Islam 101 For Christians

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bella5110 said:
Where are all the Muslims on here?? That is why I started the thread? Can’t you Muslims defend your own “religion?” Or are you afraid you just don’t have the answer…
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This forum is getting childish . Honestly as a muslim, some times i dont want to answer because of the triviality of the claims. or that they have been answered about 100 times before in the same forum. And when muslims answer people accuse them of lying !! Well if you have your mind made up already then its worthless for me to answer. I would like to draw the attention of the members of this forum that bieng silly really hurts the image of ones faith.

I mean whne i came to thsi forum i thought that catholics will be much different than protestant fundemental evangelicals. Nevertheless i see many here repeat some strange stuff about Islam that they have just echoed from evangelical protestant fundemnatals. The most funny and sarcastic thing is when one reads a post from a catholic lamenting how protestants believe that the pope is the anti christ !! But just trun to the post right above to do the same that has been done to him this time to a muslim!!

Most of what is said about Islam from Christians is sadly either straight lies , fabrications or at best misrepresentations . I cant even count them … from the Moon God theory till the Muslims are saved by works passing by Muslim God is not a loving God .

I will reply to this post .

here you go ,

''At first glance, Islamic belief appears to be almost compatible with Christianity and/or Judaism. ‘’

It is not compatable with Christianity NO. Muslims Dont worship Jesus. Your God isnt our God. As for Judaism it is compatable yes.

''Often people claim that the Muslims believe in the same God as the Christians: “They just don’t accept Jesus Christ”. ‘’

No we dont believe that Jesus is God or devine or should be in any way worshiped. Nor Muhammed nor Mary nor any other creation . However we accept jesus Christ as the Messiah and a noble prophet from God came to help the people of Israel.

‘’‘However, as we shall see, the Muslim God is not like the Christian God. Islam rejects the biblical doctrines of the Trinity and the diety of Christ.’’

Yes we reject what you claim Jesus to be and we dont believe in any trinity.

For the Muslim, Allah is the only true God. ‘’’

Allah is the arabic name for the God of Abraham. He has many names and descriptions… The Important is not the name it is your inner belief and understanding of who do you worship. a Muslim can live his entire life and not utter the word Allah and still be a perfect believer. Its Just his name as given to the arabs . The true God is the God of Moses and Abraham and Ishmael and Isac and Jesus and Muhammed . One God created the heavens and the earth and he will bring us back to Judgement , for either heaven or hell.

cont.
 
‘‘The Muslim God is unapproachable by sinful man,’’’

??? where the hec did you bring that from??!

''and the Muslim’s desire is to submit to the point where he can hold back the judging arm of Allah and inherit eternal life in an earthly paradise of gluttony and sexual gratification. ‘’

I dont understand what you are talking about1 and who is holding bacl the judging arm of Allah ? How will a believer not inherit eternal life? whats the problem with sexual gratification ?

‘‘Muslims have no concept of God as a loving and compassionate father.’’’

and who is the expert that has given you such great insight ? Muslims have no problem calling God the father as a metaphor . Although we refrain from it because we dont want to be like the christians who took jesus words literally.

here you go ,

I hereby testify that Allah is my father, he cares for me , loves me and is with me. He is my shield and he is my only refuge. he is my help and he is my guide. My father who are above the throne of teh heavens and the earth keep me on teh straight path to you and guide me to worship you alone without partners.

‘’’’‘to the Muslim, Jesus Christ is merely one of the prophets of Allah. ‘’’’’’

Yes

‘’‘According to Islam, the prophet Muhammed supersedes Jesus Christ, ‘’’’’’

No , prophets are all equal . We are ordered in the Quran to not make distinctions between any prophet and the other . They all had a mission and will be in the same rank in heaven. May Allah grant us their company in heaven Ameen.

‘‘Jesus Christ is not the Son of God or a part of any Trinity.’’’

Yes he isnt .

‘’ We are told that He was nothing but a slave on whom God showed favor (Sura 43:59) ‘’

So is all Gods creation including Muhammed. Why not be a slave for the person who created me and i was nothing. NOTHING!! He created me and gave me life. showed me his way and promisses me happiness if i obey him. He treats me kindly and forgives my sins. If he would treat me justly then i would be doomed to hell for no work that i can do can suffice or equal what he bestowed on me . May i always and ever be more obedient and submissive slave to my master who created me and my family .

‘‘Yet elsewhere we are told the Messiah is not a slave (Sura 4:172). ‘’’’

This is either dileberate lie by whomever who taught you or crazy!! the verse says that Jesus ( if he were to be given the choice ) would not feel uncomfortable bieng a slave to Allah . It is not my fault that whoever gave you the meaning of the verse either lied or deliberately mislead you . May be you need to learn arabic. It just showes how important to always keep the scripture in the original language.

