Islam and Original Sin

[Khalfan]

Correct. But their sin also deprived them of Original Justice and Holiness. They willingly exchanged this state of being for Original Sin. As a result, their children could no longer inherit Original Justice and Sin, but must inherit Original Sin.

This is a law that even Muslims can’t escape. Lets say a Muslim has earned $1 million dollars. Say this Muslim goes and spends the $1 million dollars until he no longer has any money. Then he gets married and has children and then dies. What will his children inherit. They will certainly not inherit the $1 million that he spent. They will inherit what he has when he dies, but not what he had before.

That analogy is not true since you agreed, they were forgiven of their sin.

We all born in the same holyness as Adam and Eve was.

That disagrees with Catholic Teaching.

But you don’t know how.

Not true. But we have the same potential to sin as they had after the fall.

The question is, where they got the potential to sin?

Islam does not teach what Jesus teaches. The teachings of Jesus are preserved in the Catholic Church.

Which Catholic doctrine does and Islam does not.

Lets compare:

1. You admit that Islam teaches that Allah created man to sin.

In contrast, the Catholic Church teaches that God created man to love and to love Him in return.

That’s a lie. I said we are created with ability to sin as part of our free will just as the ability to love.

1. You admit that Islam that no one else can pay for our sins.

In contrast, The Catholic Church teaches that we can pay for the sins of those we love, just as Jesus paid for our sins because He loves us. That is also why we can pray and intercede for each other.

That is what Bible too say. Read Eze 18. You are supposed ask for forgivness of God as you forgive others. How you forgive others, by asking penalty for his mistake?

1. You admit that Islam teaches that Allah created man imperfect.

In contrast, the Catholic Church teaches that God does not create imperfectly, either by mistake nor by intention. If God would create imperfectly by intent, then He would not be all good and all loving. If He created imperfectly by mistake than He wouldn’t be perfect Himself.

No. I didn’t. I said, we do mistakes. Don’t we?

1. You claim that no Original Sin is taught in Islam. Yet, it is clear from the Quranic text that Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden because of their first sin. This is also how some Muslims understand the text as shown in the reference I presented.

You never read the whole site.

1. Because you claim that Allah created man to sin and therefore imperfectly, I deduce that Allah did not create man out of love. It is unreasonable for God to create something He loves imperfectly by intention.

It’s not imperfection, but our free will of choice to be wicked.

1. Islam does not take into account the expiation of sin through suffering. What Jesus came to show us on the Cross.

Suffering for our sin is our own burden. Not of Jesus (pbuh) or anyone else.

So far as I can see, the Catholic doctrine is far more reasonable than the Islamic doctrine.

But I await your response.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Just think logically and practically.

 

[ozm8]

God gives us the capacity—our place is free will
to worship or to deny!!!
T o turn away and make of a life less or turn torwards and find the life promised]
christ is the one true road, one true road

 

[ozm8]

That analogy is not true since you agreed, they were forgiven of their sin.

But you don’t know how.

The question is, where they got the potential to sin?

That’s a lie. I said we are created with ability to sin as part of our free will just as the ability to love.

That is what Bible too say. Read Eze 18. You are supposed ask for forgivness of God as you forgive others. How you forgive others, by asking penalty for his mistake?

No. I didn’t. I said, we do mistakes. Don’t we?

You never read the whole site.

It’s not imperfection, but our free will of choice to be wicked.

Suffering for our sin is our own burden. Not of Jesus (pbuh) or anyone else.

Just think logically and practically.

the ultimate message of man is to love and be loved

 

[Khalfan]

Before they sinned, they were so innocent that they didn’t even realize that they were naked! Do you understand that??? It was only when they sinned that their eyes were opened and they saw their nakedness and went to cover themselves up! Tell us of any human being who can see another naked human being and not know it?? After they sinned, their innocence was shattered forever. Do you understand now?

Vickie

Was that a sin, getting known of the nakedness? They learned something new. We still learn new things around us.

 

[Khalfan]

Sometimes it takes just a small tap to get a person to understand.
Sometimes you have to throw a pebble at their head to understand.
Sometimes you have to throw a brick at them to actually get the point

Remember, when you point one finger to someone, there are three fingers pointing yourself.

 

[Booklover]

Was that a sin, getting known of the nakedness? They learned something new. We still learn new things around us.

Khalfan, Khalfan! Why didn’t they know they were naked until after they sinned? Can you explain that?

