Islam 101 For Christians

[murtad]

The reason why trinitarians tolerate Judaism is because it came before them and their God was a jew. If it wasnt for that fact Judaism would be called evil same as they call Islam.

That’s inaccurate. Christians have never said God was a Jew, as in the Scriptures, He says “In God, there is no Jew and Greek”.

Jews of the arab world call God Allah same as muslims.

This is an absolute untruth. The Jews of the Arab world worship in Hebrew rites since they consider Arabic a pagan language. All Jews, whether Ashkenazim, Sephardim or Mizrahim worship Adonay, god of the Hebrews and NOT Allah, god of the Arabs.

Yes the Christian God is not the Muslim God .

You are correct for once! The Christian God is Trinity and will never be same as the Muslim “God”, which is not God at all.

Also yes the Christian God is not the Jewish God . Plain and simple.

That’s false. You show us that you know nothing of ancient Judaism. The Christian God is the Jewish God, who is Trinity. Its plain and simple. Jews worship Trinity too - just ask Rabbi Moshe Roisen.

 

[Valke2]

The founder of Jews for Jesus can hardly be said to speak for anything remotely resembling traditional judaism. For openers, it is not a form of judaism. It’s an Evangelical Christian movement.

 

[meedo]

Meedo,
Thanks for the information. I would like to pose a few more questions because I am curious:

1. What does Muslim tradition think of the 12 Apostles of Jesus? I assume not too highly since they would have been responsible for the “dietification” of Christ according to your tradition. Is this accurate?
2. Why do you not believe it was possible for Christ to have been put to death on the cross? Many other prophets in the Old Testament were killed so why would it not be possible that God would allow it?

Many Thanks

1- We think highly of the companions of Jesus. However we dont have much information about them. Most Islamic scholars would say that they wouldnt be part of any dietification.

2- I do not believe it is impossible. I believe that it just didnt happen because the Quran confirms the opposite.

thanks

 

[meedo]

''That’s inaccurate. Christians have never said God was a Jew, as in the Scriptures, He says “In God, there is no Jew and Greek”.

You dont have to say it. Jesus was a jew and he is your God. Therefore your God is a Jew.

‘‘This is an absolute untruth. The Jews of the Arab world worship in Hebrew rites since they consider Arabic a pagan language. All Jews, whether Ashkenazim, Sephardim or Mizrahim worship Adonay, god of the Hebrews and NOT Allah, god of the Arabs.’’

In Hebreww you call him Adonai and the Arab jews call him in Arabic Allah. Ask any Yemenite jew .

‘‘That’s false. You show us that you know nothing of ancient Judaism. The Christian God is the Jewish God, who is Trinity. Its plain and simple. Jews worship Trinity too - just ask Rabbi Moshe Roisen.’’’

I dont have to ask any Rabbis because any Rabbi would be considered a lunatic in Judaism if he call Jesus his God . Hec Jesus himself was accused of heresy because he said he was the son of God , here is the proof of ancient Judaism from YOUR OWN bible !!!

Just go to an Orthodox Jew and tell him that you worship Jesus and the Holy Ghost and the father three persons in one God and see if this is the God he worships. Stop fooling yourselves !!! Many Orthodox Jews wouldnt even set foot in Churches because all of those pictures of Mary and Jesus .

 

[Valke2]

Meedo,
Thanks for the information. I would like to pose a few more questions because I am curious:

1. What does Muslim tradition think of the 12 Apostles of Jesus? I assume not too highly since they would have been responsible for the “dietification” of Christ according to your tradition. Is this accurate?
2. Why do you not believe it was possible for Christ to have been put to death on the cross? Many other prophets in the Old Testament were killed so why would it not be possible that God would allow it?

Many Thanks

which prophets were killed? I hear this often and I have to admit that I don’t really know how the prophets died, other than Moses and David

 

[meedo]

Really? Then why does Muhammad make himself his equal when saying that until one loves Allah and his prophet more than anything else he will not have the true faith?
QUOTE]

He didnt make himself equal . You claim he did. He didnt untill you love Allah and the Prophet ‘‘at the same degree of love’’!!!

Stop inventing your own Islam and then condemning it !

meeod

 

[meedo]

yes Meedo there IS a gospel that has the story of Jesus talking while he is a baby. Did you read it? here it is , you can read it in 10mn:
newadvent.org/fathers/0806.htm

Do you believe this gospel is the inspired one and our is the uninspired one?

so another man was portrayed to be Jesus, right? Allah made him look like Jesus?

