Islam and porc

[inJESUS]

Among all the dietary prohibitions that Jews have to follow, why do Muslims pick only porc? can’t Muslims eat rabbits and camels when this is prohibited in the Mosaic Law?can’t they drink camel milk when this is prohibited in the Mosaic Law? can’t Muslims mix meat with dairy products when this is prohibited in the Mosaic Law/? lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden in the Mosaic law; don’t muslims eat them? so why do they not follow all the Mosaic Law ? why did Muhammad change it? what is the theological reason behind some of the restrictions Muhammad changed, if there is any?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Among all the dietary prohibitions that Jews have to follow, why do Muslims pick only porc? can’t Muslims eat rabbits and camels when this is prohibited in the Mosaic Law?can’t they drink camel milk when this is prohibited in the Mosaic Law? can’t Muslims mix meat with dairy products when this is prohibited in the Mosaic Law/? lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden in the Mosaic law; don’t muslims eat them? so why do they not follow all the Mosaic Law ? why did Muhammad change it? what is the theological reason behind some of the restrictions Muhammad changed, if there is any?

It isn’t just Pork, Muslims may not eat products containing blood, or made with the flesh of carnivorous/omnivorous animals (of which pigs are one).

 

[inJESUS]

It isn’t just Pork, Muslims may not eat products containing blood, or made with the flesh of carnivorous/omnivorous animals (of which pigs are one).

yes sorry i didn’t mean to imply that it’s only pork but rather that they do not follow most of the Mosaic Law restrictions and i wanted to know the theological reasons behind these things.

 

[LDNCatholic]

yes sorry i didn’t mean to imply that it’s only pork but rather that they do not follow most of the Mosaic Law restrictions and i wanted to know the theological reasons behind these things.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood. Well, I’m no expert but at a guess it could be because they believe Islam to be the original religion rather than the fulfilment of Judaism, so rather than Muslims ignoring Jewish Law, the Jews have corrupted the original religion (which they believe is Islam). Hopefully one of our Muslim posters will enlighten us.

 

[inJESUS]

I really hope this is not in the list of possible answers.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I really hope this is not in the list of possible answers.

Sorry? Whys that? Didn’t mean to offend you if thats whats happened

 

[inJESUS]

Sorry? Whys that? Didn’t mean to offend you if thats whats happened

LOL not at all . I just meant that the same corruption mantra is used all the time for anything (the solution key to any dilema so to speak) but i hope it won’t be repeated in this case again…it’d really be more absurd than other corruption and conspiracy theory mantras.

 

[Hellisreal]

I really hope this is not in the list of possible answers.

I agree. There is no proof Islam existed until when? Muhammed was born when??

If they say Judaism was corrupted, on what basis do they make this claim?

 

[LDNCatholic]

LOL not at all . I just meant that the same corruption mantra is used all the time for anything (the solution key to any dilema so to speak) but i hope it won’t be repeated in this case again…it’d really be more absurd than other corruption and conspiracy theory mantras.

Ah, well I’m just glad I haven’t offended anyone (been doing that a lot lately lol) Time will tell whther the same argument will be brought up again.

 

[inJESUS]

I agree. There is no proof Islam existed until when? Muhammed was born when??

If they say Judaism was corrupted, on what basis do they make this claim?

based on Muhammad’s word. Whatever contradicts him is corrupt. History and logic are out of question

The problem is why would Jews corrupt a dietary law? it doesn’t make sense that’s why i hope no response will be about this point cuz the thread will turn to absurdities.

 

[Hellisreal]

based on Muhammad’s word. Whatever contradicts him is corrupt. History and logic are out of question

The problem is why would Jews corrupt a dietary law? it doesn’t make sense that’s why i hope no response will be about this point cuz the thread will turn to absurdities.

The Jewish people would not corrupt a dietary law.

I am curious to see the Islamic proof of this charge.

 

[famdigy]

Dear inJesus,

Muslims don’t just abstain from pork:

Terrestrial Animals
among the domestic animals only goats, sheep, cow and camel are Halaal (permissible to eat) while flesh of horse, donkey and mule is detestable (Makruh), other than these six animals all domestic animals are forbidden to eat (haraam).

Animals having claws are considered Haraam and hoofed animals are mostly considered Halaal though some are considered as Makruh (unpleasant) such as Horse, *** etc. Birds that flap their wings more and glide less while flying are Halaal and those who glide more and flap their wings less are Haraam.

Birds
Birds like pigeon and all its kind are Halaal.
Bat, peacocks who have webbed feet or birds strong enough which can tear apart animal; or hunting birds, like Charkh (one kind of bird) Eagle, Shaheen, Baashiq (which is also called as Baahsaa) or a weak bird like Vulture or crow and its kind should be avoided. There are others that have been made permissible or forbidden. As a general rule any bird that has not been explicitly forbidden we can apply the following “Birds that flap their wings more and glide less while flying are Halaal and those who glide more and flap their wings less are Haraam.” such as chicken, or turkey.

Aquatic Animals
As regards aquatic animals, only those fishes are Halaal which have scales

Every animal that dies without the proper religious procedure is forbidden. If it has warm blood then it would also be Najis (ritually impure) Islamic Jurisprudence has specified and discussed in detail and prescribed the animals whose flesh is allowed.

more resources on the subject: al-islam.org/laws/hunting.html#2633

 

[dolphinlove]

Was halal introduced around the time of Mahammed?
I think i heard someone say halal wasnt introduced until 300+?

