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bella5110
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Excellent post. You too must of studied other faiths…
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Booklover
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Thanks, Rodrigo! Keep up the good work! Your posts are always enlightening.Vickie
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bella5110
Guest
Longinus, or I should say Longenius,
In the Muslim world it is Gihad. We the non-muslim spell it Jihad. Any muslim want to correct me on this one? If I am wrong, I will apologize, but in my studies, this is what I was taught.
In the Muslim world it is Gihad. We the non-muslim spell it Jihad. Any muslim want to correct me on this one? If I am wrong, I will apologize, but in my studies, this is what I was taught.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Thanks for the compliments, bella and Booklover.
Loginus,
You have to understand the beauty of Islam. Many principles in Islam have entirely opposite meanings. Jihad is the obvious example.
The literal meaning of the word Jihad is ‘striving’, ‘effort’, struggle. However, the actual meaning is different as the striving, effort, struggle, can be applied in two different ways.
Jihad can mean two things depending on how it is applied:
What concerns non-Muslims is the lesser Jihad because it applies to them. The term, ‘jihad’ as used in the West refers not to the Greater Jihad but the Lesser Jihad. To be strictly accurate, we should be saying ‘lesser jihad’ when we use the term ‘jihad’. That is what our media should be doing. But since the greater jihad does not concern us, we just use a short-cut and use the term ‘jihad’ when it applies to us (when we are really meaning ‘lesser jihad’.
So when I hear Muslims try to pull the wool over our eyes by misleading us about which jihad, the greater or the lesser, that the Western world is talking about, I have to laugh.
I refer all readers to Surah 9 - the infamous Surah of the Sword. In this surah the word ‘jahid’ is used numerous times - and each time it refers to the performance of violence and/or persecution against non-Muslims. Nowhere in Surah 9 is the word ‘jahid’ used to denote the peaceful inner Jihad.
Jahid = Jihad.
The word everyone knows is ‘Mujahedeen’. This is a holy warrior who kills non-Muslims for Islam. I presume you’ve heard of this word before. It means, “he who performs Jihad”.
As for the claim that Islam does not have a word for holy war - this is also false, as Muslims in the past and present use the word ‘jihad’ to mean holy war - when it is used in the context of non-Muslims.
This is seen by the words of Ibn Taymiyya (one of the greatest and most authoritative Islamic masters).
Ibn Taymiya (1268-1328) took an even more active view of j’ihad. He argued that a ruler who fails to enforce the Shari’a (Islamic law) in all aspects forfeits his right to rule - thus, jihad against this ruler becomes acceptable, if not mandatory. One of the aspects of Shari’a which a Muslim ruler must enforce is, in fact, jihad itself - but against the enemies of Islam, especially those who threaten it form the outside. Taymiya’s thoughts have heavily influenced Muslim extremists in the twentieth century, including the Muslim Brotherhood and Osama bin Laden.
atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/blfaq_islam_jihad.htm
Hope this helps,
Rodrigo
Loginus,
You have to understand the beauty of Islam. Many principles in Islam have entirely opposite meanings. Jihad is the obvious example.
The literal meaning of the word Jihad is ‘striving’, ‘effort’, struggle. However, the actual meaning is different as the striving, effort, struggle, can be applied in two different ways.
Jihad can mean two things depending on how it is applied:
- The Greater Jihad al-jihad al-akbar. This is a peaceful inward-looking Jihad.
- The Lesser Jihad al-jihad al-asghar. This is the violent outward-looking Jihad.
What concerns non-Muslims is the lesser Jihad because it applies to them. The term, ‘jihad’ as used in the West refers not to the Greater Jihad but the Lesser Jihad. To be strictly accurate, we should be saying ‘lesser jihad’ when we use the term ‘jihad’. That is what our media should be doing. But since the greater jihad does not concern us, we just use a short-cut and use the term ‘jihad’ when it applies to us (when we are really meaning ‘lesser jihad’.
So when I hear Muslims try to pull the wool over our eyes by misleading us about which jihad, the greater or the lesser, that the Western world is talking about, I have to laugh.
I refer all readers to Surah 9 - the infamous Surah of the Sword. In this surah the word ‘jahid’ is used numerous times - and each time it refers to the performance of violence and/or persecution against non-Muslims. Nowhere in Surah 9 is the word ‘jahid’ used to denote the peaceful inner Jihad.
Jahid = Jihad.
The word everyone knows is ‘Mujahedeen’. This is a holy warrior who kills non-Muslims for Islam. I presume you’ve heard of this word before. It means, “he who performs Jihad”.
As for the claim that Islam does not have a word for holy war - this is also false, as Muslims in the past and present use the word ‘jihad’ to mean holy war - when it is used in the context of non-Muslims.
This is seen by the words of Ibn Taymiyya (one of the greatest and most authoritative Islamic masters).
Ibn Taymiya (1268-1328) took an even more active view of j’ihad. He argued that a ruler who fails to enforce the Shari’a (Islamic law) in all aspects forfeits his right to rule - thus, jihad against this ruler becomes acceptable, if not mandatory. One of the aspects of Shari’a which a Muslim ruler must enforce is, in fact, jihad itself - but against the enemies of Islam, especially those who threaten it form the outside. Taymiya’s thoughts have heavily influenced Muslim extremists in the twentieth century, including the Muslim Brotherhood and Osama bin Laden.
atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/blfaq_islam_jihad.htm
Hope this helps,
Rodrigo
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bella5110
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Why is it that everyone elses posts are enlightning when I say the same thing and back it up?? Who do you think started this thread so others can know the truth?
