Islam and corruption in the bible

[KathleenGee]

If any Muslims here now retract and say they do not believe the Bible is corrupt, then I am not mad any more.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

If any Muslims here now retract and say they do not believe the Bible is corrupt, then I am not mad any more.

Hypatia actually argued that, either in this thread or the Trinity thread (my mind isn’t working too well right now, so I can’t think straight ). Unfortunately, some of his Muslim peers also commented that the Bible was corrupt shortly thereafter. However, there have been Muslims persay who said there was no corruption.

 

[Nine_Two]

Hypatia actually argued that, either in this thread or the Trinity thread (my mind isn’t working too well right now, so I can’t think straight ). Unfortunately, some of his Muslim peers also commented that the Bible was corrupt shortly thereafter. However, there have been Muslims persay who said there was no corruption.

Hypatia didn’t exactly say it wasn’t corrupt. I believe the comments were to the effect that it lacks spiritual merit.

 

[seraphime2008]

I can’t escape to see Planten were doing the same tragic move:

• using different fonts irritating eyes…gosh…! Don’t u check your sight Planten?
• same tactics of hit and run
• blurred position whether he actually understood what he wrote

Never mind,…it’s same old Planten, never grows!

 

[KathleenGee]

I took a little break to take a peek…now back to my Lenten fast…don’t want to get into other people’s circles again on CAF…if you know what I mean…

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

In the interests of “scientific reseach” many modern English Bible translations are based on bogus versions of Scriptures, and written in paraphrase versions.

Paraphrase and bias translation are not new. In the Protestant liberal theological milieu of the 1600’s the King James Bible translation/paraphrase has many examples of denial not only of the virgin birth, but also of the divinity of Christ and His resurrection.

 

[Seeker]

For proving corruption, it is necessary that we know the original language in which the BibleNT was revealed. And that language should be mentioned in the bible itself. Not some one saying it ws Araimic, Greek, Hebrew.

For example, it is written in the Quran that it is revealed in pure Clear Arabic. It is also written in the Quran itself that the Quran has been revealed from Allah on the heart of Muhammad. That is a news direct from Allah. Catholics will not believe that. So we will not oppress them for that. But the news about language and the prophet (name) is mentioned in the book itself. We do not find any such thing in bibleNT.

It is admitted by Catholics that the bible (gospel) is the work of some disciples only under inspiration. So it is no more a direct word of God. Inspiration (or intuition) is not of the high level of revelation (Wahi).
It is not simply “inspiration” as you are loosely claiming, it is inspiration under the guidance of the Spirit of GOD, who is GOD…but for argument sake, lets say is was just inspiration/intuition as you described it, if that is the case, then how it that the disciples with their “intuition” recorded some of the miracles performed by Jesus as “revealed” by mohammed in the koran, and for that matter claiming mohammed to be the prophet to follow after Jesus, even though we all know that not true… …how is that the case?? Oh and one more thing, you said the koran was revelation and not inspiration, then explain this translated Hadith
Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
Narrated 'Aisha:
(the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle “O Allah’s Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?” Allah’s Apostle replied, “Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of **Inspiration **is the hardest of all and then this state passes ’ off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says.” 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being **inspired **Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the **Inspiration **was over).

If the original language of the bible was known then we would have looked for an original document in that language. It was then possible to find out and to compare the present day copies (Translations) with the original. But there is no original. So there cannot be any comparison to find out which part is altered.
So where is the “original” koran, not the uthmanic version of the koran, but the koranic verses which were written on different sorts of parchments, tablets of stone, branches of date trees, other wood, leaves, leather and even bones, where are all these objects of proof??..

I would not like to use the word “Corruption” in the bible. A better word could be alterations, or amendment and alterations (a’s & a’s). Such things have been going on in the bibleNT for a very long time for an improvement of the sacred book.
haha, i too would not like to use the word “corruption” with regards to the koran, rather “alterations”…remember it is your text that has altered biblical events of Jewish OT and the Christian NT