Vickie

 

[Khalfan]

That is partially true. The difference between your explanation and mine is that the Catholic Church teaches that God made man out of love for the purpose of loving and adoring God in return. God did not make man “to sin”.

By saying that you are refuting, they had free will of choice.

If you remember, I said that God made man with free will because God does not now and never has coerced our love or our faith.

So, I did not say the same thing you said.

Free will doesn’t mean love and good qualities only, but opposite qualities as well. That is choices.

Although I have already posted the Catholic Church’s definition of Original Sin. You continue to misrepresent the Catholic Teaching. Are you doing this intentionally?

I’ll repeat, the Catholic Church does not teach that one inherits sin. We inherit the fallen nature which resulted in Adam and Eve after they sinned.

OK. I am talking about that fallen nature. There is no inheritence of fallen nature. We are born as pure as Adam and Eve (pbut) was. They sinned and got forgiven by God, which resulted becoming pure again. Otherwise they were not forgiven.

This is a straw man. Since the Church does not teach this and it is simply your misrepresentation of what the Church teaches.

The Church however, does teach that God made us to serve, love and adore God. This is a clear difference between what you admitted that Allah made man to sin.

You just don’t accept, we have free will and choose to sin as Adam and Eve (pbut) did. right? or can you tell me exactly, what you understand of ‘free will’?

I have to ask you, are you trying to deceive? Did you not read right above those verses you hightlight?

Adam and Eve were instructed not to eat from a certain tree. Satan deceitfully tricked them into disobeying their Lord and as a result:"(God) said:
'Get down (from the Garden), one of you an enemy to the other . On earth will be a dwelling-place for you and an enjoyment – for a short time’. He (God) said:
'Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out .’ "
(Quran 7:24-25).
Adam and Eve were ordered to leave the Garden which they where in and descend to earth where they and their children will live and die, and where Satan will also be.

It is obvious, from a clear reading of the Quranic text, that Allah made Adam and Eve to live in the Garden but ordered them to live on earth in punishment for their sin. It is also clear that is the way that Islamic website understands the Quranic teaching. See the line in bold which you conveniently left out.

According to Islam, Earth is the place where man is supposed to live, not garden. The quoted Quranic verses too agree that.

Do you say, man were created to live in the garden till end of days?

I have read the Quranic account of Adam and Eve in context. I have provided the evidence that an Islamic website understand it the same as I do. I have also proven that the only way you can twist that to your own meaning is by leaving out key texts. The last verses which you posted have nothing to do with the question of Original Sin nor the whether God intended Adam and Eve to live on earth or in Paradise. They simply explain that which the Bible stated centuries before. God’s power of creation is wonderful indeed.

Sincerely,

De Maria

The verses quoted talking about, how God created earth comfortable for man to live, even before creating man. Like, you said before, God is reasonable. God created earth for man to live till end of days. If you read those verses again, this is what you will understand.

 

[Khalfan]

Khalfan, Khalfan! Why didn’t they know they were naked until after they sinned? Can you explain that?

Vickie

Were you ashamed of your nakedness when born? How did you learn about your nakedness? I don’t think you were born with Huggies diaper. Do you? They had to know their nakedness someway at sometime. This is the way they knew it. How did you come to know about your nakedness?

 

[Khalfan]

Yes.

Good. Let’s continue.

This is not the same thing as taking care of our own deeds. The Catholic Church teaches that we must do our best to avoid sin and do good. But the Church also teaches that we must imitate Jesus Christ and just as He suffered and sacrificed to save us we can suffer and sacrifice to save others. It is the called the doctrine of intercession.

The principle is based on the idea that we are members of God’s family. Just as human families help each other out of trouble, we are expected to help our human family out of trouble:

Proverbs 10
12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: and charity covereth all sins.

1 Peter 4

8 But before all things have a constant mutual charity among yourselves: for charity covereth a multitude of sins.

James 5
20 He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

Not quite. The divergence is in the idea that one is alone before Allah. Allah permits no intercessors. Whereas God has always permitted and advised in fact required us to pray and sacrifice for each other.

Sincerely,

De Maria

My dear friend, if Jesus (pbuh) died for sins of all, why all you have to do take care of your deeds? you are contradicting what you said first. It is becasue, our deeds results in our judgement. Judgement is not according to sacrifice of someone for us. If you believed, fulfilled the will of God, then only you are saved. If you never believed, if you never fulfilled the will of God, sacrifice of anyone can’t help you. If you know the lords prayer, (I know you do) how do you ask God to forgive your sins/debts, like you forgive others sin/debts, right? Imagine I have to give you 10 dollars. I coming and telling you, “I am sorry, I lost my job, I need sometime to give you that money” If you say “it’s OK, forget that money, I don’t need it anymore”, I will thank you for your kindness -this is how we forget our debts to each other, right? Now, if you say, “I want to cancel and forgive you of that debt, only if your brother pays it” -you haven’t shown any forgiveness of kindness to me since you got paid your money. Is that how God’s forgivness mean to you?