I dont believe any Gospel of Jesus right now exist completely as Jesus said it. There are words and opinionsa here and there and stories from different people. Truth is scattered here and there between them. Thats why God sent Muhammed with the Quran.

The Quran said that it looked to them like it was Jesus who was crucified and died. But it wasnt .

meedo

 

[meedo]

Meedo i do have a question. Does this verse apply to him who believes Jesus is God? because as you and i know, such believers are going to hell. How do you reconcile these verses with the verses saying we are disbelievers going to hell?

Yes this verse applies to whom who believes Jesus is God. Weather they are going to hell or not that is not my business. God gives credit to whomever who earns it weather believer or unbeliever . When a fire worshipper works hard he gets rewarded well and becomes rich . When a muslim is lazy he gets paid nothing. When a christian is Kind God commends him and rewards him for it, when a muslim is evil God punishes him and rebukes him.

Muslims believe that in the books that was before us there are words of God and great commandements . We believe Islam is not a new message. Goodness is not our monopoly and we are not a chosen people. We are just a humans that he created among humanity . He gave all humanity a fair test in proper Belief an solid obedience . who ever succeed will go to heaven whatever he called himself and who ever fails will go to hell whatever he called himself.

salam

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

The reason why trinitarians tolerate Judaism is because it came before them and their God was a jew. If it wasnt for that fact Judaism would be called evil same as they call Islam.

Hold on a moment. I’m not calling Islam evil and I’m Catholic (ie., Christian). Furthermore, I’ve tried to speak out against those who do think that Islam is evil, and they are going against Church teaching whenever they say that Islam is evil.

Indeed, if Islam were purely evil, a claim which I’ve repeatedly spoken out against, then there would be no discussion between the two groups at all. It would be like discussions between Catholic bishops and pro-choice supporters, hoping for some kind of happy medium between the two positions.

But when it comes to abortion, there is no compromise. And whenever discussions between these two groups do occur, the dialogue is entirely polemic and neither side is looking to give anything to the other. I’m sure the Catholic bishops who are loyal to the Church’s teachings are not interested in compromise on this matter.

 

[wcknight]

Yes this verse applies to whom who believes Jesus is God. Weather they are going to hell or not that is not my business. God gives credit to whomever who earns it weather believer or unbeliever . When a fire worshipper works hard he gets rewarded well and becomes rich . When a muslim is lazy he gets paid nothing. When a christian is Kind God commends him and rewards him for it, when a muslim is evil God punishes him and rebukes him.

Muslims believe that in the books that was before us there are words of God and great commandements . We believe Islam is not a new message. Goodness is not our monopoly and we are not a chosen people. We are just a humans that he created among humanity . He gave all humanity a fair test in proper Belief an solid obedience . who ever succeed will go to heaven whatever he called himself and who ever fails will go to hell whatever he called himself.

salam

If I read you correctly you’re saying the good are rewarded and evil is punished… sounds like a square deal to me… not too much you can argue about there.

 

[meedo]

If I read you correctly you’re saying the good are rewarded and evil is punished… sounds like a square deal to me… not too much you can argue about there.

You are reading me correctly and i am an Orthodox Sunni Muslim.

salam

 

[meedo]

Hold on a moment. I’m not calling Islam evil and I’m Catholic (ie., Christian). Furthermore, I’ve tried to speak out against those who do think that Islam is evil, and they are going against Church teaching whenever they say that Islam is evil.

Indeed, if Islam were purely evil, a claim which I’ve repeatedly spoken out against, then there would be no discussion between the two groups at all. It would be like discussions between Catholic bishops and pro-choice supporters, hoping for some kind of happy medium between the two positions.

But when it comes to abortion, there is no compromise. And whenever discussions between these two groups do occur, the dialogue is entirely polemic and neither side is looking to give anything to the other. I’m sure the Catholic bishops who are loyal to the Church’s teachings are not interested in compromise on this matter.

I didnt have yoy in mind when i wrote this post. and thats why God in the Quran talks about good and bad people of the book . Sadly there isnt much like you .

salam

 

[Booklover]

Booklover;1667385:

Really? Then why does Muhammad make himself his equal when saying that until one loves Allah and his prophet more than anything else he will not have the true faith?
QUOTE]

He didnt make himself equal . You claim he did. He didnt untill you love Allah and the Prophet ‘‘at the same degree of love’’!!!