Vickie
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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Your posts are enlightening too, bella bellissimo.
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Loginus
Guest
O Rodrigo I know. Trying to define anything or interpret anything i islam is as easy as trying to define ‘love’ or ‘freedom’ hehe. Though I disagree, I do admit you pose very convincing arguements that do seem well thought out and well researched.
But you have to admit this is a one-sided arguement. Our resident Muslims have long given up contending with these pts as whenever they do they get a wave of angry replies. I say to properly assess your credibility and info, it would be much more useful to post them on a Islamic Apologetics forums and link the results.
As for bella, the reason noone agrees with you is most of the time you simply deem all religions (not just islam) as evil. When it comes to Islam your arguements are little more than tying to tell ppl they have horns and a tail.
Good day
But you have to admit this is a one-sided arguement. Our resident Muslims have long given up contending with these pts as whenever they do they get a wave of angry replies. I say to properly assess your credibility and info, it would be much more useful to post them on a Islamic Apologetics forums and link the results.
As for bella, the reason noone agrees with you is most of the time you simply deem all religions (not just islam) as evil. When it comes to Islam your arguements are little more than tying to tell ppl they have horns and a tail.
Good day
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Booklover
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Valke2
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Doesn’t the Koran also say we are created in God’s image? I don’t know about Christians, but Jews don’t take that verse in Genesis to mean that we are physically like God. Rambam in fact wrote a whole treatise in response to the misplaced belief that God has physical attributes.
What you described about Islam’s view of God sounds like abstract monotheism, which is also part of Jewish theology. In fact, God is so abstract that not only does he have no physical attributes, He doesn’t even have a name that we can use.
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bella5110
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I never deemed evil Longenius, but truth.O Rodrigo I know. Trying to define anything or interpret anything i islam is as easy as trying to define ‘love’ or ‘freedom’ hehe. Though I disagree, I do admit you pose very convincing arguements that do seem well thought out and well researched.
But you have to admit this is a one-sided arguement. Our resident Muslims have long given up contending with these pts as whenever they do they get a wave of angry replies. I say to properly assess your credibility and info, it would be much more useful to post them on a Islamic Apologetics forums and link the results.
As for bella, the reason noone agrees with you is most of the time you simply deem all religions (not just islam) as evil. When it comes to Islam your arguements are little more than tying to tell ppl they have horns and a tail.
Good day
Umm, is this the same person who said there nothing wrong with Satanism??
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bella5110
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It is what it is…
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bella5110
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Thank you Booklover and Rodrigo…
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Loginus
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O plz, your posts are always loaded in away to portray any non-catholic religion as intrinsically evil.I never deemed evil Longenius, but truth.
Umm, is this the same person who said there nothing wrong with Satanism??
As for Satanism, no, they are ust angry atheists. You seem to be confusing them with satanism (small s intented). satanism is slur used for ppl the church of old thought as being evil and godless. Big S kind is just existentialism and buddhism with a different name
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bella5110
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My posts are maybe too intellectual for you, anyway,
there is no getting around satanism Longinus, it is what it is. Evil.
What are you a grammar teacher? Stop correcting me. If everytime I corrected you here, these threads would be 5 miles long…
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meedo
Guest
So Bella,
why dont you appologise for giving us misinformation about Islam? I have corrected you so many times and proven you wrong.
How about a declaration of infaliability and an admission of error.
You kept asking for a challenger to defend the muslim faith. Well finally you had one and he had proven you wrong. Now when you are proven wrong you forgot the whole subject and challenge?
i dont see you and Rodrigo as versed in Religions. You are versed in hating other religions.
Good luck with your career
meedo
why dont you appologise for giving us misinformation about Islam? I have corrected you so many times and proven you wrong.
How about a declaration of infaliability and an admission of error.
You kept asking for a challenger to defend the muslim faith. Well finally you had one and he had proven you wrong. Now when you are proven wrong you forgot the whole subject and challenge?
i dont see you and Rodrigo as versed in Religions. You are versed in hating other religions.
Good luck with your career
meedo
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corvidae
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Just so if anyone wonders where I went,
I see no use in arguing with someone who feels this way.
Goodbye all
A lone Raven
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meedo
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The Quran says that God has created man in the best of form. And yes in Islam like in Judaism we are prohibited from giving any attributes to God that he didnt give to himself as well as prohibited from liking him tyo anything of his creations.
The reason why trinitarians tolerate Judaism is because it came before them and their God was a jew. If it wasnt for that fact Judaism would be called evil same as they call Islam.
The Christian God is Jesus. He is totally different from what the Jews or Muslims worship. Jews of the arab world call God Allah same as muslims.
The problem with Christians that if they concede that Jews and Muslims worship the same entity then they would be left alone with their trinitarian belief.
Yes the Christian God is not the Muslim God . Also yes the Christian God is not the Jewish God . Plain and simple.
salam
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Valke2
Guest
I thought you were taking a break to watch Lawrence of Arabia.
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corvidae
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Nope, went to work a Catholic, came back and people were calling me a Muslim in disguise.
A lone Raven
you don’t think my job has anything to do with it do you?
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inJESUS
Guest
Meedo if you dont mind, can you respond to my post number 55?thx
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