004.172
YUSUFALI: Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
PICKTHAL: The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him;
SHAKIR: The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself.

cont
 
‘’’‘Jesus Christ did not atone for anyone’s sins, although He himself was sinless (Sura 3:46).’’’’

You need to change your teacher . he is lying to you again.!! No where in the verse does it say sinless.

But lets claim that he is for teh sake of teh argument …
So are the angels are sinless and they didnt atone for any bodys sin . Bieng sinless in islam doesnt mean devine. A child is born sinless and he wouldnt atone for anything if killed.

003.046
YUSUFALI: “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”
PICKTHAL: He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous.
SHAKIR: And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.

''They say Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. Various Muslim traditions say that He either miraculously substituted Judas Iscariot for himself on the cross, or that God miraculously delivered Him from the hands of The Romans and Jews before He could be crucified. Most Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was taken bodily into Heaven without having died. ‘’

Ok what we can confirm is that he wasnt crucified . weather he died or not when God ascended him to heaven isnt confirmed.

''In the Quran, Jesus did miracles, Muhammed did not. ‘’

Moses did Miracles to his people like nobodys business and they ended up worshipping the calv . ( I mean the ones who followed him from Egypt, not the majority that stayed back even they saw the miracles)

In Islam , The Miracles are prelude to wrath . a good believer should not need miracles to believe. If God brings Miracles and afterwards the people openly rejects faith his wrath and anger becomes upon them heavier and heavier .

Muhammed Made Miracles , but that is not why people believed in him . and it is a great advantage to islam not a disadvantage that people didnt need Miracles to believe.

’

‘‘Muhammed sinned and needed forgiveness.’’

All Gods creations sin.

''Jesus was called “the Messiah” and was even born of a virgin, ‘’

Eve was called Eve and she was created from a mans rib. The word Messsiah doesnt mean or even go near divinity. In Arabic it comes from the word ‘‘Masaha’’ which means rubbed on patted. He was called that because he would heal people with rubbing his hands over their wounds. No where in this word there is a remote reference to any divinity.

‘’‘yet Muhammed is supposed to be the greatest of the prophets!!’’

This is not somthing that is in Islam Orthodoxy. Islam in the Quran states that we should not compare or make any preference of Gods prophets. Thats how a good muslim should be , some muslims feel that he is the greatest because he was the final prophet. Thats their opinion.

‘‘Aside from two, just two passages in the Quran, there is not a single passage in the Quran that indicates that God loves any portion of mankind, nor is there a single verse that indicates that people can know God on a personal level.’’’

I dont know really where do u bring such fantasies ! I have right now infront of me at least 9 verses showing Gods love on the believers .

9 verses using the explicit word ‘‘Love’’ . I didnt mention other verses or words with the same meaning!!!

003.031
YUSUFALI: Say: “If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
PICKTHAL: Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL

002.195
YUSUFALI: And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.
PICKTHAL: Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah loveth the beneficent.
SHAKIR: And spend in the way of Allah and cast not yourselves to perdition with your own hands, and do good (to others); surely Allah loves the doers of good.

cont
 
002.222
YUSUFALI: They ask thee concerning women’s courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.
PICKTHAL: They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.
SHAKIR: And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.

003.076
YUSUFALI: Nay.- Those that keep their plighted faith and act aright,-verily Allah loves those who act aright.
PICKTHAL: Nay, but (the chosen of Allah is) he who fulfilleth his pledge and wardeth off (evil); for lo! Allah loveth those who ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: Yea, whoever fulfills his promise and guards (against evil)-- then surely Allah loves those who guard (against evil).

003.146
YUSUFALI: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah’s way), and with them (fought) Large bands of godly men? but they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah’s way, nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah Loves those who are firm and steadfast.
PICKTHAL: And with how many a prophet have there been a number of devoted men who fought (beside him). They quailed not for aught that befell them in the way of Allah, nor did they weaken, nor were they brought low. Allah loveth the steadfast.
SHAKIR: And how many a prophet has fought with whom were many worshippers of the Lord; so they did not become weak-hearted on account of what befell them in Allah’s way, nor did they weaken, nor did they abase themselves; and Allah loves the patient.

003.159
YUSUFALI: It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for (Allah’s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).
PICKTHAL: It was by the mercy of Allah that thou wast lenient with them (O Muhammad), for if thou hadst been stern and fierce of heart they would have dispersed from round about thee. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult with them upon the conduct of affairs. And when thou art resolved, then put thy trust in Allah. Lo! Allah loveth those who put their trust (in Him).
SHAKIR: Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in Allah; surely Allah loves those who trust.

cont
 
005.042
YUSUFALI: (They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity.
PICKTHAL: Listeners for the sake of falsehood! Greedy for illicit gain! If then they have recourse unto thee (Muhammad) judge between them or disclaim jurisdiction. If thou disclaimest jurisdiction, then they cannot harm thee at all. But if thou judgest, judge between them with equity. Lo! Allah loveth the equitable.
SHAKIR: (They are) listeners of a lie, devourers of what is forbidden; therefore if they come to you, judge between them or turn aside from them, and if you turn aside from them, they shall not harm you in any way; and if you judge, judge between them with equity; surely Allah loves those who judge equitably.