Stop inventing your own Islam and then condemning it !

meeod

For your information, I did not make it up! Joseph Alison had it in one of his posts,.and you’re not making sense. You’re stating the same thing you’re condemning me for! Muhammad wanted to be loved as Allah was! Why should a mere man, even if he were a “prophet” want to be loved in the same degree as God?

Jesus told us:

Mt. 22 37-40

He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.

Can you see the difference? Jesus put love for God above all other kinds of love, but Muhammad wanted to be loved as much as God!

Again, Muslim logic at its best!

Vickie

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;1667353:

I dont believe any Gospel of Jesus right now exist completely as Jesus said it. There are words and opinionsa here and there and stories from different people. Truth is scattered here and there between them. Thats why God sent Muhammed with the Quran.

.Jesus the speaking baby is only found in this apocrypha which is written in year 400 CE. Which means that Allah is quoting an uninspired writer of the 400 CE .Furthermore, you say Jesus had 1 gospel, yet the fact that Muhammad took from many apocryphal gospels disproves your claim. Lastly, no apocryphal gospel, not one, talks about a Muslim Jesus, the way Muhammad portrayed him. Even the apocrypha work from which he took the talking baby idea, talks about Jesus the Son of God…no matter what gospel you choose, inspired or uninspired, the Muslim Issa simply does not exist.

Regarding the crucifixion, we know the Quranic account. What is the morality behind Allah tricking people into thinking Jesus was crucified when Allah made someone else look like Jesus?

 

[amoxoxoma]

I would hope that some of those who think that Islam is purely evil would read this for a more balanced and catholic point of view:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea4.asp

Muslims Worship the One True God

Only Their ‘Receiving Apparatus’ Is Defective

By Fr. Brian W. Harrison, O.S.

Vatican Council II and Pope John Paul II have taught rightly that in spite of their disbelief in the Incarnation and the Trinity, Muslims cannot justly be classified as idolaters. Allah—nothing other than the Arabic word for God—cannot be equated with Baal, Zeus, Ashtaroth, Krishna, Aphrodite, and the other local, finite, false deities of pagan polytheists. The nature of Islam is more that of a heresy—an offshoot of Christianity and Judaism that retains the basic monotheistic concept of the one true Creator God. In short, although Muslim worship, which includes a flat denial of Christ’s divinity, is not in itself fitting, God-pleasing, or salvific in character, the object of that defective worship—that is, the Being toward whom it is directed—is nevertheless the true God, imperfectly understood, as distinct from a disguised demon or a nonexistent figure of myth or legend.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes Islam is a developped Christian heresy that’s why it is not all evil. It is evil in the sense that Muhammad had the spirit of an anti-Christ…other than that of course it has good teachings otherwise it wouldn’t have adherents

Satan believes in the one True God but misleads …Muhammad as well believed in the one True God but mislead just like any self-imposed prophet who thinks he knows more than God.

 

[Epistemes]

Fr. John Vidmar has this to say of Islam,

“The outstanding doctrinal belief of Islam is that there is only one God. this was held in direct opposition to the prevailing Arabian orthodoxy of the time, which maintained a panoply of ineffective gods–much like Rome’s collection of deities. Muhammed’s belief came in conflict with Meccan shrines (said to number 360) and their accompanying businesses. But this belief also conflicted with Christian orthodoxy, which held for one God, but with the nuance that this was to include Jesus Christ as God. Muhammed did not accept this. For him, Jesus Christ could not be God, simply because God was one and the recognition of Jesus as God implied a dual Godhead. Thus Muhammed allied himself with the Arians, who contended that Christ’s humanity, even though it was a superior type of humanity, was irreconcilable with any claim to divinity. This similarity between Islam and Arianism is not surprising when one realizes that Arianism flourished on the fringes of the Roman Empire–from northern Europe to Arabia, far from the center of power in Rome. Nor is it surprising that the early church regarded Islam as it regarded Arianism–as a Christian heresy–and gave it the name of its founder, “Muhammadism.””

(The Catholic Church Through the Ages: A History, 2005)

 

[Mr_Jullien]

which prophets were killed? I hear this often and I have to admit that I don’t really know how the prophets died, other than Moses and David

Hi Valke2,

Hope this helps.

• [Isaiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Isaiah) - sawn in half by Manasseh
• [ Jeremiah (http://biblia.com/jesusbible/jeremiah7.htm) - stoned to death in Egypt
• [ Amos (http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb32.htm)- The priest of Bethel tortured him and afterwards slew him.
• [ Habakkuk (http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb32.htm)- Stoned in Jerusalem.
• [ Ezekiel (http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb32.htm)- slain in the land of the Chaldeans
• [ Zechariah (http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb32.htm)- Slain by King Joash

There may be more, but these were all I was able to find, so far.