But does a sacred book need improvement. I mean, even though, it is being done in the translations only, but that is causing much confusion. There are so many versions of the bibles roaming about. No harm to us Muslims. It is harmful to the christians. Due to such deviations in words, many new branches have come out in christianity such as mormons and JW’s.
“deviations in words” cause new branches huh, hmm, can you provide me proof of those “deviated words” that have caused these new branches in Christianity??, and can you tell me what “deviated words” caused the different branches in Islam, i.e. Shia, Sunni, Ahmadiya, Zaidi’s of Yemen, Sufi, Aga Khani (shia), seveners (shia), twelvers (shia), whabbi (sunni), salafi (sunni), hannafi (sunni), shafi (sunni)…etc??..oh and remember there is a prophecy claimed by your prophet that there would be 73 sects, what “deviated words” will cause that prophecy to come true???..on that note there in the same hadith, it says the jews has 71 sects and only 1 will be in heaven, and the Christians have 72 sects and only one will be in heaven, can you tell me who those 71 and 72 sects are in Judaism and Christianity??

 

[dzheremi]

I guess it does no good that I and surely others have posted literally HUNDREDS of times that there is no single “original language” of the Bible. The three languages of the books of the Bible - Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek - are all known, and all still exist in their modern forms (as modern Greek, modern Hebrew, and Assyrian Neo-Aramaic), There is no conspiracy to hide some mythical “original Bible” somewhere that is in one language, contains Christ’s “real” (Islamic?) teachings, etc. That is an Islamic fantasy and a doomed attempt to force Christian and Jewish scriptures into inherently flawed Islamic epistemological models. It will never work.

 

[Seeker]

continuation…

The mormons and JW’s are denied recognition. But they claim to be all for Jesus christ. So how to get rid of them. There is no way.
They are not recognized because they (like you muslims) do not have the Orthodox Christian belief of GOD, like the Catholic, Orthodox and most traditional Protestants/evangelicals…
the same can be said of the Ahamadiyas, correct, they too are denied recognition.
And who wants to get rid of them???..please remember WE live in a country which allows religious pluralism not like some islamic countries, e.g. Saudi

It is dificult to show actual words which have been altered in bible because there is no original. But we have proof from the beliefs in Trinity etc. which shows that there have been serious deflections. I do not know about the original sin theory if it is acceptable to Jews. That could be another major difference.
If you don’t have the proof, then why r u making such accusation???, and why is it difficult, wasn’t original present during mohammed time, I mean be recognized the Torah and Injeel as being the Word of God and their people “People of the Book”, did he not??
Really, can you show me “clear/unambiguous” proof from the koran, Or better yet, in the words of your muslim apologists Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat, show me “**one unequivocal statement **” from the Koran that denies GOD as being ONE in 3 divine Persons- Father, Son and Holy Spirit

Then the news of one man (Jesus) dying for the sins of all mankind could be another major difference.
as apposed to one man who married a 6yrs old and consummated the marriage at 9yrs, claiming to be a “universal” prophet??

Beside those above, there is news of a son of God and a man God etc. Such beliefs tell us that there have been some alterations. God would not teach one thing to Jews and then send a messenger (Jesus) amongst the same people (Jews) trying to teach them quite the opposite of what they had known for centuries.
“Beside those above, there is news of a son of God and a man God etc”, really this is news to me too

This matter cannot be settled unless we bring in the Jews. Because Jesus was all for the Jews, not against them at all. So ask the Jews please about your bibleNT. First take some decision from the Jews and then we may confirm or deny the news given in Quran about bibleNT.
So if we bring in the Jews, will you agree to whatever they say about the NT and the Koran too???, whatever they believe about Jesus and mohammed???

I do not say that bibleNT is corrupted. BibleNt is acceptable to me even in its present form.
To me the koran is not acceptable in its present form, to me the koran is a concocted book of distorted events of early periods, a book with the words of one man or many men who had issues with the Jews and later on with the Christians, this is my personal opinion

 

[Seeker]

I guess it does no good that I and surely others have posted literally HUNDREDS of times that there is no single “original language” of the Bible. The three languages of the books of the Bible - Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek - are all known, and all still exist in their modern forms (as modern Greek, modern Hebrew, and Assyrian Neo-Aramaic), There is no conspiracy to hide some mythical “original Bible” somewhere that is in one language, contains Christ’s “real” (Islamic?) teachings, etc. That is an Islamic fantasy and a doomed attempt to force Christian and Jewish scriptures into inherently flawed Islamic epistemological models. It will never work.

cannot agree with you more dzheremi!!!