If God is a forgiver, he don’t need any sacrifice or payment, but honest repentence. Chairty too is to show our repentence, otherwise it is useless.

 

[Khalfan]

This is the most unfortunate Islamic position. God made us all equal. There is no difference between a Catholic or Moslem, black or white, Eskimo or African. Each human being is endowed with the same ability to do good as well as evil.

Yes, God could make us robots to do as he programs us and be in perfect harmony with His Will rather than give us Free Will. Islam declares allah is whimsical in who he helps and who he leads astray. What a sad and dark false-faith is Islam.

And you do expect comment on Christianity as well. right? I am sorry, not interested.

God do choose people for certain things. can you say, NO?

 

[Verisimilitude]

God do choose people for certain things. can you say, NO?

Certainly. God calls us all people to Him, and some to things greater or less than others. I believe He called Mother Teresa to be greater than me, not because I am less worthy, but because she made herself more worthy. God did not make me less capable of such love- the failure to be so is mine.

Only God is Good and only Good comes from God. We were Created Good. Sin and failure is not derived from God but exercised by Man. Evil has no place in God, but men can be evil.

You may well conclude; if all things come from God so too does evil come from God. I do not believe this though I can’t fully explain or understand it, but will offer a suggestion.

Like a poison snake- it in itself is not evil and if I understand it’s nature I can not be harmed by its danger if I act properly and aware of my surroundings. If I taunted it and it bit me, the evil is mine. If am bit by accident because I come upon it unawares, the fault is no ones to include God as we were both living/acting according to our nature which is how we were Created.

If someone else captures that poison snake, mistreates and abuses it and then releases it where people are living- the evil is done by that person and the innocent victims of the snake are blameless. When/if those blameless victims become aware that someone put a angry mistreated snake among them, and then they refuse to rid themselves of that snake but choose to embrace it- the evil that befalls them because of that is their decision- not Gods.

 

[De_Maria]

Have you forgot the condition, “…if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety”?

No. What gave you that impression?

No one is saved till we fufill the will of God and our deeds cannot be judged unless we die.

And God’s will is that we unite our sufferings with the sufferings of His Son. And also that we love one another as He has loved us.

1 Peter 2
19 For this is thankworthy, if for conscience towards God, a man endure sorrows, suffering wrongfully.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Isa 7:20 In that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the River —the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to take off your beards also.

What do you understand in a plain reading from the above verse?

The Catholic Church teaches us not to read verses of Scripture in isolation nor out of context. In addition, the Church teaches tht there are prophetic and spiritual readings as well as literal meanings to the Word of God. This verse follows the famous passage, “Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel (God with us).”

The spiritual meaning of that verse is that Emmanuel, the Saviour of the World will be born of a virgin. This refers to Jesus and even the Quran admits that Jesus was born of a Virgin. If we continue reading prophetically, we understand that God is “shaving” (i.e. preparing) the world for salvation.

Some verses need to be explained.

That is why Jesus Christ established the Church.

Matthew 28
19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

I said, sin is potential in us, becomes reality as result of our free will as Adam and Eve (pbut) did.

Yes, you did. I believe I made the correct distinction between what you said and what I said.

I said, it is and the sin was forgiven.

Yes, you did.
I fail to see how that helps your point.

If the sin was forgiven according to Bible, Adam and Eve (pbut) were supposed to be in the state as they were before eating the fruit. right?

Wrong. On the day they ate the fruit, Adam and Eve committed a mortal sin. They cut themselves off from God’s lifegiving grace and in so doing they introduced themselves and their descendants to the death of the soul. The condition known as Original Sin, which we can contrast to the condition of Original Justice in which they previously existed when God created them in His Image…

This condition of Original Justice, in which God was sustaining them was a gift of God to His children. But they refused His gift and preferred to .recreate themselves in their own image. In order to return to this state of Original Justice, Adam and Eve must willingly unite themselves to God as they had willingly left Him. And they must persevere in this act of will to the end.

But they weren’t according to your teachings. They seperate from God and Jesus (pbuh) had to die on the cross to bring them back. So they weren’t forgiven.