PAX,

Jullien

 

[Booklover]

Here’s another look at Islam:

What is Islam?

Islam is a politically motivated Arab imperialism in the garb of religion. Surprisingly Islam does not possess much spiritualism in a real sense; rather, Islam is a totalitarianism which attempts to control human’s mind and body in its entirety. That is why Islam is widely known as the so called ‘code of life’ which is strictly articulated and governs by the ‘Islamic Shariaah’ the very constitution of Islamic state. Islamic Shariaah was originally formulated by the strict scriptural dictums from Holy Quran (the words of Allah) and Ahadiths (Sunnah of the Prophet). Now, if we do the detail analysis of the Shariaah-based state called Islamic state then clearly we can learn that actually an Islamic state is more dangerous then the all known fascist states of the world. Because, Islam does not have any regard for human life or human freedom; Islam only cares obligation of obeying Allah and His prophet.

A true Islamic Sharriaat or Islamic Hudud laws strictly controls or dictate every single affair of human lives. Islamic Sharraiat or so called Islamic ‘code of life’ is bound to control political, economical, cultural, family-life, business, personal life, sexual life, dress-codes, food habits, etc. etc. That is Islamic code will dictate people—what politics they can do or can not do, what they can eat or can not eat, how to greet or whom they can not greet, how to dress or what they can not dress, when to pray or what not to pray, how to do sex, how to wash their body or face, how to do business, what to produce or not to produce, what man can do or can not do, what women can do or can not do, what to sing or not to sing, what musical instrument can or can not be used, how to cry or not to cry, whom to marry or not marry, what to play or not to play etc. etc. Islamic shariaah-based nation will control almost every affair of citizen lives (from the day of birth until the day of death/grave) by the strict rules prescribed by the Islamic Allah and Prophet Muhammad.

Cont.

 

[Booklover]

cont. What is Islam?

A few examples will clarify this matter more vividly:

Religious practice: Only Islam will be allowed to practice freely and all other religions will be strongly persecuted, discouraged or allowed with very limited privilege. Because Islam does not recognize or respect any other religion on earth (Quran-3:85). Non-Muslims will lead the life of second class citizens and will reside in the country as dhimmitudes.

[Islam divides human race into three main groups: 1. The believers (Muslims-slaves of Allah); 2. The dhimmis (Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Zoroastrians); 3. The kaffirs (all polytheists such as Hindus, animists and atheists). The group-2 is considered dhimmitude and can live with very limited opportunity; but group-3 must either be converted to Islam or be brutally killed]

Coercive imposition of Islamic rituals: Islam is the only religion in which peoples are being forced/coerced to observe Islamic daily rituals. In any Islamic paradise—like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Talibani Afghanistan, or any other Islamic Arab countries—Islamic police (Muttawalli) force general citizens to observe daily rituals very strictly. Anybody who fails to obey is punished by beating severely or even by imprisonment. Even in the moderate Muslim countries like Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia etc. Clergies, general public or the elders will repeatedly remind or even force younger people to join the daily five time prayers/rituals of Islam. Anybody who do not join or refuse to join will be cursed, looked down or insulted by the seniors.

People’s dress: Islam has a special dress code for both men and women. Citizens of any Islamic nation can not choose their own dress at will and they must obey Islamic strict dress code. State will dictate what men can wear and what women can wear. Example: Men will be compelled to keep long beard (giving them billy goat’s appearance) and women will be compelled to wear black burkha, hijab or Nikhab (Quran-33:59—giving them frightening ghostly appearance). Violators will be punished by Islamic beating/lashings or by imprisonment. Anybody from any foreign land convert to Islam also needs to adopt/change his dress according to Islam. A devout Bangladeshi, Chinese or a Burmese convert to Islam will pretend to be a good Muslim by wearing Arab garb or hijab for women, even though his/her own national dress is not at all similar to Arab national dress.

Education: Islamic state will prohibit western style education, i.e. anything that contradicts Islamic dictum will be prohibited. Modern science in general and biological science in particular such as evolution theory will be strictly prohibited. Women will be barred from going outside for education, i.e. women will not be allowed to go to school and college and they will only be allowed to learn about religion (keeping them inside their homes) and how to be obedient and submissive to their husbands.

Working outside/job: Only men will be allowed to work outside and women will not be allowed to work outside. Women will stay at home to serve men and to breed and rear.

cont.