 

[inJESUS]

Dear inJesus,

Muslims don’t just abstain from pork:

]

Hello famdigy,
yes i know it’s not only about pork. Maybe i wasn’t clear in my OP. I wanted to know why is the difference in the dietary law between Jews and Muslims? why is pork a no but camel and rabbits and shrimps a yes when all these 3 are haram in the Mosaic Law? 1-what is the theological reason behind restriction on food and 2- what is the theological reason for God to say no about certain foods in the past and then say yes later?

 

[inJESUS]

Was halal introduced around the time of Mahammed?
I think i heard someone say halal wasnt introduced until 300+?

the mentioning of halal and haram is found in a broad sense in the Quran. The details they bring are maybe in the hadith, not Quran.

There is nothing that was “introduced” by Muhammad regarding the rituals like halal/haram, prayer during the day, praying over the dead, turning round the kaaba, ramadan ecc. All these were practiced before Muhammad. Having met Jews and Jewish-Christian sects, he must have known about the food diet.

What i don;t understand is why does Muhammad say pork is no while camel is yes when we read:
The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you."’" Leviticus 11:1-4

or

However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the **camel, the rabbit **or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you." Deuteronomy 14:3-7

why did Muhammad pick only pork among the same category of prohibitions? why was it a no to God but a yes to Allah?

Lawful to you is all water-game, and what the sea brings forth, as a provision for you [who are settled] as well as for travellers, although you are forbidden to hunt on land while you are in the state of pilgrimage. And be conscious of God, unto whom you shall be gathered. S. 5:96

but the Mosaic Law prohibits many of them.

Under the Messianic Covenant God declared all food clean . No more ceremonial clean or unclean since all ceremonies were fulfiled and all food are clean. Why then, would Muhammad reverse the Messianic covenant, bring back the rituals of an old covenant yet this time picking and choosing? I don’t understand why this change, why this picking and choosing and what are its theological implications.

 

[hamba2han]

This topic is a clear illustration of why Muslims are so confused about the mindset of Christians.

I mean, you KNOW from your own scriptures that Jesus (pbuh) religiously abstained from consuming pork all of his life.

Why then do Christians love and insist on eating pork?

If indeed you say that it was Paul who said that it was OK to do so, then should not pork-eaters call themselves ‘Paulians’ instead of Christians?

Don’t you think that this is a far greater issue for Christians to resolve than wondering about why Muslims do not eat pork?

 

[PapaSquash]

The point is that Jesus also abstained from camel, and Muslims do not.

The questions is not “Why do Muslims abstain from pork?”

The question is: “Why don’t Muslims keep kosher?”

 

[famdigy]

What i don;t understand is why does Muhammad say pork is no while camel is yes when we read:
The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you."’" Leviticus 11:1-4

hi InJesus, I don’t know the true answer as to why they is a difference between the two dietary laws.

If I had to guess (and I could be wrong about this) I would say that since Muslims believe the Torah and Gospel we have today are not the original Torah and Gospel revealed by God, it is likely the dietary laws were also corrupted.
the arabic word for this in the Quran is “tahreef” which includes changing both the meaning of something (its interpretation) and or its text.
dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2MM.asp?Lang=E-A&Sub=%ca%cd%d1%ed%dd

The other possibility is that the dietary laws or a subset of them were only applicable to a group of people and not the entire world.
That is because the prophets are of two types, global prophets who were sent for the entire world and local prophets who were sent for their people only. I believe Moses (a) was a local prophet sent to the children of Israel whereas Abraham (a) was a global prophet. One example of this is sabbath, in the Quran the sabbath was a test from God ordering the people not to fish or consume fish on saturday. When they broke the command not to fish on that day the punishment of God came down on them, in that case it was a test from God for that particular group and was not intended as a law for all of humanity.

 

[Kadaveri]

If any Muslims are claiming the reason Jews have stricter dietary laws is because they corrupted them, they are plain wrong. There’s nothing in the Qur’an or Prophetic sayings that would support such a conclusion.

But to answer, it’s because not all laws are given for the same reasons. The Children of Israel were given very strict dietary laws because they were the people chosen for God’s Kingdom so long as they kept to their covenant, they were the *unique *Godly community. Thus, to differentiate and to set an example to the surrounding peoples, they were given hundreds of laws to keep to this end (this is the standard explanation you’ll get from most Orthodox Jews when asked why do you keep such-and-such law).

But with the Muslims under Muhammad (pbuh) the case is different. They were not the only people who had accepted their Prophet(s) on a wide scale as the Jews (and Christians, to a degree) had already done so, thus this aspect wasn’t anything original. So such dietary laws whose purpose was to emphasise the Children of Israel as the unique Godly community such as not eating lobster are no longer necessary. However that doesn’t mean all dietary restrictions need to be removed (as Christians now do), and laws such as not eating pork, meat stained with blood or meat killed by another animal which still serve the purpose of healthier eating and avoiding food poisoning remain.

Peace.

 

[Booklover]

This topic is a clear illustration of why Muslims are so confused about the mindset of Christians.

I mean, you KNOW from your own scriptures that Jesus (pbuh) religiously abstained from consuming pork all of his life.

Why then do Christians love and insist on eating pork?

If indeed you say that it was Paul who said that it was OK to do so, then should not pork-eaters call themselves ‘Paulians’ instead of Christians?

Don’t you think that this is a far greater issue for Christians to resolve than wondering about why Muslims do not eat pork?

Mark 7, 18-23

Do you not realize that everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile, since it enters not the heart but the stomach and passes out into the latrine? (Thus he declared all foods clean.) "But what comes out of a person, that is what defiles. From within people, from their hearts, come evil thoughts, unchastity, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly. All these evils come from within and they defile.

Does this finally answer your question??

Vickie