We know that Adam and Eve were forgiven because they are counted among our Saints, even though this information is not in the Bible. If they weren’t forgiven, they wouldn’t be in heaven today.

 

[De_Maria]

My dear,

I think you may be under the false impression that I’m a woman. I’m not.

where he got the ability to introduce sin?

Sin is the disobedience of God. He got it by misusing the Good and Free Will which God gave him.

From God.

No. There is no sin in God.

The ability to sin/ the potential to sin was in him and is in all of us. .

Free will, by definition, gives one the potential to sin. However, God did not create Adam and Eve in order to sin, but in order to share His love with them and to receive their love in return.

I

f he was pure in birth, then sinned, we too are pure in birth and then become sinner if we do

Adam and Eve were innocent at birth and we are innocent at birth. But that is where the similarity ends. We are born in a fallen human nature which is more prone to sin than Adam and Eve.

It is in fact, somewhat of a natural law. Although God does not punish the children for their parents sins, children do suffer for their parents sins. Parents who squander their fortune, pass on poverty to their childrren. Parents with AIDS, pass on the disease to their children. Alcoholic parents raise alcoholic children. This is not God’s doing. This is the sinner’s doing.

Adam and Eve didn’t INHERIT the sin from God, but they got the nature from God as part of free will.

This seems to be a confirmation of the doctrine of Original Sin. So I probably don’t understand what you mean.

Indeed it is so. What is the meaning he gave us the free will, if he just wanted all to love him? God never wanted or expected all to love him, but few of us to love him out of our free will. The others are called as sinners. They do it out of their free will. That too is not a new thing to God. He created us. He knows our capacity and weakness more than us. So he gave us guidence. He offered us his forgiveness and kept the condition, ‘if we repent’. Repenting is the only condition to get forgiven, not sacrifice. Read Ezekiel 18:20-21 with context.

We imitate God. Not Muslims. God has said that the greatest love a man can have is to give up his life for another. This is what God asks of us, sacrifice.

If you are not willing to sacrifice for the one you love, that is your business.

And that is a great difference between Islam and the Catholic Church.

Romans 12
1 I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service.

John 15

13 Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Anyway it is not as the same concept of Christianity,

Correct. There is a grave difference between Christianity and Islam.

God created heaven and earth first, then man.

Correct. That is Catholic Teaching.

After the world perish, our Judgement and the kingdom of heaven forever, where ther is no human life and sinners, problems and prayers. God have nothing to do and will be on holiday forever.

I have no idea what that means.

According to Quran, earth and human creation just one of his many activities. There might have been creations before us and ther will be creations after us according to the nature of God (God knows best).

Neither do I have any idea what that means nor what it has to do with the doctrine of Original Sin.

He could make us to be so, but he didn’t.

Because He gave us free will. He wants us to desire His love. Not to coerce our love.

And what does it have to do with what I said,

It seems that Allah leads people astray. Therefore, Islam does not teach a strict free will. In fact, this is another point of contradiction within the Quran. Some texts teach free will some teach that Allah chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.

None of our deeds can negate God or his holyness?

Cont…

Did I say that our deeds could negate God or His Holiness?

I am not commenting on God or His Holiness but on what I perceive to be errors in Islamic Teaching. In my opinion, this text in the Quran demeans God and His Holiness because it follows through on your statement that Allah made man to sin. Apparently Allah created some men for destruction.

The Catholic Church teaches that God made man out of love.

 

[De_Maria]

Cont…

I don’t understand what this have to do with the question, since you already agreed our deeds are counted.

It has to do with the difference between Islam and Catholicism.

Islam does not permit intercessors.

Catholicism does. Although our deeds are counted, God takes into account the desires of his family and friends towards the sinner. Therefore, a mother may pray that her son to be freed from sin in this life and in the life to come (i.e. Purgatory).

1 Peter 4
8 But before all things have a constant mutual charity among yourselves: for charity covereth a multitude of sins.

 

[De_Maria]

That analogy is not true since you agreed, they were forgiven of their sin.

I disagree. No analogy is perfect but that analogy is very close to the truth.

But you don’t know how.

Yes, I do. Adam and Eve were created in Original Justice and Holiness but we are born into the state of separation from God called Original Sin. In order to restore ourselves to God’s Grace we must enter His family by the Sacrament of Baptism.

The question is, where they got the potential to sin?

The potential comes with free will.

It seems you want to negate God’s Holiness. But God giving Adam and Eve free will and thus permitting them the potential to sin is an act of pure love and holiness. This is, in fact, why religion is not coerced. In order for Adam and Eve to love God freely, Adam and Eve had to have the right to say no to God.