005.054
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Whoso of you becometh a renegade from his religion, (know that in his stead) Allah will bring a people whom He loveth and who love Him, humble toward believers, stern toward disbelievers, striving in the way of Allah, and fearing not the blame of any blamer. Such is the grace of Allah which He giveth unto whom He will. Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah’s way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah’s Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.

020.039
YUSUFALI: "‘Throw (the child) into the chest, and throw (the chest) into the river: the river will cast him up on the bank, and he will be taken up by one who is an enemy to Me and an enemy to him’: But I cast (the garment of) love over thee from Me: and (this) in order that thou mayest be reared under Mine eye.
PICKTHAL: Saying: Throw him into the ark, and throw it into the river, then the river shall throw it on to the bank, and there an enemy to Me and an enemy to him shall take him. And I endued thee with love from Me that thou mightest be trained according to My will,
SHAKIR: Saying: Put him into a chest, then cast it down into the river, then the river shall throw him on the shore; there shall take him up one who is an enemy to Me and enemy to him, and I cast down upon you love from Me, and that you might be brought up before My eyes;

well,

?
 
Meedo,
I want to thank you for replying and trying to show what Muslims actually believe.

I would rather learn about Islam at the feet of a Muslim than from someone who just knew “about” them.

Thank you meedo.

Perhaps you should begin a real Muslim 101

A lone Raven
 
Yes, very well done Meedo, very imformative.

I suggest you save all this to a document as I suspect bella and other like will be back to spread lies and misconceptions about Islam once again.
 
corvidae said:
Meedo,
I want to thank you for replying and trying to show what Muslims actually believe.

I would rather learn about Islam at the feet of a Muslim than from someone who just knew “about” them.

Thank you meedo.

Perhaps you should begin a real Muslim 101

A lone Raven
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Thank you for your kind words. May God bless you and your family and loved ones . May God grant you and me guidance and happiness in this life and the afterlife and all our families and loved ones and our people . Ameen.

The likes of you my brother have been mentoioned in the Quran .

003.075
YUSUFALI:** Among the People of the Book are some who, if entrusted with a hoard of gold, will (readily) pay it back**; others, who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless thou constantly stoodest demanding, because, they say, “there is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (Pagans).” but they tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it.
PICKTHAL: Among the People of the Scripture there is he who, if thou trust him with a weight of treasure, will return it to thee. And among them there is he who, if thou trust him with a piece of gold, will not return it to thee unless thou keep standing over him. That is because they say: We have no duty to the Gentiles. They speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.
SHAKIR: And among the followers of the Book there are some such that if you entrust one (of them) with a heap of wealth, he shall pay it back to you; and among them there are some such that if you entrust one (of them) with a dinar he shall not pay it back to you except so long as you remain firm in demanding it; this is because they say: There is not upon us in the matter of the unlearned people any way (to reproach); and they tell a lie against Allah while they know.

The verses above showing the Good people of the book . I trust in Allah you are among them.

I will take your advice and make a introduction to Islam on this site. I iwll try to have the time to do that soon Godwillingly.

If you have any questions , please dont hesitate to ask them here on the forum or in PM.

and ofcourse this also goes for all members on this forum.

God bless

meedo
 
One of the prerogatives of the Quran is “abrogation”, alegal term referring to the “destruction or annulling of a former law by an act of the legislative power, by constitutional authority, or by usage.’
This is something taught in three seperate places in the Quran. Sura 2:100/106 says, And for whatever verse we abrogate or cast into oblivion, we bring one better or like it”, Sura 13:39 has “Every term has a book. God blots out, and He establishes whatsoever He will; and with him is the mother of all books”, and Sura 16:101 says, "And when we exchange a verse in the place of another verse–and God knows very well what He is sending down–thay say: “The Holy Spirit (In Islm the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit) sent it down from the Lord in truth and to confirm those who believe, and to be a guidance and good tidings to those who surrender.” On pages 89 and 90 Rahman argues that abrogation in the Quran does not have the legal meaning, but should be understood as “substitution” necessary for progressive revelation.
Since substitution means replacing one thing for another for some purpose, why is it necessary if the Quran is the eternal speech of God?
 
