ultimately the victims of a confidence game. They are promised better health; little do they suspect the end goal of yoga is to destroy them as individuals. As yoga authorities Feuerstein and Miller comment, yoga results in “a progressive dismantling of human personality ending in a complete abolition. With every step (anga) of Yoga, what we call ‘man’ is demolished a little more” (593:8) . That is just misleading. “Dismantling the personality”? As in psychosis? No. More like a letting go of attachments, addictions, anything obscuring the light of Christ within.

How does a mere exercise help you let go of “attachments” or “addictions”?
Is it by altering your consciousness?
Therein lies the danger…

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Okay Michael Mayo…Here goes.

So are you saying that the unity that Hindus are seeking with their deities (which they feel are within them) is comparable to the Gospel reality of Communion of Saints? So since you see similarities between truth and falsehood, that it is okay to adopt the practices of the one to help you with the other?

Thanks for continuing the discussion with me. Yes, communion of saints and communion with God, communion in Christ, realizing and knowing that in a personal love. There are many kinds of Hindus & yogis. I think some seek unity with all that exists, for some personal experience and some nonpersonal.

Again, the most common yoga practiced in the western world: Hatha Yoga: salvation through physical exercise – physical manipulation of one’s body to create an altered state of consciousness which occurs as a result of the effect of the exercise on the central nervous system.

As you have said many times Hatha yoga is one part of a more complex yoga lifestyle including virtues. As far as states of consciousness and the nervous sytem, I cannot speak to the Kundalini business other than to say that God did give us a nervous system and perhaps means to heal it. But doesn’t adoration also alter our conciousness and sooth our nervous system. I know it does for me.

I feel like there are two arguments. 1) You’re using yoga to exercise with no spiritual element. That isn’t yoga…That is a stretch.
2) You’re using yoga to pray…Okay, let’s switch gears. In that case you are attempting to alter your consciousness to pray to God. Why in the world would God want you to alter your consciousness? If you’re standing there with your hands clasped, you may be in a pose in which gurus use, but there is a difference between praying and altering your consciousness through bodily positions. To be honest, it sounds a lot like Centering Prayer (based on Hinduism) in which you focus on a mantra to erase thoughts and feelings and allows you to pick up on “vibrations” with the goal of emptying your mind.

Yes, I use yoga to pray, to focus on the presence of Christ who is always with us and yet not so often known. The Christian journey is all about altering consciouness, the rosary, fasting, spiritual exercises, Lectio Divina, The Jesus prayer, chaplets, and novenas, especailly the Mass wherein we use ritual to help shift us out of our usualy daily consciousness. Isn’t that why many people prefer the Latin Mass?

Want to know what Pope John Paul II said about that ? (pretty cut and dry),
In a homily given on November 1, 1982, he said that the call of St. Teresa of Jesus advocating a prayer completely centered on Christ ‘is valid even in our day, against some methods of prayer which are not inspired by the gospel and which in practice tend to set aside Christ in preference for a ** mental void ** which makes no sense in Christianity.

Mental void makes no sense in anything. I do not recall what specificly he was refering to. Even if we clear away distractions ther is always awareness of the the present moment and all that is around us.

How does a mere exercise help you let go of “attachments” or “addictions”?
Is it by altering your consciousness?
Therein lies the danger…

Why do you view it as a danger seeing as how we have so many traditional Catholic methods to do it? How do you feel about the Catholic Charismatics?