That’s a lie. I said we are created with ability to sin as part of our free will just as the ability to love.

This is exactly what you said, in message #14 page 1, I will highlight in bold the key words.

SIN is a potential in human nature. It results from our free will and choice. God created Adam with the potential to sin. If God doesn’t wanted sin ever to happen, ever to exist, why he made man to be able to sin? Becasue he wanted us to sin…

If you want to clarify what you meant, please do so.

That is what Bible too say. Read Eze 18. You are supposed ask for forgivness of God as you forgive others. How you forgive others, by asking penalty for his mistake?

By making reparation in his name:

Job 1
5 And when the days of their feasting were gone about, Job sent to them, and sanctified them: and rising up early offered holocausts for every one of them. For he said: Lest perhaps my sons have sinned, and have blessed God in their hearts. So did Job all days.

2 Machabees 12

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

No. I didn’t. I said, we do mistakes. Don’t we?

This is the same clarification as above.

You never read the whole site.

I read enough to prove you wrong.

It’s not imperfection, but our free will of choice to be wicked.

Again, this is the same clarification as above. If Allah created man so that they would sin, then Allah created man imperfectly intentionally. Therefore Allah introduced imperfection into man’s nature.

In contrast, God created man perfectly so that they would remain perfect if they so willed. Man introduced imperfection into his own nature.

Suffering for our sin is our own burden. Not of Jesus (pbuh) or anyone else.

Jesus took this burden on Himself because He loves us. How many parents pick up their children when their children can no longer walk? How many pick up their children’s burdens when their children can no longer carry them? Why do they do it?

Out of love. This s the lesson that is lost in Islam.

Just think logically and practically.

It is the most logical and practical of all thoughts. Love makes the world go round. The basic unit of society is the family. That is why God made His Church in the structure of a family. We are the family of God:

**854 **By her very mission, “the Church . . . travels the same journey as all humanity and shares the same earthly lot with the world: she is to be a leaven and, as it were, the soul of human society in its renewal by Christ and transformation into the family of God.” Missionary endeavor requires patience. It begins with the proclamation of the Gospel to peoples and groups who do not yet believe in Christ, continues with the establishment of Christian communities that are “a sign of God’s presence in the world,” and leads to the foundation of local churches. It must involve a process of inculturation if the Gospel is to take flesh in each people’s culture. There will be times of defeat. “With regard to individuals, groups, and peoples it is only by degrees that [the Church] touches and penetrates them and so receives them into a fullness which is Catholic.”
scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#854

 

[De_Maria]

By saying that you are refuting, they had free will of choice.

No. Love can’t be coerced. If one does not have free will one can’t truly love.

Free will doesn’t mean love and good qualities only, but opposite qualities as well. That is choices.

That is exactly the point.

OK. I am talking about that fallen nature. There is no inheritence of fallen nature. We are born as pure as Adam and Eve (pbut) was. They sinned and got forgiven by God, which resulted becoming pure again. Otherwise they were not forgiven.

Exactly, you deny the idea of a fallen nature. Therefore you have no explanation of the existence of suffering, disease and death in humanity.

You see, according to Catholic Teaching, Adam and Eve were immune to these things before the Fall.

You just don’t accept, we have free will and choose to sin as Adam and Eve (pbut) did. right?

Not as Adam and Eve. Our sins come more naturally to us because we have a weakened will and a weakened nature.

or can you tell me exactly, what you understand of ‘free will’?

The right to choose between right and wrong.

According to Islam, Earth is the place where man is supposed to live, not garden. The quoted Quranic verses too agree that.

Sorry, but the plain text disagrees with you and so does the explanation offered by that website.

If, in another text, the Quran contradicts itself, that is another story.

Do you say, man were created to live in the garden till end of days?

The quick answer is, “yes.”

But again, there are many layers of understanding to the Scriptures. In Catholic Teaching, the Garden is not necessarily a physical garden. If we understand the Liturgical language of Genesis 2, we see that the Garden rrepresents “union with God”. And yes, the man was made to always be united with God.

The verses quoted talking about, how God created earth comfortable for man to live, even before creating man. Like, you said before, God is reasonable. God created earth for man to live till end of days. If you read those verses again, this is what you will understand.

And yet the earth is not comfortable for man. The deserts are too hot and dry, the poles too cold. Therefore, Catholic Theology explains the experience of man better than Islam.

 

[De_Maria]

Good. Let’s continue.

