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Valke2
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oh man. lol.
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Booklover
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How do you know if a Muslim is telling you the truth? In Islam it’s commendable for Muslims to lie to protect their faith. If a Muslim tells you that “there is no compulsion in religion” and that “Islam is a religion of peace” and unbelievers are persecuted, do you still believe what they say?
You should check out what ex-Muslims have to say before you make up your mind!
Vickie
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mosher
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I’ve been reading this thread and Rodrigo Bivar has a beautiful understanding of Islam. The reason why it is impossible for him to give a decisive view of Islam and the interpretation of the Qu’ran is because Islam is as fractured as modern protestantism. Not only are there the major divisions that everyone is aware of these days between Sunni and the various major Shiite but then you have within those groups those who accept different extensions of the hadith and then from those internally you have thousands of interpretations of Shariah so to assume that there is any unity in understanding inside of Islam is a false hope. However, the idea that the so called “main stream” Islam is peaceful is not quite correct. It is peaceful by their understanding of how peace is accomplished which is very different than our understanding of peace.
The other issue that I wanted to address is that it seems that people are misunderstanding what is being said about other religions being or having some goodness in them. I would submit that this cannot be denied by anyone reasonable person. However, sometimes it is not clear what this means. From the Catholic perspective what is meant by the idea that goodness can be found in other religions is that anything that is in another religion that is a reflection of something found in Catholicism is good. Truth is truth. For instance with Islam we find ordered prayer and monotheism. Both of these things are good. We also find fasting and penance and generally a good moral code these are all good. This does not deny that there is much that is evil in Islam but it also recognizes those things that are held in common.
This relates to the first point of contention which is the question, “Is the god of Islam the god of Christianity?” The obvious answer is yes. However, again sometimes this is not understood. Since Islam at its root foundation is a Christian heresy they took that which was found in Christianity and twisted it. However, this twisting does not negate the the first principles that they accept concerning God are not the same as our albeit imperfect. For instance take the following scenario:
There is a house in the shape of a square. All four walls are painted a different color. Four men are looking at the house and each see it as the color that is in their view. They do not move but speak to each other about the house and begin to argue about what color the house is. What they do not realize is that all four are correct but all four are also wrong. However, one man walks around the whole house and realizes this and tries to explain it to the four but none of them will move from their place nor their position. This is the same as with some of the mono-theist religions. They each see the house but each only sees it from a particular perspective but they do not see the whole house. This is the same specifically with Islam and Judaism. They are worshiping the same God as us but they do not have a complete view of that God who they worship.
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inJESUS
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Well put Mosher.
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Valke2
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Hey, I’ve walked around the house, gone inside for a snack and watched a little television My view is as complete as anybodys.
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Loginus
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I found the furnature tacky so I sold my portion of the house. I now own a lovely condo downtown
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Valke2
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Atheists love condos. They think they can get all the benefits and have someon else be responsible for maintaining their outside.I found the furnature tacky so I sold my portion of the house. I now own a lovely condo downtown
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Booklover
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I disagree! I do not believe that “Allah” is the same God that Jews and Christians worship. “Allah” is indecisive and petty. He cannot make his mind about things. He seems to do things by trial and error. Can the God that created the whole universe act so erratically? There is a very human mentality in “Allah”. The God we know only hates sin, Allah hates sinners, except Muslims, of course!
I believe that “Allah” is Muhammad’s alter ego and that he does not exist anywhere else except in the pages of the Quran. Muhammad was a narcissistic psychopath who wanted supreme power for himself, so he created his own “god” who would do his bidding, and invented “revelations” to keep his followers enslaved to him.It’s already been shown on other threads how he borrowed items from many sources to incorporate them in his Quran which is filled with blunders and absurdities, not to mention hatred towards anyone who did not accept this “prophet” and his message… He even “copied” his prophethood from another false prophet, the Iranian Mani. See here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=118476
This so-called “prophet” had such a colossal ego that he declared that unless one “loved God and his Prophet more than anything else he would not have the true faith” thereby making himself God’s equal!
Some people have claimed that the Trinity is not logical. What I find not logical is how 1 billion people have actually bought what Muhammad was selling. As long as these people continue to believe absurdities, they’ll continue to commit atrocities as Voltaire so well put it.
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corvidae
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Thank you Mosher, that was wonderfully put.
A lone Raven
A lone Raven
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Valke2
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Heh. Moses and Abraham practically car pooled with God. I’d say they had a personal relationship with Him.
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bella5110
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I will explain:
There is not a single verse that indicates that people can know God on a personal, rational level (although Muslims believe God to be a person). Unlike the Christian, the Muslim cannot have a personal relationship with God. Scripture tells us that those who trust in Christ, do the Father’s will, and have been redeemed have been adopted as sons (Romans 8:14-15; Galations 3:26). We are heirs of God (Galations 4:7) and the Father deals with us as His children (Matt 12:47; Mark 3:35, Hebrews 12:5, 7). We can even be called His friends (John 15:13-15;James2:23). On the other hand, those who deny the Son have the devil for their father (John8:44). “All-loving” appears to be nothing more than a divine name that describes God;s mercy on those who repent and practice Islam, as opposed to being a personal characteristic…
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bella5110
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The god of Islam is NOT the God of Christianity. I have studied all faiths at a very good credible school in theology. I am sorry, but you are dead wrong. They want you to think this, but it isn’t so…
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Loginus
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Where does it say God is a person? And where in the Qur’an does it say Muslims cant have a personal relationship with God? o.0
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bella5110
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Oh ya, they may have carpooled with God, but Jesus took the wheel…
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bella5110
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Yes I agree, Corvidae must be a muslim in disguise, he certainly doesn’t have an ounce of Catholisism in his body.
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Loginus
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You do know they are only allowed to lie about their faith under a serious threat. Like if you threaten to shoot them or someone they care about? seems like a good reason to lie no?..
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bella5110
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Come again??You do know they are only allowed abut their faith under a serious threat. Like if you threaten to shoot them or someone they care about?
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bella5110
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To Muslims God has no likeness (Sura42:11), is transcendent (Sura 4:171), is unknowable (apart from revelation), and is wholly other and totally different. He is neither physical nor spirit. The Bible, contradicting the Quran, tells us that we have been created in God’s image and likeness (Genesis 1:26027) and that we have knowledge of God in our hearts (Romans 1:19-20). Moreover, Scripture tells us that God is spirit. (John 4:24).
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Valke2
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. "And the Lord spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. (Ex. 33:11)
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bella5110
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The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matt 1:1) “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name Him Emmanuel”, which means “God is with us”. (Matt 1:23).
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