continued…

This seems to indicate that God can change his mind, something vastly different from the Biblical God who is unchangeable in His character and essence. If God is the all-knowing, on what basis on what basis is there a need to substitute? Jesus said He did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt:5:17) and that Heaven and earth would pass away before even the smallest jot or title would pass away (5:18). Scripture is never abrogated, because God does not change (Malachi 3:6). So despite all arguements to the contrary, if the Quran is abrogated, we run into a multitude of theological problems. Here are 6.
  1. The Quran cannot be trusted because it contains “divinely inspired” contradictions. If God has a history of abrogating his own revelation, the “eternal speech of God,” how can one be certain that he will not abrogate it again in the future?
  2. It cannot be abrogated again in the future since Muhammed was “the last prophet”. But how one be certain that he will not abrogate that and send us more prophets?
3.If God can abrogate his eternals speech, how can we trust him with our eternal soul? Shall we depend on his mercy and compassion? How do we even know that he has been merciful in the past since the mercy sections of the Quran may themselves be substitutions?
 
meedo said:
Thank you for your kind words. May God bless you and your family and loved ones . May God grant you and me guidance and happiness in this life and the afterlife and all our families and loved ones and our people . Ameen.

The likes of you my brother have been mentoioned in the Quran .

003.075
YUSUFALI:** Among the People of the Book are some who, if entrusted with a hoard of gold, will (readily) pay it back**; others, who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless thou constantly stoodest demanding, because, they say, “there is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (Pagans).” but they tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it.
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Meedo i do have a question. Does this verse apply to him who believes Jesus is God? because as you and i know, such believers are going to hell. How do you reconcile these verses with the verses saying we are disbelievers going to hell?
 
continued…
  1. If God has done any abrogating, as the Quran indicates, it does not indicate progressive revelation, which is addictive, but rather contradicton and annulment, which subtracts from revelation since at least some portion of past revelation has been cancelled. This would mean that God would not know how future events would turn out, or that he did not purposefully changed his mind. So the God of Islam is either not All-Knowing or is a liar.
  2. If God can abrogate past divne revelation it seems to indicate intellectualweakness at the very least. It not only causes problems for omniscience, since he did not have sufficient foreknowledge to avoid the need for abrogation, but also for omnipotence.
  3. If the Muslim God is not consistent, then his creatures have no foundation for morality and ethics.
 
Loginus said:
Yes, very well done Meedo, very imformative.

I suggest you save all this to a document as I suspect bella and other like will be back to spread lies and misconceptions about Islam once again.
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Longinus, you really need a wake up call…:sleep:
 
corvidae said:
Meedo,
I want to thank you for replying and trying to show what Muslims actually believe.

I would rather learn about Islam at the feet of a Muslim than from someone who just knew “about” them.

Thank you meedo.

Perhaps you should begin a real Muslim 101

A lone Raven
Click to expand...
I don’t just “know " about them Corvidae, I am very learned in all faiths. You don’t know who I am.
For you to be so blind-sided at what they actually believe is frightening. So when the” fanatical" Muslims come knocking on your door to ask you if you are a Christian, what will you say then? Because it is happening now. I suggest you take the course, not he…
 
bella5110 said:
I don’t just “know " about them Corvidae, I am very learned in all faiths. You don’t know who I am.
For you to be so blind-sided at what they actually believe is frightening. So when the” fanatical" Muslims come knocking on your door to ask you if you are a Christian, what will you say then? Because it is happening now. I suggest you take the course, not he…
Click to expand...
I hope that the fanatical muslim doesn’t come knocking on my door as early as the Jw.
 
Bella, yes, Allah’s abrogations are a huge question mark we pose regarding Muhammad’s message, but from an Islamic point of view, Allah can do whatever he wants, he can change his mind whenever he wants.
 
inJESUS said:
Bella, yes, Allah’s abrogations are a huge question mark we pose regarding Muhammad’s message, but from an Islamic point of view, Allah can do whatever he wants, he can change his mind whenever he wants.
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Finally, someone knows what I am saying. I am just trying to let other Christians know some things about Islam, and not from a muslim’s point of view because noone would learn about the other side…
 
bella5110 said:
Finally, someone knows what I am saying. I am just trying to let other Christians know some things about Islam, and not from a muslim’s point of view because noone would learn about the other side…
Click to expand...
there are really many questions…one time after the other…we must give Muslims the chance to respond…there is no doubt, from a Biblical point of view, Allah changing his mind within 23 years smells of human authorship…but am sure Muslims do have a response…what others need to do is to compare and assess.🙂
 
inJESUS said:
there are really many questions…one time after the other…we must give Muslims the chance to respond…there is no doubt, from a Biblical point of view, Allah changing his mind within 23 years smells of human authorship…but am sure Muslims do have a response…what others need to do is to compare and assess.🙂
Click to expand...
I don’t know about the Koran, but what about God regreting His creation prior to the Flood? Or His descion to destroy the Jews which Moses intervenes on? Or the entire concept of a New Testament? Doesn’t that hold that God changed his mind about the eternal covenant?
 
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