My dear friend, if Jesus (pbuh) died for sins of all, why all you have to do take care of your deeds?

This is a great example that Muslims do not understand the teachings of Christ.

Christ died that we might live. And we live by believing in Him, by accepting His sacrifice in our behalf, uniting ourselves to His sacrifice and thus imitating Him.

Galatians 2
20 And I live, now not I; but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered himself for me.

you are contradicting what you said first.

No.

It is becasue, our deeds results in our judgement. Judgement is not according to sacrifice of someone for us. If you believed, fulfilled the will of God, then only you are saved. If you never believed, if you never fulfilled the will of God, sacrifice of anyone can’t help you.

This is very simply a foolish Quranic contradiction. If Mohammed does not believe that one man may affect the salvation of another, why did he take upon himself the task of warner? Why did he preach that Muslims should fight and protect each other? Why preach that men must pay alms for the poor, isn’t that one of your pillars?

In contrast, the Catholic Church recognizes that just as we can help people physically, we can help them spiritually. That is a simple truth which is denied by Islam and embraced by the Catholic Church.

If you know the lords prayer, (I know you do) how do you ask God to forgive your sins/debts, like you forgive others sin/debts, right? Imagine I have to give you 10 dollars. I coming and telling you, “I am sorry, I lost my job, I need sometime to give you that money” If you say “it’s OK, forget that money, I don’t need it anymore”, I will thank you for your kindness -this is how we forget our debts to each other, right? Now, if you say, “I want to cancel and forgive you of that debt, only if your brother pays it” -you haven’t shown any forgiveness of kindness to me since you got paid your money. Is that how God’s forgivness mean to you?

Lets look at it the other way around. Lets say that your son breaks your neighbors window. He comes to you and says, “Father forgive me, I wrecked your neighbor’s window and I know this could cause problems with our families…”

You say, “sure son, I forgive you, but have you asked our neighbor to forgive you.”

“I have Father but he says if I am sincere, I must pay for the window.”

And you say, “Find out how much he wants for the window, I will pay for it.”

If God is a forgiver, he don’t need any sacrifice or payment, but honest repentence. Chairty too is to show our repentence, otherwise it is useless.

God does forgive those who repent with sincerity of heart. If we truly repent, we won’t shirk our duty to pay for what we have done wrong. One of your compatriots provided the following list required of repentance in Islam (See message #4 page 1). See the highlighted item, #4 below:

• 1. Leaving the sin;

1. Remorse over having committed the sin;
2. Resolve never to return to the sin;
   ** 4. (If it relates to the rights of another person, then to) Return the rights or property one wrongly took.** [al-Bariqa fi Sharh al-Tariqa; Riyad al-Salihin]*

Therefore, according to him, Islam also requires reparation for sin before it is forgiven.

 

[Khalfan]

Certainly. God calls us all people to Him, and some to things greater or less than others. I believe He called Mother Teresa to be greater than me, not because I am less worthy, but because she made herself more worthy. God did not make me less capable of such love- the failure to be so is mine.

Only God is Good and only Good comes from God. We were Created Good. Sin and failure is not derived from God but exercised by Man. Evil has no place in God, but men can be evil.

You may well conclude; if all things come from God so too does evil come from God. I do not believe this though I can’t fully explain or understand it, but will offer a suggestion.

Like a poison snake- it in itself is not evil and if I understand it’s nature I can not be harmed by its danger if I act properly and aware of my surroundings. If I taunted it and it bit me, the evil is mine. If am bit by accident because I come upon it unawares, the fault is no ones to include God as we were both living/acting according to our nature which is how we were Created.

If someone else captures that poison snake, mistreates and abuses it and then releases it where people are living- the evil is done by that person and the innocent victims of the snake are blameless. When/if those blameless victims become aware that someone put a angry mistreated snake among them, and then they refuse to rid themselves of that snake but choose to embrace it- the evil that befalls them because of that is their decision- not Gods.

Can anyone become a prophet by his or her own will and deeds?

Check Deuteronomy 7:6. Exodus 29:45-46. Was it their will or God’s, to choose them?

 

[dolphinlove]

Can anyone become a prophet by his or her own will and deeds?

Check Deuteronomy 7:6. Exodus 29:45-46. Was it their will or God’s, to choose them?

Im sure someone has given you the answer to this before…

 

[Montalban]

Can anyone become a prophet by his or her own will and deeds?

Do you mean aside from the *swim-suit *component? I think it was popular vote, a 1-800 number phone in